Low Cortisol- Ways To Increase

[Sagitarrius90]

More than the RDA? And can you explain whg more k+ is needed to male cortisol?

 

[Lokzo]

Cordyceps, Rhodiola, Deer Antler, B5, Forskolin, Adrenal cortex glandular
-All these are great to increase cortisol.

 

[Otterbutt]

What about Phosphatidyl serine to regulate cortisol (cut it in the PM or after exercise, boost it in the AM)? Can we revisit people's thoughts on that? I recently went down the rabbit hole on focusing on cortisol management rather than thyroid because of symptoms of "pooling effect" as listed on STTM, pointing to fixing cortisol before thyroid (and I know there is some conflicting advice between Peat/STTM).
I wasn't responding to catecholamine aminos at ALL (per Julia Ross): tyrosine/DLPA in any amount (tried all ranges from 50mg-2000mg) have either no effect or make me sleepy. Her books suggest that when one doesn't respond to those, look to thyroid. After evaluating my labs, it could be a cortisol/pooling issue, which seems easier to try to fix first than toying around with thyroid. Starting down that path seems overwhelming!

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but am hoping the discussion of PS might help anyone with the OPs cortisol irregularities, if it is indeed helpful.

(BTW, new account, not new lurker - I'm revisiting Peat/thyroid health after trialling it in 2012-2013)

 

[Sagitarrius90]

@Otterbutt are you saying take Phosphatidyl in the am and none in the PM? I haven't heard of that at all so its interesting to see its effects.

Are you a believer that one isnt low cortisol but just deficient in thyroid?

 

[Lucas]

@Otterbutt are you saying take Phosphatidyl in the am and none in the PM? I haven't heard of that at all so its interesting to see its effects.

Are you a believer that one isnt low cortisol but just deficient in thyroid?

From : http://www.tiredthyroid.com/hc.html
"When thyroid levels are low, the adrenals (a small gland above the kidneys) step in with cortisol and adrenaline to compensate for the deficiency. This can make someone feel both tired and wired at the same time."...

"This is because thyroid and corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG) have an inverse relationship. As thyroid levels come up, CBG goes down, leaving more cortisol free. Cortisol is also released from CBG as body temperature rises, and body temperature correlates positively with thyroid levels. So raising thyroid can naturally raise cortisol levels."
"Are the adrenals somehow connected to the thyroid? Apparently they are, because without adequate thyroid levels, the adrenals themselves atrophy."
"Rats were given anti-thyroid drugs like carbimazole or methimazole; these drugs are used to lower thyroid levels in Graves’ patients. [14] Their adrenals atrophied when hypothyroid, and the adrenal cortex actually shrank in size, especially the zona fasciculata, which is where cortisol is produced. As expected, blood cortisol levels were lower in the hypothyroid rats."
"Thyroidectomized dogs exhibited the same effect–their cortisol levels dropped significantly only seven days post-thyroidectomy. Their adrenocortical function was restored after they were given levothyroxine. "

 

[Otterbutt]

@Otterbutt are you saying take Phosphatidyl in the am and none in the PM? I haven't heard of that at all so its interesting to see its effects.

Are you a believer that one isnt low cortisol but just deficient in thyroid?

I'm not sure, to both. :)
From what I've read so far about PS, you take it to cut stress hormones. Since cortisol should be higher in the am, I wouldn't try taking it then first. People take it post exercise and more towards the afternoon/evening, maybe like GABA. But also like GABA, some people who run hyperactive do take that in the am to narrow their focus. From reviews, it seems to affect everyone differently :eyeroll:: of course...) - some do say they take it in the morning for focus and better energy... so I can't say when exactly it should be taken.
I guess something to consider is that super high cortisol can then give way to extremely low cortisol, so if you're amped and ready to go in the AM, only to burn out 1 hr later and want to nap, this might help mediate that? Otherwise maybe a combo: use it to cut the stress in the evening, sleep well through the night, and supplement with something that boosts cortisol in the morning, which I think the licorice extract does.

I think the thyroid/cortisol thing is super complex. I'm just hoping I can improve things with cortisol regulation, because it seems more confusing to me to try the thyroid supplementation route.

Thanks for the info @Lucas! And anyone else with contributions. I'll digest it shortly. Have to get going at the moment.

 

[tara]

Just a bit desperate as im a muscle head and im taking as long as it takes off the gym so i can feel great again. Month in and i legit feel the same it sucks.

I don't know how depleted you got, and I'm not an expert. If you had extreme energy deficit for a long time I'd expect it to take more than a month to recover, once you get recovery conditions. Conditions required for recovery probably depend on your state.
How severe was the dieting, how extreme the deficit, how prolonged the stress?

 

[Curiousman]

Niacin (nicotinic acid) increases Cortisol .

 

[HealthisWealth]

You need Potassium for Cortisol. Otherwise your Progesterone will stay high without going into Cortisol.

care to explain about potassium to increase cortisol?

 

[Dr. B]

Cordyceps, Rhodiola, Deer Antler, B5, Forskolin, Adrenal cortex glandular
-All these are great to increase cortisol.

concerning, why do the deer antlers raise cortisol? and b5?! should these then be avoided for most people, most people have cortisol levels far too high?

 

[Dave Clark]

Commute on the expressway daily, have at least three kids, a high mortgage, a horrible partner, etc., etc. Problem solved.

 

[FitnessMike]

Cortisol synthesis and turnover is reduced in hypothyroid. So focus on improving thyroid function.
Also, as a male you might do better on preg and DHEA than progesterone.
Then you could throw andro in the mix as there is a synergistic effect between andro and DHEA.

I wonder whether in this scenario if you use too much cortisol-suppressing stuff, that might be actually detrimental?

I might have been overusing cypro and my pulse was getting lower

 

[cs3000]

I wonder whether in this scenario if you use too much cortisol-suppressing stuff, that might be actually detrimental?

I might have been overusing cypro and my pulse was getting lower

I tend not to do well on cortisol lowering stuff so was looking into cascaras cortisol enzyme inhibiting effect.
I read a paper that that said when you inhibit 11b-hsd1 to lower cortsiol conversion from cortisone, the adrenals pick up the slack as ACTH rises & they produce more cortisol to try to cover the loss from inhibition.
so the extra HPA axis activation acts to balance cortisol levels & inhibiting cortisol through enzyme alone doesn't lower baseline cortisol after the initial drop, if HPA axis is functional. at least proven if the inhibition is ~31%.

https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.12635

The HPA axis was mildly activated with slightly increased, but still normal adrenocorticotropic hormone levels, increased total urinary corticoid excretion but unchanged plasma cortisol levels. The urinary THF/THE ratio decreased, indicating liver 11β-HSD1 inhibition. Median 11β-HSD1 enzyme inhibition in the AT reached 90% after a single dose of BI 135585, but was low (31% or lower) after 14 days of continuous treatment.


"Although this enzyme is not directly involved in cortisol biosynthesis by adrenal glands, prolonged inhibition of cortisol production mediated by 11-HSD1 leads to HPA axis activation to ensure homeostasis [9]. In this context, reducing the intracellular GC concentration in liver and adipose tissues without changing the plasma concentration of these hormones will be probably a very effective T2DM treatment.
"In response to 11-HSD1 inhibition, serum cortisol levels tend to decrease, but due
to negative feedback in HPA axis, compensatory increases in ACTH levels occur, resulting
in cortisol biosynthesis by the adrenal gland to restore cortisol homeostasis in the
bloodstream"

Safety, efficacy and weight effect of two 11β-HSD1 inhibitors in metformin-treated patients with type 2 diabetes - PubMed As reported for other 11β-HSD1-inhibitors increased concentrations of ACTH and adrenal androgen precursors were found


but the problems it mentioned are there can be affects on lowering glycogen so blood sugar might get effected, and it mentioned something about adrenal atrophy if inhibiting the enzyme too much for too long. I remember reading a blog of someone who was replacing all their cortisol (had to be done with caution). just like all these things, it exists in the body for a reason, high end no good but trying to get it to zero is not good either. he talked about "wired but tired" exhaustion from having his baseline cortisol set point out of whack too low. not enough cortisol elevation on awakening so had daytime fatigue

 

[FitnessMike]

I tend not to do well on cortisol lowering stuff so was looking into cascaras cortisol enzyme inhibiting effect. I read a paper idk if accurate but it that said when you inhibit 11b-hsd1 to lower cortsiol conversion from cortisone, the adrenals just pick up the slack & produce more cortisol to cover the loss from inhibition, when its working normally. so balances cortisol levels anyway

but the problems it mentioned are there can be affects on lowering glycogen so blood sugar might get effected, at least shown in dogs Effects of 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-1 inhibition on hepatic glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis whole body and hepatic responses to the hormonal challenge were altered significantly during 11β-HSD1 inhibition. In particular, stimulation of hepatic glucose production was prevented and glucose utilization increased, thereby making exogenous glucose infusion necessary to match glycemic levels between groups.

and it mentioned something about adrenal atrophy if inhibiting the enzyme too much for too long. I remember reading a blog of someone who was replacing all their cortisol (had to be done with caution). just like all these things, it exists in the body for a reason, high end no good but trying to get it to zero is not good either. he talked about "wired but tired" exhaustion from having his baseline cortisol set point out of whack too low. not enough cortisol elevation on awakening so had daytime fatigue

Well cypro before bed lower my resting pulse at night big time (fitbit), and now for unknow reason my day time got resting pulse got lower from being low already, im suspecting androsterone and cypro are the culprits

 

[mostlylurking]

Is there such thing as increasing cortisol in a healthy way or am i getting things mixed up..

I was in the camp that lowering cortisol will eventually (long period of healing and rest) allow healthy cortisol responses aka eventually having normal cortisol in the AM and slowly lowering throughout the day. I developed low cortisol because of being stressed 24/7 with over exercise and starch, estrogen dominance (low androgens)

Wouldn't fasting be detrimental in the healing process and in turn sabatoge any effort of regaining cortisol levels?

for your consideration:

The importance of addressing thiamine status in adrenal fatigue

In my last blog I discussed the multi-system symptomology of adrenal fatigue and used the analogy of a home heating system to describe how ...

synergyhw.blogspot.com

"Research on thiamine deficiency and adrenal function

Given the ethical challenges that inducing a thiamine deficiency in humans would raise, much of the data on the effect of thiamine deficiency on adrenal function comes from studies in rats. One study showed that inducing thiamine deficiency in rats led to hyperstimulation of the zona fasciculata of the adrenal glands in 2 weeks causing increased corticosterone output followed by complete exhaustion in 4 weeks(8). Corticosterone is the chief glucocorticoid in rats whereas cortisol fills that role in humans. While this is obviously an extreme example of thiamine deficiency and its effect on the adrenal gland, it does underscore the importance of thiamine in adrenal function."

I developed low cortisol because of being stressed 24/7 with over exercise and starch, estrogen dominance (low androgens)

Being very actively athletic + high starch might = thiamine deficiency. Exercise burns calories and that process uses up thiamine; high starch also uses up thiamine.

Effects of thiamine supplementation on exercise-induced fatigue - PubMed

High-dose thiamine (vitamin B1) supplementation (100 mg/day) may be helpful in preventing or accelerating recovery from exercise-induced fatigue. Sixteen volunteer male athletes volunteer, 8 with a blood thiamine level of 40 ng/ml or more (normal thiamine group) and 8 with levels below that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[FitnessMike]

for your consideration:

The importance of addressing thiamine status in adrenal fatigue

In my last blog I discussed the multi-system symptomology of adrenal fatigue and used the analogy of a home heating system to describe how ...

synergyhw.blogspot.com

"Research on thiamine deficiency and adrenal function

Given the ethical challenges that inducing a thiamine deficiency in humans would raise, much of the data on the effect of thiamine deficiency on adrenal function comes from studies in rats. One study showed that inducing thiamine deficiency in rats led to hyperstimulation of the zona fasciculata of the adrenal glands in 2 weeks causing increased corticosterone output followed by complete exhaustion in 4 weeks(8). Corticosterone is the chief glucocorticoid in rats whereas cortisol fills that role in humans. While this is obviously an extreme example of thiamine deficiency and its effect on the adrenal gland, it does underscore the importance of thiamine in adrenal function."


Being very actively athletic + high starch might = thiamine deficiency. Exercise burns calories and that process uses up thiamine; high starch also uses up thiamine.

Effects of thiamine supplementation on exercise-induced fatigue - PubMed

High-dose thiamine (vitamin B1) supplementation (100 mg/day) may be helpful in preventing or accelerating recovery from exercise-induced fatigue. Sixteen volunteer male athletes volunteer, 8 with a blood thiamine level of 40 ng/ml or more (normal thiamine group) and 8 with levels below that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

i have insomnia onset with 500mg HCL form, b complex with 100mg is ok tho

 

[mostlylurking]

i have insomnia onset with 500mg HCL form, b complex with 100mg is ok tho

OK. I have read that it's important to take all of the day's thiamine by 3:00pm because taken later in the day it can cause that problem.

 

[Hans]

I wonder whether in this scenario if you use too much cortisol-suppressing stuff, that might be actually detrimental?

I might have been overusing cypro and my pulse was getting lower

Maybe, but by using cypro, you're modulating a lot of other things as well.