Low Dose (3-5mg) Test And Dht Topical For Massive Androgen Increase

[Cameron]

@Cameron have we determined the ceiling for what amount works without causing suppression.
What’s your goals? Simply beard growth?

From what I've seen a healthy individual produces 4 mgs of test a day how much dht is tricky cause the 5ar steroids convert back n forth as ive read from @haidut so the amount natural of dht to produce or take is hard to say my goal is beard and strength I have normal to high test with lots of muscle mass but feel I could use more aggressive 5ar androgens. Suppression seems unlikely from studies of drugs like proviron in doses over 50mgs so a few mgs of dht likely is very safe topically since dht increases 5ar activity and self stimulates especially a pure dht we should study micro doses androgens in healthy males and females I don't see why we can use and study these androgens with conservative use like we can other drugs I believe androgens are a cure to mental disorders and disease

 

[Cameron]

From what I've seen a healthy individual produces 4 mgs of test a day how much dht is tricky cause the 5ar steroids convert back n forth as ive read from @haidut so the amount natural of dht to produce or take is hard to say my goal is beard and strength I have normal to high test with lots of muscle mass but feel I could use more aggressive 5ar androgens. Suppression seems unlikely from studies of drugs like proviron in doses over 50mgs so a few mgs of dht likely is very safe topically since dht increases 5ar activity and self stimulates especially a pure dht we should study micro doses androgens in healthy males and females I don't see why we can use and study these androgens with conservative use like we can other drugs

How much each mgs of andro should convert to dht is also a question as some have had great success with andro and strength and hair growth

 

[Cameron]

Sorry for all the post but this goes back to Ray saying 1-3 mgs of topical pure t pure dht are safe so under the amount of what the body makes daily this is why an injection of 200 mgs of test with shut you down over time hell most people go way higher for bodybuilding

 

[Vinero]

Sorry for all the post but this goes back to Ray saying 1-3 mgs of topical pure t pure dht are safe so under the amount of what the body makes daily this is why an injection of 200 mgs of test with shut you down over time hell most people go way higher for bodybuilding

I agree taking a few mgs of T a day is safe, and mimics the amount a healthy male produces. Taking 100 mgs of testosterone is dumb and will convert massively to estrogen anyway.

 

[Cameron]

I agree taking a few mgs of T a day is safe, and mimics the amount a healthy male produces. Taking 100 mgs of testosterone is dumb and will convert massively to estrogen anyway.

Exactly logically it all makes since big pharma will give you androgens but by making you a customer for life

 

[Arrade]

Wouldn’t taking even normal range of test cause gonadal suppression?

Also proviron increases fertility, if you were to take another DHT derivative like anavar your system would be suppressed, proviron may be the only “safe one”

 

[Douglas Ek]

Do

you follow Ray peat stlye eating mostly? Dht is responsible of growth rate length while test is driver for thickness of androgen hair so I'm sure this andro your taking sounds to be converting well to dht have you noticed it getting thicker or more dense? How much are you taking?

Im not taking any androgen. my point was that you can get that testosterone levels without anabolic steroids

 

[Arrade]

Im not taking any androgen

Data

 

[Arrade]

Im not taking any androgen

 

[Cameron]

Wouldn’t taking even normal range of test cause gonadal suppression?

Also proviron increases fertility, if you were to take another DHT derivative like anavar your system would be suppressed, proviron may be the only “safe one”

We don't know for sure proviron looks safe is similar almost completely to anavor it is a weak androgen I assume pure dht more natural to the body with less amount used would be safer I doubt suppression from low dht use maybe from t though cause it does aromatize I think of steroids as just capping off what your body is producing

 

[Cameron]

Im not taking any androgen. my point was that you can get that testosterone levels without anabolic steroids

You said you've used Androsterone though in assuming that's all you've tried Ididn't see how much you've used?

 

[Douglas Ek]

You said you've used Androsterone though in assuming that's all you've tried Ididn't see how much you've used?

I've posted blood test here on the forums where I had that T level before I ever mentioned trying androsterone. I did try a bottle of andro and pansterone. But didn't notice any significant difference in taking low doses of those either. From what I've read and come to understand from other websites people tend to feel a lot more using pure testosterone and DHT than from what I've heard people experience from pansterone and androsterone here on ray peat forum. I've never tried real testosterone or DHT and probably never will because I'm afraid to **** up my natural production.

 

[Arrade]

I've posted blood test here on the forums where I had that T level before I ever mentioned trying androsterone. I did try a bottle of andro and pansterone. But didn't notice any significant difference in taking low doses of those either. From what I've read and come to understand from other websites people tend to feel a lot more using pure testosterone and DHT than from what I've heard people experience from pansterone and androsterone here on ray peat forum. I've never tried real testosterone or DHT and probably never will because I'm afraid to **** up my natural production.

Also what would be the point, you have to come off eventually

 

[Cameron]

Also what would be the point, you have to come off eventually

As in cycle? Some people just stay on I guess and use bioidentical hormones with good success even though it's not necessary just some of them may help up your good production if used correctly

 

[Douglas Ek]

As in cycle? Some people just stay on I guess and use bioidentical hormones with good success even though it's not necessary just some of them may help up your good production if used correctly

Well easier way to just actually naturally get your levels up than having to stick a needle in your **** every day/week. Feels better aswell rather than just being ”fake” besides if you dont do it right youll get estrogen problems and testicle shrinkage. If shrinkage becomes to big of a problem getting your production back might be real hard and you might risk never getting sperm quality back up. Even risk getting kids

 

[Wagner83]

.

 

[Arrade]

As in cycle? Some people just stay on I guess and use bioidentical hormones with good success even though it's not necessary just some of them may help up your good production if used correctly

Well anytime you inject test it will start suppressing your natural production. There is an argument fro cycling but Idk how healthy trt is, or what would be the point unless you're facing andropause at 40.

I don't know or understand this mechanism by which DHT upregulates itself, only ever heard of it here.

 

[Jnajera015]

I'm trying andro this week what are effects you've seen so far? More androgenic?

Im using 2 drops in the morning and 2 in the mid afternoon. Total 4 drops daily of both Pansterone and Androsterone. All of this for about 3 months +.

The main effects are more energy, a small raise in body temp and alertness . Small increase in libido. My workouts are a bit more productive also.
I’ve had a couple days of insomnia. It happens if I have the second dose too late, so I try to have it around 3-4pm.

Overall mild effect but sustained and perhaps increasing in efectiveness. As if it is acummulating.

I also tested my total T and Thyroid levels before and after a couple months. Mostly no effect on thyroid. But T had a significant increase (I started at a low 469 and finished at 572 ng/dL).

I’m keeping the regimen a couple more months and then get tested again to see if I sholud do something else.

I also started 10mg vit k2 mk4 and 5000 iu vit D3, a carrot salad with coconut oil and a pinch of sea salt every morning with my breakfast. This was since a couple months before the pansterone+andro.

So far, so good.

 

[Arrade]

Im using 2 drops in the morning and 2 in the mid afternoon. Total 4 drops daily of both Pansterone and Androsterone. All of this for about 3 months +.

The main effects are more energy, a small raise in body temp and alertness . Small increase in libido. My workouts are a bit more productive also.
I’ve had a couple days of insomnia. It happens if I have the second dose too late, so I try to have it around 3-4pm.

Overall mild effect but sustained and perhaps increasing in efectiveness. As if it is acummulating.

I also tested my total T and Thyroid levels before and after a couple months. Mostly no effect on thyroid. But T had a significant increase (I started at a low 469 and finished at 572 ng/dL).

I’m keeping the regimen a couple more months and then get tested again to see if I sholud do something else.

I also started 10mg vit k2 mk4 and 5000 iu vit D3, a carrot salad with coconut oil and a pinch of sea salt every morning with my breakfast. This was since a couple months before the pansterone+andro.

So far, so good.

I don't like the mental chemisty effects, but have u considered ashwagandha? Seems effective for raising thyroid and test

 

[Cameron]

I don't like the mental chemisty effects, but have u considered ashwagandha? Seems effective for raising thyroid and test

Ashwaganda increases serotonin too I believe I felt better when I stopped taking it I had pure ksm66 best purest