Low-Fat Diet, Hypocaloric Diet, Weight Loss, Metabolism

[RPDiciple]

Zachs: DNL will ramp up so you will get more efficient at turning carb to fat so if you then eat above maintnance with carbs it will get turned to fat.

 

[Zachs]

Not in my experience Or a few others. Also Max has been eating above 4k calories on a vlf diet for months now with zero fat gain.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

if you want to loose fat you cant eat as many calories as you burn so that comment is crap

Yes you can, if you eat a fat deficient diet, your body will use its fat stores for normal bodily processes involving fat. The carbs and protein won't be stored as fat so even though you are eating at maintanance or even above, you will still be losing fat and any excess energy will be dissapated as heat production.

THIS depends entirely on an individuals ability to actually oxidize glucose

 

[Zachs]

Of course, everything depends on individual variables. Just stating that it is possible to lose bodyfat eating at or above maintenance calories.

 

[RPDiciple]

Zachs: hmm im not sure it can be done. Since you are den saying that fat loss operates at a different level then overall calorie expendeture and thermodynamics functions in the body. To say that you can just eat at maintnance or above and loose fat wich will only happen if you really are in a calorie deficit according to science. It just does not add up. You think you are eating at maintnance but you are in a calorie deficit.

 

[nikotrope]

if you want to loose fat you cant eat as many calories as you burn so that comment is crap

How polite of you to say things like that.

There's a difference between a deficit of 100kcal and 500kcal and more. Aspirin and caffeine will make you burn more calories. If you add a calorie deficit to that, the deficit will become big and it's going to be bad. period.

 

[nikotrope]

And everybody advising a calorie deficit to lose weight say not to create a too big deficit, especially for a long period of time. So there's no denying it.

 

[RPDiciple]

nikotrope yes because im really frustrated by so many people that thinks that RP is all about getting big and fat to get healthy. If you have read and listen what RP recommends for loosing fat/weight you will se that its more then 500 kcal deficit and i have talked with RP about it as well so it just frustrates me that so many people get the weight loss thing wrong. Everyone seems to think that restricting calories is bad, stress, makes you fat and all that. Wich is just bull**** all the way.

Caffeine will increase your metabolism yes, but it will also support your liver and clean your liver wich will support and help your "higher" metabolism to clean out the fat, the same does aspirin. So yes it stimulates metabolism wich is great and it makes your body handle calorie deficit better because it supports the body to handle it.

 

[RPDiciple]

How big of a deficit are we talking about, and for how long? not alot of people can do that anyway. We are not machines. Its only anorexic and bodybuilder/fitness people that tend to override and overdo all that stuff. We average joes dont even come close to metabolic adaptation or damage done from some restricting of calories and that is been proven so many times when they put people in a metabolic ward.

Remember you just dont support your metabolic rate with calories, you support it with nutrition. You can keep your metabolism up for very long in a deficit if you support it with good nutrition.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Yeah and fasting cleans the cells doesn't it

 

[nikotrope]

If you do such a deficit, how do you deal with hunger?

The formula I use for the deficit is in the book "The Fat Loss Bible" from Anthony Colpo: 370+(lean weight in kg*21.6) with a coefficient for the level of activity. But if I follow this I am very hungry and my stress hormones are rocketing.

I eat plenty of milk and fruits for the nutrients, I hit every target. Very high salt intake seems to help with the hunger, but even on several days on a deficit recently I lost nothing. Though it worked a year ago at the cost of my health (while already eating a "peat diet").

Did you share your email exchanges with RP in relation to the calorie deficit? Because it doesn't write about calories a lot and I never saw him says to do a 500kcal deficit (and he even says to eat more to improve the metabolism).

 

[Peata]

If you do such a deficit, how do you deal with hunger?

The formula I use for the deficit is in the book "The Fat Loss Bible" from Anthony Colpo: 370+(weight in kg*21.6) with a coefficient for the level of activity. But if I follow this I am very hungry and my stress hormones are rocketing.

I eat plenty of milk and fruits for the nutrients, I hit every target. Very high salt intake seems to help with the hunger, but even on several days on a deficit recently I lost nothing. Though it worked a year ago at the cost of my health (while already eating a "peat diet").

Did you share your email exchanges with RP in relation to the calorie deficit? Because it doesn't write about calories a lot and I never saw him says to do a 500kcal deficit (and he even says to eat more to improve the metabolism).

This is what i'm afraid will happen to me. I barely ate for a week in Jan. when I was sick and didn't really lose. And now again I'm lowering calories and I actually went up on the scale. Disheartening, but what can I do. I'll keep trying.

 

[nikotrope]

This is what i'm afraid will happen to me. I barely ate for a week in Jan. when I was sick and didn't really lose. And now again I'm lowering calories and I actually went up on the scale. Disheartening, but what can I do. I'll keep trying.

And the deficit was on a very low fat diet! And I gained 3 pounds in a few days after stopping the deficit... hitting a new all time high...

 

[Zachs]

Zachs: hmm im not sure it can be done. Since you are den saying that fat loss operates at a different level then overall calorie expendeture and thermodynamics functions in the body. To say that you can just eat at maintnance or above and loose fat wich will only happen if you really are in a calorie deficit according to science. It just does not add up. You think you are eating at maintnance but you are in a calorie deficit.

You are not understanding. The fat loss is not brought on because of a deficit in calories causing a demand for bodyfat to be used as energy. The fat is lost because on a fat deficient diet, the body uses your fat stores for it's daily processes that require fat. Since your fat stores are not getting replenished by dietary fat, you are able to empty your fat stores while still eating at or above maintanance calories. The excess calories from protein and carbs will be dissapated as heat, i.e. metabolism boost. This is exactly what Ray Peat talks about when referring to losing fat without liberating huge stores of PUFA. In this fashion, you could actually bring on hyperthyroid issues if your calories are too high, say 5-6k a day.

 

[Peata]

nikotrope yes because im really frustrated by so many people that thinks that RP is all about getting big and fat to get healthy. If you have read and listen what RP recommends for loosing fat/weight you will se that its more then 500 kcal deficit and i have talked with RP about it as well so it just frustrates me that so many people get the weight loss thing wrong. Everyone seems to think that restricting calories is bad, stress, makes you fat and all that. Wich is just bull**** all the way.

Caffeine will increase your metabolism yes, but it will also support your liver and clean your liver wich will support and help your "higher" metabolism to clean out the fat, the same does aspirin. So yes it stimulates metabolism wich is great and it makes your body handle calorie deficit better because it supports the body to handle it.

I realize the gain is all my fault, but I see what you mean when you wrote the above, because at the time I was gaining I kept reading things like the gain is healthy and a sign of healing - my body wanted the higher weight - maybe that's the weight I was meant to be - would gain then lose when things settled, and so on, along with the restricting calories being bad because it could lower metabolism, cause stress, etc.

So what could a person do. Can't keep gaining because I was already having health problems from it. It didn't look or feel healthy at least in my case (I know there are some who come to this woe underweight and malnourished but that wasn't me). But couldn't lose either, and was afraid to be too strict.

Anyway, I'm also interested in what you're saying about supporting the liver and getting sufficient nutrition with lower calories. And also what RP said to you about losing weight.

 

[nikotrope]

I also agree that people on this forum saying being fat is healthy are a bit frustrating. But I have yet to see a testimonial here of someone losing weight with a big calorie deficit. thebigpeatowsky is the only member who's got results and it was a 100kcal deficit if I remember correctly.

 

[sweetpeat]

You think you are eating at maintnance but you are in a calorie deficit.

So are you saying that Zachs and max have lost weight because they've raised their metabolism enough so that they are able to eat 3-4,000 calories and so for them this is a deficit?

 

[Peata]

This is what i'm afraid will happen to me. I barely ate for a week in Jan. when I was sick and didn't really lose. And now again I'm lowering calories and I actually went up on the scale. Disheartening, but what can I do. I'll keep trying.

And the deficit was on a very low fat diet! And I gained 3 pounds in a few days after stopping the deficit... hitting a new all time high...

That is scary. What is going on with us?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Several studies suggest that a high degree of unsaturation in the fats is fundamentally related to the aging process, since long lived species have a lower degree of unsaturation in their fats. Caloric restriction decreases the age-related accumulation of the fatty acids with 4 and 5 double bonds.....from RP's Fats and Degeneration

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I also agree that people on this forum saying being fat is healthy are a bit frustrating. But I have yet to see a testimonial here of someone losing weight with a big calorie deficit. thebigpeatowsky is the only member who's got results and it was a 100kcal deficit if I remember correctly.

I never said I was in 100 calorie deficit....it was a waaay bigger deficit than that. I took the quick and dirty route.