Lower Brain Aromatase

lampofred

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I think thyroid, coffee, aspirin, niacinamide, red light, progesterone, especially tobacco, will all do this. But is there any thing else that is powerful?

Probably environmental enrichment but what does that even mean? "Enriched" environment is always relative, so just avoiding boredom/maximizing exhilaration??
 

ShotTrue

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Why do you need to lower brain aromatase?
I imagine you could have too low aromatase in the brain. Sounds like you are looking for more androgens or dopamine
 

MatheusPN

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BCAA, adamantane and most 5 ar androgens will do powerfully

Sunlight, be more undisturbed unperturbed, unshaken or impassible

Alive, in an philharmonic orchestra playing Beethoven or Wagner
 

MatheusPN

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I'm not sure you'd want to lower it much. The aromatase in your brain is definitely performing vital functions:

Neuroprotection by the steroids pregnenolone and dehydroepiandrosterone is mediated by the enzyme aromatase. - PubMed - NCBI
I only read the abstract, they used fadrozole as the AI, so maybe fadrozole is neuroharmful as an side effect. Also some AI have some estrogenic effects, *zoles are some I don't like
Lots of things that are anti-estrogenic are very know to be neuroprotective, like progesterone, DHT, androsterone etc
 

Goobz

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I only read the abstract, they used fadrozole as the AI, so maybe fadrozole is neuroharmful as an side effect. Also some AI have some estrogenic effect, *zoles are some I don't like
Lots of things that are anti-estrogenic are very know to be neuroprotective, like progesterone, DHT, androsterone etc

Of course. But I would argue some of those hormones are neuroprotective in their own action first, and anti estrogenic later. E.g. progesterone is meant to cycle in opposition with estrogen, and hence it lowers estrogen because it is performing it's own function in the brain. But both hormones appear to be neuroprotective. There was a study showing supplemental estradiol helped stroke recovery, and supplemental progesterone helped stroke recovery, but both of them given together cancelled out the effect.

This is obviously a topic on which I disagree with the majority of "Peaters". I believe both estradiol and progesterone are critical for brain function, and one shouldn't be artificially lowered.
 

MatheusPN

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Of course. But I would argue some of those hormones are neuroprotective in their own action first, and anti estrogenic later. E.g. progesterone is meant to cycle in opposition with estrogen, and hence it lowers estrogen because it is performing it's own function in the brain. But both hormones appear to be neuroprotective. There was a study showing supplemental estradiol helped stroke recovery, and supplemental progesterone helped stroke recovery, but both of them given together cancelled out the effect.

This is obviously a topic on which I disagree with the majority of "Peaters". I believe both estradiol and progesterone are critical for brain function, and one shouldn't be artificially lowered.
Estrogen promotes proliferation, if not opposed prometes cancer, short bursts are good for repair
Estrogen has its good functions, people who know Peat work, knows that
Have more to be said about that...
Also lots of things which are know to be estrogenic are neuroharmful: BPA, toxic things, PUFA etc
 
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Cirion

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Don't eat tryptophan, add gelatin to your diet.

For supplements, though I'm not a big supplement person anymore, bcaa or some other amino's can be helpful, but not really needed if you avoid eating tryptophan in the first place.
 
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lampofred

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Don't eat tryptophan, add gelatin to your diet.

For supplements, though I'm not a big supplement person anymore, bcaa or some other amino's can be helpful, but not really needed if you avoid eating tryptophan in the first place.

What brand of gelatin do you use? I stopped eating gelatin after I heard there's a good chance it's contaminated with heavy metals and glyphosate. I'm sure I already have toxic levels of glyphosate in my system...
 

Cirion

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What brand of gelatin do you use? I stopped eating gelatin after I heard there's a good chance it's contaminated with heavy metals and glyphosate. I'm sure I already have toxic levels of glyphosate in my system...

Meh, I stopped worrying about things like that. The fact is I am sure there is some level of contamination in almost everything we eat, so its best not to worry about it lol. I just do the best I can, track my body temp/weight change/pulse/all that good stuff and adjust as needed. Anyway, to answer the question, I just use the NOW brand as its one of the cheaper brands and it seems fine to me. Even if you can't eat gelatin for whatever reason, avoiding tryptophan is actually more important than eating gelatin (IMO), as gelatin is not enough to counteract tryptophan in my experience. At least not a diet high in tryptophan. So, personally, my first strategy would be to avoid tryptophan. At least for me, I often feel the negative effects at very low dose, even less than 1 gram in a day. I have actually been trying to push down to like half a gram a day of tryptophan. Tryptophan is like PUFA - the lower the better. Full on depletion even better.
 
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lampofred

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Meh, I stopped worrying about things like that. The fact is I am sure there is some level of contamination in almost everything we eat, so its best not to worry about it lol. I just do the best I can, track my body temp/weight change/pulse/all that good stuff and adjust as needed. Anyway, to answer the question, I just use the NOW brand as its one of the cheaper brands and it seems fine to me. Even if you can't eat gelatin for whatever reason, avoiding tryptophan is actually more important than eating gelatin (IMO), as gelatin is not enough to counteract tryptophan in my experience. At least not a diet high in tryptophan. So, personally, my first strategy would be to avoid tryptophan. At least for me, I often feel the negative effects at very low dose, even less than 1 gram in a day. I have actually been trying to push down to like half a gram a day of tryptophan. Tryptophan is like PUFA - the lower the better. Full on depletion even better.

But if you don't eat tryptophan you won't produce niacin, which is literally the energy currency of the body.

And apparently glycine is supposed to be very anti-serotonergic (both because of the amino acid itself and because its GABA-like effects, which would inhibit serotonin neurons), so maybe the reason gelatin isn't having anti-serotonin effects for you is that the gelatin you are eating is highly contaminated?

Just trying to play Devil's Advocate, not saying anything you are doing is wrong.
 

Cirion

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But if you don't eat tryptophan you won't produce niacin, which is literally the energy currency of the body.

And apparently glycine is supposed to be very anti-serotonergic (both because of the amino acid itself and because its GABA-like effects, which would inhibit serotonin neurons), so maybe the reason gelatin isn't having anti-serotonin effects for you is that the gelatin you are eating is highly contaminated?

Just trying to play Devil's Advocate, not saying anything you are doing is wrong.

I don't convert tryptophan to niacin anyway so it's no skin off my back. This is probably more of a question for Haidut, but I am pretty sure you do not need tryptophan for anything except perhaps very very low dose, much like some PUFA are supposedly "essential". Anyway, you can get niacin from food anyway, and there are (probably, I admit I don't know the biology) other pathways to make niacin.

Run the math - Gelatin will not bring down fernstrom ratio very far. I am a bit lazy to make up an example at the moment with actual numbers, but just to give you an idea, Gelatin can and does bring it down, but it may bring it down from say a 0.06 to a 0.05. I consider anything about 0.03-0.035 or higher to be unacceptable at this point and lately I have been pushing for as low as 0.02-0.025. So, gelatin won't bring you from a high value to a sufficiently low value, so it's best to avoid the offending foods in the first place. You can get to like 0.025-0.030 even without gelatin.

In addition, my data collection seems to point towards not only fernstrom ratio being low but total tryptophan also being low. Much like how you want a high SFA/PUFA ratio, but also low total PUFA intake.

Just for fun

upload_2019-5-26_15-22-34.png


These are my top 10 tryptophan intake days in my datset. every single point results in weight neutral to weight gained. That is simply not a coincidence.

Same deal for Protein intake times Fernstrom ratio

upload_2019-5-26_15-33-48.png


Tryptophan is no joke.
It really can mess you up.
 
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Goobz

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Estrogen promotes proliferation, if not opposed prometes cancer, short bursts are good for repair
Estrogen has its good functions, people who know Peat work, knows that
Have more to be said about that...
Also lots of things which are know to be estrogenic are neuroharmful: BPA, toxic things, PUFA etc

Yes, and lot's of anti estrogens are harmful neurologically as well. The most common one, glyphosate, is an aromatase inhibitor, and linked with a multitude of neurological problems.

Anything messing around with something as ubiquitous as the estrogen receptor is going to cause problems, whether blocking it or stimulating it.

Testosterone's benefits on the brain have been shown to be largely mediated through its conversion to estradiol. The hippocampus, critical to memory, is one of the most aromatase rich areas of the brain. It's no surprise that anti estrogenic drugs dramatically lower people's cognitive ability at best, and cause severe neurological disease at worst.

I won't go into it further here, but suffice to say that the idea that lowering estrogen will help your brain is IMO... at best, very misguided.

To the niacin point - yes as mentioned above, you don't need to get niacin from tryptophan, you can get it directly in the diet etc. Getting it from tryptophan involves the kynurenine pathway, which when chronically activated seems to cause neurological disease. Drugs that inhibit the main enzyme involved in this (TDO inhibitors) are a new target for treating neurodegenerative disease such as dementia, parkinsons, ALS.

And guess what the endogenous hormonal inhibitor of the TDO enzyme is in humans? Estradiol! Niacinamide seems to be another one.

This also seems to explain why women may require more dietary niacin - they aren't salvaging it from tryptophan as effectively.
 
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MatheusPN

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Yes, and lot's of anti estrogens are harmful neurologically as well. The most common one, glyphosate, is an aromatase inhibitor, and linked with a multitude of neurological problems.

Anything messing around with something as ubiquitous as the estrogen receptor is going to cause problems, whether blocking it or stimulating it.

Testosterone's benefits on the brain have been shown to be largely mediated through its conversion to estradiol. The hippocampus, critical to memory, is one of the most aromatase rich areas of the brain. It's no surprise that anti estrogenic drugs dramatically lower people's cognitive ability at best, and cause severe neurological disease at worst.

I won't go into it further here, but suffice to say that the idea that lowering estrogen will help your brain is IMO... at best, very misguided.
.
What natural human hormone, that is estrogenic and isn’t known to be neuroharmful, cancerous, toxic etc? Estrogen in excess or estrogenic compounds in excess cause hypothyroid
You could say that SARMs can be unhealthy, guess what? Things like tamoxifen are estrogenic, “Anti Estrogens” Are Estrogenic
Anything messing around with something as ubiquitous as estrogen, if antagonized, is know to treat cancer
Estrogen Or Anti-androgen Therapy Shrinks Brain And Destroys Grey Matter

Glyphosate is estrogenic, Thongprakaisang et al., 2013 (C, P, R)
Glyphosate induces human breast cancer cells growth via estrogen receptors - ScienceDirect

Ray talks a lot about the ideal level of progesterone/ estrogen, he has a lot of high-quality evidence in that respect. And yes, again: Estrogen promotes proliferation, if not opposed promotes cancer, short bursts are good for repair. Estrogen has its good functions, people who know Peat work, knows that
 

MatheusPN

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Yeah, a good study in knockout mouse, to show some roles of estrogen
Thanks Amazoniac for:
Ray in Nutrition for Women said:
Estrogen is the hormone for beginnings, a sort of biochemical eraser which can eliminate recently recorded information, restoring the underlying primitive capacity for growth. When we are threatened, by injury or aging, we need the capacity for renewal of cells.
Estrogen Activates Habitual Memory, Progesterone Spatial Memory
Estrogen Impairs Memory In Women
Both in humans. To clarify my thoughts estrogen isn't a dispensable, needless hormone for an okay condition
 
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Goobz

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What natural human hormone, that is estrogenic and isn’t known to be neuroharmful, cancerous, toxic etc? Estrogen in excess or estrogenic compounds in excess cause hypothyroid

Estradiol. Estradiol is not harmful to the brain, in its natural state. That means for men as testosterone --> estradiol. It's critical for brain function. That's why I think lowering it is almost always a bad idea.

It's necessary to protect the basal ganglia and dopaminergic neurons in particular, and an absence of estrogen leads to parkinsonian problems quite quickly. Estradiol alone administered to a man with Parkinsons lead to symptomatic improvement. On a list of MJF Foundation's most promising areas for cures for Parkinsons - the top of the list is estrogen, the second one is resveratrol (a phytoestrogen). They are looking for drugs which mimic estrogens actions, but "aren't feminising." The most effective substance they've found so far for dissolving the A-syn aggregates is estriol (E3).

This makes sense when you see the epidemiology of PD and the other "synucleopathies" - they affect far more men than women, and seem to almost never effect pre menopausal women.

You could say that SARMs can be unhealthy, guess what? Things like tamoxifen are estrogenic, “Anti Estrogens” Are Estrogenic

I'm glad you mention that tamoxifen causes brain damage. It does this by blocking estrogen in the brain. It is a selective estrogen receptor modulator, and it's "estrogenic" effects are on some selective tissues such as the bones.

I commented about this on the thread you linked to there, if you read it. The poster seemed to be confused about how a SERM worked. Of course they are both estrogenic and anti estrogenic. Thats the point, it depends on the tissue. In the brain though, it lowers estrogen.

And aromatase inhibitors (which unlike SERMs have no estrogenic action at all) have been shown to cause a greater cognitive decline than SERMs.

Anything messing around with something as ubiquitous as estrogen, if antagonized, is know to treat cancer
Estrogen Or Anti-androgen Therapy Shrinks Brain And Destroys Grey Matter

That study showed that estrogen + progestin caused brain shrinkage. That's going to be due to the fact they used a synthetic progesterone mimic. These are known to cause brain problems on their own!

And even if it was progesterone (which it definitely wasn't!), as i posted above, giving both progesterone and estrogen at the same time, instead of cycling them as happens naturally, has been shown to cancel out the benefits of both in some studies.

And taking estrogen orally is unnatural and probably unhelpful - it gets largely converted to estrone (E1) in the liver, which causes excess clotting and other problems. The studies on transdermal / bioidentical are far more positive.

Glyphosate is estrogenic
Thank you for sharing this - I wasn't aware of this. I've also read that glyphosate is an aromatase inhibitor, so ill have to read it later to try make sense of it all. But it makes sense, as many such toxins seem to muck around with estrogen receptors, both blocking and in this case overstimulating them (5-11 times the normal activation, I saw when glancing at it).

, Thongprakaisang et al., 2013 (C, P, R)
Glyphosate induces human breast cancer cells growth via estrogen receptors - ScienceDirect

Ray talks a lot about the ideal level of progesterone/ estrogen, he has a lot of high-quality evidence in that respect. And yes, again: Estrogen promotes proliferation, if not opposed promotes cancer, short bursts are good for repair. Estrogen has its good functions, people who know Peat work, knows that

Im glad we agree it has good functions. Because it seems people here seem to think it must be lowered as much as possible. This doctrine is harming people's health unnecessarily.
 
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MatheusPN

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Estradiol. Estradiol is not harmful to the brain, in its natural state. That means for men as testosterone --> estradiol. It's critical for brain function. That's why I think lowering it is almost always a bad idea.

It's necessary to protect the basal ganglia and dopaminergic neurons in particular, and an absence of estrogen leads to parkinsonian problems quite quickly. Estradiol alone administered to a man with Parkinsons lead to symptomatic improvement. On a list of MJF Foundation's most promising areas for cures for Parkinsons - the top of the list is estrogen, the second one is resveratrol (a phytoestrogen). They are looking for drugs which mimic estrogens actions, but "aren't feminising." The most effective substance they've found so far for dissolving the A-syn aggregates is estriol (E3).

This makes sense when you see the epidemiology of PD and the other "synucleopathies" - they affect far more men than women, and seem to almost never effect pre menopausal women.



I'm glad you mention that tamoxifen causes brain damage. It does this by blocking estrogen in the brain. It is a selective estrogen receptor modulator, and it's "estrogenic" effects are on some selective tissues such as the bones.

I commented about this on the thread you linked to there, if you read it. The poster seemed to be confused about how a SERM worked. Of course they are both estrogenic and anti estrogenic. Thats the point, it depends on the tissue. In the brain though, it lowers estrogen.

And aromatase inhibitors (which unlike SERMs have no estrogenic action at all) have been shown to cause a greater cognitive decline than SERMs.



That study showed that estrogen + progestin caused brain shrinkage. That's going to be due to the fact they used a synthetic progesterone mimic. These are known to cause brain problems on their own!

And even if it was progesterone (which it definitely wasn't!), as i posted above, giving both progesterone and estrogen at the same time, instead of cycling them as happens naturally, has been shown to cancel out the benefits of both in some studies.

And taking estrogen orally is unnatural and probably unhelpful - it gets largely converted to estrone (E1) in the liver, which causes excess clotting and other problems. The studies on transdermal / bioidentical are far more positive.


Thank you for sharing this - I wasn't aware of this. I've also read that glyphosate is an aromatase inhibitor, so ill have to read it later to try make sense of it all. But it makes sense, as many such toxins seem to muck around with estrogen receptors, both blocking and in this case overstimulating them (5-11 times the normal activation, I saw when glancing at it).



Im glad we agree it has good functions. Because it seems people here seem to think it must be lowered as much as possible. This doctrine is harming people's health unnecessarily.
Very inspiring writing! Thank you. Resveratrol being second isn't good for the list notoriety. For now the estradiol allegation is the only I disagree strongly. Progestins are estrogenic and opposes progesterone functions
Besides estradiol, you like what estrogens?
I will retaliate you eventually, Goobz aspirin is your deadly enemy
 
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Goobz

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Very inspiring writing! Thank you. Resveratrol being second isn't good for the list notoriety. For now the estradiol allegation is the only I disagree strongly. Progestins are estrogenic and opposes progesterone functions
Besides estradiol, you like what estrogens?

Hehe well I had a coffee before that post, so apologies that it became so huge.

Just estradiol I think has a lot of beneficial functions. Estrone is probably not very beneficial, but I haven't looked into it that much.

I'm obviously no expert in this, I just have had to do a lot of research myself after an aromatase inhibitor was given to me by a Dr. This seems to have been the cause of chronic health problems for me, including brain problems, which I didn't realise at the time. I did study medicine at university for a few years before changing careers, so that helped me to easily understand the concepts better.

But I really don't want others to needlessly harm their health by trying to artificially lower what I think is a key hormone. I keep meaning to make a separate thread about estradiol, instead of highjacking others, but I don't actually enjoing having big internet arguments, especially on a forum I like. But then my short warning comments on these posts escalate, as seen here, hehe.

I will retaliate you eventually, Goobz aspirin is your deadly enemy

Haha I wish I knew what this enigmatic post meant...

I've taken aspirin before but it didnt have a huge effect (was a low dose version though).
 

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