Low Carb Eating Does Not Cause Hypothyroid

[Jessie]

@b555 Why would Haidut do a low carb diet? He's literally posted probably hundreds of studies talking about the dangers of carb restriction and/or excessive fat oxidation.

 

[baccheion]

I don't understand what you're saying here. Someone eating 300 calories a week is starvation.



Ray's opinion is hyperthyroidism is rare, and most of them are just hypo with really high stress hormones compensate their symptoms.

Slowly increase calories (while being healthy and nutrient sufficient) until what I said happens. That number of calories is the upper limit. Even with fat gain at lower calories, male was undersized if more/same is gained as lean mass.

 

[mimmo123]

go review Ben Greenfields video on Keto he was strict to the core with it and tests everything. he now eats 200 grams of carbs per day
because he crashed on Keto he went hypo, into liver failure and got low T.

 

[Jessie]

Slowly increase calories (while being healthy and nutrient sufficient) until what I said happens. That number of calories is the upper limit. Even with fat gain at lower calories, male was undersized if more/same is gained as lean mass.

Ahh okay I gotcha. Yeah that's probably a good blueprint for finding your sweet spot on the caloric chart.

 

[baccheion]

go review Ben Greenfields video on Keto he was strict to the core with it and tests everything. he now eats 200 grams of carbs per day
because he crashed on Keto he went hypo, into liver failure and got low T.

How much protein? What foods? Many have followed for decades? Also, isn't 20-30 grams just during induction? After, it jumps to 50-150 grams.

 

[B___Danny]

If people aren’t eating at least 3,500 calories per day there's no use in comparing diets. Anything under 4,000 is starvation in >50% of circumstances. From my observation the only people who succeed on low/moderate carb eat frequently and high calorie, just like the only people who succeed on peat eat high calorie. Calories trump all. And also if you’re not in a natural euphoric state of being often then you shouldn’t advocate for any diet/put down another diet because you haven’t achieved true health.

 

[B___Danny]

@haidut maybe you should try a low carb diet,

Lol. You must've never heard of fat and happy.

 

[Jessie]

If people aren’t eating at least 3,500 calories per day there's no use in comparing diets. Anything under 4,000 is starvation in >50% of circumstances. From my observation the only people who succeed on low/moderate carb eat frequently and high calorie, just like the only people who succeed on peat eat high calorie. Calories trump all. And also if you’re not in a natural euphoric state of being often then you shouldn’t advocate for any diet/put down another diet because you haven’t achieved true health.

Yeah I don't really agree with this. There seems to be a trend by many newcomers to load up on calories after applying a lot of Peat's ideas, and they start gaining weight. Whenever I hear of someone "peating" (still confused about what that means exactly, lol) and they complain about excessive weight gain, it's typically due to them eating 4,000-5,000 calories a day.

In fact, even the KMUD herb doctor dude asked Peat about this issue. That's how common it was apparently. Which is why Peat suggested if you're going to do the 2 liters of milk a day, or whatever, then you should probably use 1% milk, not whole milk. The excess calories aren't needed for typical sedentary people. Same with the cheeses. Calories in calories out matters, yet this ironically seems hard for many ppl to grasp.

Now, I do believe it's possible to raise the basal metabolism, particularly if you've been dealing with endotoxin problems and stuff. Sterilizing the gut, PUFA depletion, thyroid supplementation, high protein, caffeine, red light, etc. will raise basal metabolic rate, and your caloric "ceiling" may be slightly higher afterwards. Even then though, I would think such a raise would only be modest even in the most extreme outcomes. I actually think there's a Peat quote floating around somewhere where he stated after he took thyroid, his caloric needs actually decreased. I'm not sure of the mechanism behind this though.

Also it's important to note even the ketogenic communities selectively abide by the calorie in calorie out rule. They don't like preaching it, but when it can be used to conveniently fit their own narrative they will use it. Just checkout one of vegetable police's latest videos where he's complaining about weight gain after switching from a high sugar diet to a high fat diet.

 

[B___Danny]

Yeah I don't really agree with this. There seems to be a trend by many newcomers to load up on calories after applying a lot of Peat's ideas, and they start gaining weight. Whenever I hear of someone "peating" (still confused about what that means exactly, lol) and they complain about excessive weight gain, it's typically due to them eating 4,000-5,000 calories a day.

In fact, even the KMUD herb doctor dude asked Peat about this issue. That's how common it was apparently. Which is why Peat suggested if you're going to do the 2 liters of milk a day, or whatever, then you should probably use 1% milk, not whole milk. The excess calories aren't needed for typical sedentary people. Same with the cheeses. Calories in calories out matters, yet this ironically seems hard for many ppl to grasp.

Now, I do believe it's possible to raise the basal metabolism, particularly if you've been dealing with endotoxin problems and stuff. Sterilizing the gut, PUFA depletion, thyroid supplementation, high protein, caffeine, red light, etc. will raise basal metabolic rate, and your caloric "ceiling" may be slightly higher afterwards. Even then though, I would think such a raise would only be modest even in the most extreme outcomes. I actually think there's a Peat quote floating around somewhere where he stated after he took thyroid, his caloric needs actually decreased. I'm not sure of the mechanism behind this though.

Also it's important to note even the ketogenic communities selectively abide by the calorie in calorie out rule. They don't like preaching it, but when it can be used to conveniently fit their own narrative they will use it. Just checkout one of vegetable police's latest videos where he's complaining about weight gain after switching from a high sugar diet to a high fat diet.

Do you feel euphoric/zen everyday? If not then don’t state things as matter of fact cause whatever you’re doing isn’t working. People may read what you say and dig themselves into deeper neurosis and ill health.

How would you ever KNOW how many calories another human needs on a day to day basis? To state that as matter of fact is a pure scum thing to do. It is putting people’s life at risk. The only way to KNOW is to sense. We sense how much and what we need through satiety.

You state a whole bunch of symptoms that “hamper” the metabolic rate but they are all symptoms of long term starvation/a low metabolic rate associated with/caused by environmental induced starvation.

 

[Lollipop2]

@haidut maybe you should try a low carb diet,

How incredibly rude and an unnecessary attack. What is your problem?

 

[Lollipop2]

Lol. You must've never heard of fat and happy.

Haidut is not fat. And the post was not funny but a rude attack, sort of like your assumption.

 

[Recoen]

Well, when Thyroid increases (ft3 and ft4) than you need higher amounts of nutrients and calories, otherwise you will collapse. They are many people who take thyroid and get sugar issues/black in front of the eyes when getting up etc. So its not just your body isnt happy, your body adapt to the circumstances. Eating enough carbs is essential.

Sounds like dysautonomia/POTs. This makes sense because thyroid is putting your foot on the gas but you might not have enough vitamins for TCA and ETC (the actual combustion). B1 and B2 together, fix my POTs.

 

[Maljam]

If people aren’t eating at least 3,500 calories per day there's no use in comparing diets. Anything under 4,000 is starvation in >50% of circumstances. From my observation the only people who succeed on low/moderate carb eat frequently and high calorie, just like the only people who succeed on peat eat high calorie. Calories trump all. And also if you’re not in a natural euphoric state of being often then you shouldn’t advocate for any diet/put down another diet because you haven’t achieved true health.

I'm not sure being "euphoric" should necessarily be a marker of health and a goal to aim for. I'm not saying someone should be depressed and call themselves healthy, but euphoric 24/7 seems unachievable and just a pretty dumb expectation. Are you euphoric literally every minute of the day?

 

[baccheion]

Sounds like dysautonomia/POTs. This makes sense because thyroid is putting your foot on the gas but you might not have enough vitamins for TCA and ETC (the actual combustion). B1 and B2 together, fix my POTs.

Hence why raw egg yolks, chicken liver, and potatoes + fruit/oranges are the best combo. Most nutrient dense for each macro.

Hehehehe

Or beef liver + oysters if eating infrequently enough (ie, 2 meals) to have the excess zinc lead to binding of all the copper. And milk up to calcium RDA TUL. And then raw egg yolks and potatoes + fruit.

 

[Jessie]

Do you feel euphoric/zen everyday? If not then don’t state things as matter of fact cause whatever you’re doing isn’t working. People may read what you say and dig themselves into deeper neurosis and ill health.

How would you ever KNOW how many calories another human needs on a day to day basis? To state that as matter of fact is a pure scum thing to do. It is putting people’s life at risk.

I don't really know what you mean by zen, sounds a little too hippyish for me, but I feel quite good. Also I don't think telling people it's preferable to avoid excessive calorie consumption is going to "put their life at risk." Quite the opposite actually.

The only way to KNOW is to sense. We sense how much and what we need through satiety.

You state a whole bunch of symptoms that “hamper” the metabolic rate but they are all symptoms of long term starvation/a low metabolic rate associated with/caused by environmental induced starvation.

Okay, say no more. If you're into "intuitive eating" and sensing stuff, go load up on 5,000 calories everyday. Why would I care, your body your health your experiment. Same goes for anyone else. Nobody here is making anyone do anything.

 

[yerrag]

Hyperlipid: Are you free, T3?

"You can get an idea of whether the brain thinks there is enough T3 sitting on its receptors by whether it is asking for more. It asks for more using (eventually, after several steps) TSH, thyroid stimulating hormone. This is released from the pituitary as a signal to the thyroid to increase production.

So the rule of thumb with a suspected hypothyroid patient is to ask whether the TSH level is elevated, ie is the brain unhappy with the current thyroid level. When you don't have the time or finances available for that courier to swim the Atlantic, this is what we use. It's a surrogate, but useful."

"However, even with the greater fall in total T3 under LC eating, the brain is happy with whatever level of free T3 it is "seeing", as judged by TSH level. Should the brain be happy?

There are hints. In particular the TEE was reduced least in the LC phase of the study. There was a reduction in TEE of course. But less than for either of the other two phases imposing weight stability at reduced BMI. Despite the largest drop in total T3. It seems like a reasonable idea that both free T3 and receptor bound T3 might actually be higher under LC eating. As so many times, we will never know.

Another way of looking at the change would be to consider whether as much free T3 is needed on a LC diet. Sam Knox provided this rather nice link in the comments to The lost 300 post. It's certainly worth thinking about. Of course, I quite like the idea. But then I would!

So will low carbohydrate eating lead to thyroid deficiency? Who knows, in the long term. This was a very short study. But in this paper the brain seems quite happy with 108ng/dl of total T3 as judged by a TSH of 1.11microIU/ml."


It doesn't make logical sense that low-carb eating can ever cause hypothyroid LONG TERM (although it may appear to do so in the short-term). The problem is that low-carb eating is almost always synonymous with intermittent fasting/(starving) and caloric restriction with people trying to lose weight. The only logical thing that would cause the thyroid to not be able to produce enough T4/T3 is because it has been catabolized due to low calorie eating. Otherwise, the organ will stay strong and be able to play its roll in the body.

T3 is constantly produced from T4 by the the thyroid gland as well as by the liver. These two account for most T3 production, but the rest of the body can as well. The thing that is important to keep T3 being produced from T4 is energy being supplied to these organs continually and without interruption. The energy source is glucose, and blood glucose has to always be available, as indicated by a constant optimal level of blood sugar, say around 75 - 90 - round the clock.

It also requires the body tissues to be able to absorb and metabolize the blood glucose to continually feed the thyroid and the liver with energy to convert T4 to T3.

Since the main substrate needed to produce this energy is sugar, why would you want to make it hard on the body to restrict sugar in the diet? Why would you want to force the body to use fats for energy, when relying on fatty metabolism will produce less CO2 and more keto acids and lactic acids that will upset the acid-base balance of the body, for which CO2 is crucial for the maximal uptake of oxygen by the tissues, in order to keep metabolism efficient, where oxidative phosphorylation is employed, which is the most efficient way to produce energy. This is the very same energy needed to keep T3 constantly available.

Why?

 

[yerrag]

And you also don't want to use protein for energy. Protein, for one, is more expensive than sugar, and converting protein to sugar is a waste of money. The same can be said for fats. Secondly, protein used for energy means protein not being used as building blocks for the body as well as the many enzymes and peptides and hormones the body needs.

 

[rei]

looks like more of the old "TSH is all you need to know thyroid function" crap. Of course TSH will stay low if your body is currently undergoing stress and not expecting to turn the tide due to type of food consumed.

This is much like fish oil being antiinflammatory, kinda like salt restriction. And thus the mainstream conclude that they are beneficial, not realizing the lack of inflammation is due to the body giving up on trying to maintain proper structure and function. This leads DIRECTLY to aging.

If TSH was not going down with keto eating, it would just mean you unnecessarily convert sugar from protein, fat etc. for your mitochondria to burn up, instead of just oxidizing fat.

Came to think about it, maybe keto+thyroid supplementation could be effective antidiabetic treatment if you could get the dose just right, but the risk would be a constant danger of blacking out.

 

[Andman]

I don't really know what you mean by zen, sounds a little too hippyish for me, but I feel quite good. Also I don't think telling people it's preferable to avoid excessive calorie consumption is going to "put their life at risk." Quite the opposite actually.


Okay, say no more. If you're into "intuitive eating" and sensing stuff, go load up on 5,000 calories everyday. Why would I care, your body your health your experiment. Same goes for anyone else. Nobody here is making anyone do anything.

I believe hes referring to the peat quote that says something like whenever youre not in euphoria youre slowly degenerating (or something like that, cant remember exactly)

that being said, i very much agree with you that stuffing oneself with calories mindlessly ignoring everthing else is not the way. Cirion and countless others over the years shouldve taught us as much haha

 

[LLight]

In theory, high natural saturated fat low carb (without drinking too much water) could lead you to produce deuterium depleted water which seems to feature good properties (in mice):

Spoiler: DDW

Deuterium-Depleted Water Influence on the Isotope 2H/1H Regulation in Body and Individual Adaptation

The sensitivity of the central nervous system to fluctuations in the isotopic composition of water is confirmed by experiments on the Wistar rats, which consumed water with δ2H within the range from −827‰ to −807‰. They demonstrated, in comparison with the rats who drank water with δ2H within the range from −69‰ to −37‰, the reduction of fear and anxiety in unfamiliar environment. In another research by the same authors the Wistar rats who consumed DDW showed an improvement in long-term memory and absence of short-term memory differences compared with animals that consumed water with a natural concentration of deuterium.​

To influence nervous tissue, water with modified isotopic composition can affect the aging rate of the whole organism. For example, white outbred female rats of presenile age (20–22 months) consumed DDW (δ2H = −704‰) as drinking water for five weeks and it led to development of the expressed geroprotective effect, manifested in the appearance of recovery signs in the estrous cycle, as well as in the improvement of coat condition compared with the same parameters in animals exposed to drinking water with δ2H = −37‰. At the same time the rats that drank DDW showed development of persistent anti-stress adaptive responses of their bodies to calm and enhanced activation as well as increase in bactericidal activity of their skin. Thus in experiments on mammals the direct confirmation of DDW’s geroprotective properties was obtained, and the relation between geroprotective and anti-stress effects was shown when DDW was used in the drinking ration.​

In addition to the drinking diet, the proportion of proteins, lipids and carbohydrates in the consumed food, which proportion is associated with oxidation of organic compounds in mitochondria. At the same time, the greatest decrease of deuterium content in intracellular water is achieved with increase of lipid-containing nutrients proportion in the diet.​

The DDW also can be used as synergistic anti-inflammatory agent against sepsis with modulated oxidative stress/antioxidant parameters, as adjuvant to conventional anticancer treatment, moreover, DDW drinking is effective against hypoxia of the central nervous system and for the prevention of individuals with depression.

Also the influence of DDW for nucleic acids is noted, including its ability to increase the intensity of mitochondrial activity and autophagy as well as to alter and miRNA transcriptomic pattern in cells of some tumors. Due to this, DDW can be used as adjuvant therapy for cancer treatment.​