Low Tryptophan Diet

[member 6316]

hi guys. How do I start go on a no tryptophan diet is that possible?
I dont know what site to use to know what food contain tryptophan or not .

 

[YourUniverse]

hi guys. How do I start go on a no tryptophan diet is that possible?
I dont know what site to use to know what food contain tryptophan or not .

Adding gelatin to as many protein-rich meals as you can is a great start

 

[Travis]

It's not possible to eliminate it completely, but a low tryptophan diet will reduce serotonin. If tryptophan is made a limiting amino acid, more of it will be incorporated into structural proteins and less will be converted to serotonin. What is most important of brain serotonin synthesis is the Fernstrom ratio, which provides a near exact straight‐line correlation between brain serotonin and plasma amino acids:

Fernstrom Ratio = (Tryptophan) ÷ (Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu)​

Just taking the amino acids in the divisor will lower brain serotonin synthesis almost in real time, but you still need to consume all 21 or so amino acids.

The foods with the highest tryptophan ratio that I can think of are eggs and beef. Milk has some but cheese has less, as more of the tryptophan is lost in whey fraction than you'd expect based on mass alone. And almost paradoxically, pure sugar will raise serotonin more than sugar + protein; this is because insulin pulls all amino acids into the cell except for tryptophan, which is bound to albumin. This functionally increases the Fernstrom Ratio and brain serotonin synthesis, despite the fact that sugar has no protein to speak of. So reducing brain serotonin involves avoiding insulin spikes as well as choosing foods with a low Fernstrom Ratio.

 

[Koveras]

Fernstrom Ratio = (Tryptophan) ÷ (Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu)

I was under the impression all the large neutral amino acids (LNAAs) shared the same transporter - making it more like:

Fernstrom Ratio = (Tryptophan) ÷ (Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu + Val + Lys + Met + His)

 

[Thoushant]

Also currently looking into this. if you search "low tryptophan.." you get blogs on how to raise serotonin instead...

Dietary tryptophan depletion in humans using a simplified two amino acid formula – a pilot study - Europe PMC Article - Europe PMC
I found this article on a cocktail that lowers serotonin, PHE and LEU cocktail, as they have highest affinity to L1 transporters at the BBB. There's a long section on tryptophan depletion history.

also this site
Dr. Karl-Heinz Kellner - Technische Unternehmensberatung - ATD / Physiological background

And almost paradoxically, pure sugar will raise serotonin more than sugar + protein; this is because insulin pulls all amino acids into the cell except for tryptophan, which is bound to albumin. This functionally increases the Fernstrom Ratio and brain serotonin synthesis, despite the fact that sugar has no protein to speak of. So reducing brain serotonin involves avoiding insulin spikes as well as choosing foods with a low Fernstrom Ratio.

Good to know about insulin. So egg can really stir things up..?
Free fatty acids also compete for the same place Tryptophan binds to albumin, making it free and go carrier hunting

 

[member 6316]

Adding gelatin to as many protein-rich meals as you can is a great start

what does gelatin do n what dose?

 

[johnwester130]

what does gelatin do n what dose?

it can be done on a vegan diet and gelatin.

Gelatin, stress, longevity

 

[member 6316]

It's not possible to eliminate it completely, but a low tryptophan diet will reduce serotonin. If tryptophan is made a limiting amino acid, more of it will be incorporated into structural proteins and less will be converted to serotonin. What is most important of brain serotonin synthesis is the Fernstrom ratio, which provides a near exact straight‐line correlation between brain serotonin and plasma amino acids:

Fernstrom Ratio = (Tryptophan) ÷ (Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu)​

Just taking the amino acids in the divisor will lower brain serotonin synthesis almost in real time, but you still need to consume all 21 or so amino acids.

The foods with the highest tryptophan ratio that I can think of are eggs and beef. Milk has some but cheese has less, as more of the tryptophan is lost in whey fraction than you'd expect based on mass alone. And almost paradoxically, pure sugar will raise serotonin more than sugar + protein; this is because insulin pulls all amino acids into the cell except for tryptophan, which is bound to albumin. This functionally increases the Fernstrom Ratio and brain serotonin synthesis, despite the fact that sugar has no protein to speak of. So reducing brain serotonin involves avoiding insulin spikes as well as choosing foods with a low Fernstrom Ratio.

so I have to supplement 21 different amino acids??? Isnt just taking BCAA enough in a high dose?

 

[member 6316]

it can be done on a vegan diet and gelatin.

Gelatin, stress, longevity

tl:dr? does gelatin inhibit serotonin or somth?

 

[YourUniverse]

tl:dr? does gelatin inhibit serotonin or somth?

it is a protein source completely devoid of tryptophan, so it has the effect of diluting trypophan which Travis pointed out is the name of the game. Another strategy is to take BCAAs. I think any amino acid cocktail that lacks tryptophan will, when added to meals CONTAINING tryptophan, dilute the tryptophan content and lessen serotonin synthesis

You should read Ray's articles though

 

[member 6316]

I was under the impression all the large neutral amino acids (LNAAs) shared the same transporter - making it more like:

Fernstrom Ratio = (Tryptophan) ÷ (Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu + Val + Lys + Met + His)

so I just take all the large neural amino acids? Those are the ones that compete with tryptophan into the brain?
Tyrosine, Phenylalanine, BCAAs, lysine ,Methionine and Histidine? Also you said Val twice whats the other val stand for? I know 1 stand for Valine.

 

[Travis]

I was under the impression all the large neutral amino acids (LNAAs) shared the same transporter - making it more like:

Fernstrom Ratio = (Tryptophan) ÷ (Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu + Val + Lys + Met + His)

Fernstrom got a very good correlation with just those five and uses them exclusively in his calculations. Leaving aside whether or not the above calculation would be more accurate, it is not the 'Fernsrom Ratio' as defined by Fernstrom.

 

[Travis]

Good to know about insulin. So egg can really stir things up..?
Free fatty acids also compete for the same place Tryptophan binds to albumin, making it free and go carrier hunting

The two proteins with the highest Fernstrom Ratios are always listed as those from whey and egg white. However, these are two half‐fractionated proteins with natural counterparts in cheese and egg yolk. I think someone needs to start a thread where people can calculate Fernstrom Ratios when they're bored or curious, and then eventually we could have dozens of them. I wish the cronometer would calculate them automatically, but it doesn't.

So unless the egg yolk is particularly low in tryptophan, then the whole egg should have a higher Fernstrom Ratio than most foods.

 

[member 6316]

so just taking Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu is enough? with gelatin to deplet serotonin?
Can I still eat watever I want as long as I take these ? what dosage also

 

[YourUniverse]

so just taking Tyr + Phe + Val + Ile + Leu is enough? with gelatin to deplet serotonin?
Can I still eat watever I want as long as I take these ? what dosage also

You will want to lower endotoxin as well. Ways that Ray mentions to lower it are eliminate starch, eliminate digestible fibres and have a daily carrot salad

 

[member 6316]

You will want to lower endotoxin as well. Ways that Ray mentions to lower it are eliminate starch, eliminate digestible fibres and have a daily carrot salad

does carrot reduce endotoxins? how is that related to serotonin?

 

[YourUniverse]

You asked a similar question that was answered 6 months ago:
Help Me Reduce My Serotonin Levels

 

[member 6316]

You asked a similar question that was answered 6 months ago:
Help Me Reduce My Serotonin Levels

oh im sorry for not remembering somth I asked 6 months ago.
But how is aiding digestion affect serotonin in the brain?

 

[YourUniverse]

oh im sorry for not remembering somth I asked 6 months ago.
But how is aiding digestion affect serotonin in the brain?

Whats the point of giving you information when youll forget it in a few months? the answer is the same now as it was then

Serotonin is made in the gut, and keeping the gut clean is essential for keeping serotonin low. Carrots have indigestible fibre that has a slight antibiotic effect, keeping things clean and moving.

 

[member 6316]

Also currently looking into this. if you search "low tryptophan.." you get blogs on how to raise serotonin instead...

Dietary tryptophan depletion in humans using a simplified two amino acid formula – a pilot study - Europe PMC Article - Europe PMC
I found this article on a cocktail that lowers serotonin, PHE and LEU cocktail, as they have highest affinity to L1 transporters at the BBB. There's a long section on tryptophan depletion history.

also this site
Dr. Karl-Heinz Kellner - Technische Unternehmensberatung - ATD / Physiological background



Good to know about insulin. So egg can really stir things up..?
Free fatty acids also compete for the same place Tryptophan binds to albumin, making it free and go carrier hunting

so Phenylalanine and Leucine supplement in high dosages will do it?