Low Or High Dht

sebastian_r

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Jun 9, 2018
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You could as well trying to increase your bodyfat by a bit to increase the aromatisation of testosterone / increase your estradiol.

When I go down with my bodyfat too much, I get low estradiol side effects as well. Low energy / low libido (not even injecting testosterone is helping then).

However low dose DHEA works for me @ 2mg/day.

Another thing too play around with are the fats from food. Saturated fats like coconut oil or beef tallow are reducing my estradiol massively while unsaturated fats seem to increase it.
 
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MrBenjamin

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I don't think the estrogen imitating compounds in food are absorbed by the digestive system in a significant amount.
 

Aleeri

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I have been starting to doubt that DHT is really as good as some like to promote it to be. The more I learn about hormones the more I think there is no GOOD or BAD, there is only simply a balance going on and heading too much in either direction is BAD.

Basically what fuel these thoughts about DHT is that I have noticed on my lab ranges to have high range DHT levels but see little if any benefit in libido or sexual function from it: Dropbox - Screenshot 2018-11-10 12.51.57.png

Also, you can show me studies of the wellbeing and mood-boosting effects of DHT all day, but I'm not feeling it even though the paperwork says so...

It seems that even though T levels tend to decline with ageing, DHT levels (which T is supposed to be its precursor) seems to remain? Age Trends in the Level of Serum Testosterone and Other Hormones in Middle-Aged Men: Longitudinal Results from the Massachusetts Male Aging Study

What is well established to date is that several important sex hormone levels, although not all, undergo a gradual shift in men after age 40. T and DHEA decline with age, whereas LH, FSH, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) rise with age (3–9). At least one important T metabolite, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), apparently remains constant despite the decline of its precursor (9–12).

I think there is some kind of relationship where an ideal hormonal state in men is a certain ratio of T to DHT to Progesterone. If T/Progesterone decrease and flips towards DHT favour then it's no bueno.

There is some study out there that show increased visceral fat accumulation in DHT treated men: Testosterone and regional fat distribution. - PubMed - NCBI

In above study all the benefits came from treatment with T and not DHT:

T treatment was also followed by a specific decrease of visceral fat mass (measured by CT-scan), by increased insulin sensitivity (measured with the euglycemic glucose clamp), by a decrease in fasting blood glucose, plasma cholesterol and triglycerides as well as a decrease in diastolic blood pressure. In the DHT group an increased visceral mass was detected. No other changes in these variables were found in the DHT and P groups.

Visceral fat is the classic body composition of the ageing male and I have problems with it too. Even when I did heavy dieting I would lose fat but I always carry this extra load of visceral fat on my stomach. I've tested high DHT levels for years, I never had a test show low.

When I did manage to increase my free T and bioavailable T levels after going Peat I did notice big changes in body composition, especially muscle mass and also some improvement in sexual function. So at this point, I feel somewhat doubtful about the importance of DHT and direct supplementation of DHT.

This thread is interesting too:
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) Activates Estrogen Receptor Alpha

Also this is a great article which also shows that DHT is not always "good", in fact, some DHT metabolites can be carcinogenic depending on the ratios and metabolites produced from it: Anticancer Testosterone Metabolite 3β-Adiol (July 2012) Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients
 
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Visceral fat is the classic body composition of the ageing male and I have problems with it too. Even when I did heavy dieting I would lose fat but I always carry this extra load of visceral fat on my stomach. I've tested high DHT levels for years, I never had a test show low.

When I did manage to increase my free T and bioavailable T levels after going Peat I did notice big changes in body composition, especially muscle mass and also some improvement in sexual function. So at this point, I feel somewhat doubtful about the importance of DHT and direct supplementation of DHT.

I agree. What did you do to raise your T may I ask?
 

Aleeri

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I agree. What did you do to raise your T may I ask?

My issue was always that I had high total T but low free/bioavailable.

As soon as I introduced large amounts of sugars in the form of lactose/fructose along with 1/2 grain NDT my SHBG came down 10 points after 3 months which made a big difference in free T levels. I was also able to handle higher volumes of resistance training for the first time.

I'm attributing it to a better working thyroid/metabolism and less stress hormones.

I also did other smaller tweaks but I believe the above to be the big changes for me.

I am not in my ideal state yet but it's leaps and bounds better that's for sure.
 

Cameron

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I see studies showing decrease in 5ar with age while other studies show increase with age and dht levels don't know how that is happening I think high dht in a healthy individual is good but if it's a unhealthy person with elevated prolactin estrogen (too high or too low)and adrenals making the hormones dhts benefits may not be seen I for one noticed more libido from increasing estrogen a bit with acouple beers or cheat meal and better strength. dht driving estrogen to low and following an estrogen suicide diet may be a bit much for some
 

cihans

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Aug 1, 2017
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Is supplementing with boron beneficial in this case? Also I feel like superman when I ate estrogenic foods. Chickpeas,flaxseed,dried apricot and beer is my favourite estrogenic foods.
 

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