Low carb diets shrink the brain and causes brain inflammation

[Hans]

It’s well documented that both Homo Saipan and Homo Neanderthalensis had larger brains than modern humans eating essentially hyper-carnivorous diets.

Evolution is way too much speculation to take seriously, so not going to take that seriously.

Gluconeogenesis does not have “anti-metabolic” effects in the brain, but rather a restructuring of metabolic pathways.

How does this sentence - "The body can make its own glucose on a low-carb diet, but cortisol (the driver of gluconeogenesis) has potent anti-metabolic effects in the brain." - say that gluconeogenesis is anti-metabolic?

 

[baccheion]

So do you offer high carb? I eat about 2200 kcal according to Cronometer.
I drink milk 1,5%, and orange juice (ready made, as orange is a nightmare from supermarkets)
In Germany I do not know where can I buy raw honey. There is forest wild honey, or honey from Turkey or Southern America, I usually buy wild honey. I take Vitamin B komplex + Minerals (together in capsules), Aspirin **** (acetlysalycilsäure), coffein pulver, Vit K2 MK7 (MK4/7 arrives in 1-2 days, I could buy 100 pcs capsules at 11 Euro) , liquid D3, calcium, .I put into 1,5 lit CO2 mineral water 2 tablespoon borax powder + magnesumhydroxid pulver, then I drink it all day. Borax is very fine, it cleans from inside to outside. I have 50 mg Swanson pregnenolone, I used it 2*20-25 mg/day. I can not get any kind of thyroid supplement, Haidut's thyroid products are too expensive (together with delivery cost).

Follow the recipe, then. 1 quart per 25 lbs of body weight (assumes 15-17% body fat, so can back calculate from there if needed). Further, 2:1 ratio of 1% milk to orange juice.

As an example, someone at 150 lbs would have 6 quarts/liters or 24 cups. 2:1 would leave 16 cups 1% milk and 8 cups orange juice. There'd occasionally be a minor amount of chard, liver, oysters, eggs, etc to get iron and other remaining nutrients. Further, may add baking soda to the juice equaling less acidity on teeth. Then the supplements. Then the hormones (vitamin D, vitamin K2 MK-4, melatonin, pregnenolone, etc).

 

[863127]

Evolution is way too much speculation to take seriously, so not going to take that seriously.

How does this sentence - "The body can make its own glucose on a low-carb diet, but cortisol (the driver of gluconeogenesis) has potent anti-metabolic effects in the brain." - say that gluconeogenesis is anti-metabolic?

Come on you know the implication is that needing gluconeogenesis for brain glucose means needing cortisol for gluconeogenesis, so effectively, saying gluconeogenesis is anti-metabolic for the brain is implied, unless there's a way to do gluconeogenesis while minimizing the amount of cortisol needed for it and so making the anti-metabolic cortisol effect to the brain negligible compared to some advantages of gluconeogenesis/ketosis.

Not all cortisol is bad; there's a normal daily increase in cortisol in the morning, so it's not just the "stress hormone", it's also a normal hormone with a useful role during increases of activity and metabolism like the morning and middle of the day. But cortisol's role during ketosis still makes ketosis net harmful for the brain even if it's cyclic ketosis -- like cyclic circadian cortisol rhythms -- of eating carbs maybe later in the day, or maybe one or two days a week, or maybe mostly around summer?

And back to "unless there's a way to do gluconeogenesis while minimizing the amount of cortisol needed for it and so making the anti-metabolic cortisol effect to the brain negligible compared to some advantages of gluconeogenesis/ketosis" -- maybe there's some other variable that's lacking, or something in excess, that was a common influence and wasn't accounted for when studying that cortisol brain anti-metabolic gluconeogenesis situation. Like maybe something about what people call keto adaptation, how it can be weeks or months before the person feels comfortable in ketosis if they'd been eating lots of carbs regularly since being a toddler? A combination of something about that and something about the ketosis being cyclic each to some extent?

Or another variable other than food that wasn't considered? For example:

"Every physiological process in the human body has an electrical aspect, whether at the molecular, cellular, tissue or organ level (23). Our modern understandings of sensation, nerve conduction, muscle contraction, secretion, brain function and so on, have been derived in part from careful study of the bioelectrical and biomagnetic correlates of physiological processes. With few if any exceptions, these studies have been done on unearthed humans or animals. Hence the degree of earthing is a 'hidden variable' in most electrophysiological studies. The extent to which the findings from electrophysiological research may have been influenced by the lack of earthing of the experimental subjects is unknown. Since living systems have been in contact with the earth for most of their evolutionary history, the question arises as to whether or not modern electrophysiologists have actually been studying 'normal' organisms. Our modern concepts of physiology as derived from electrophysiological measurements may therefore require some reevaluation."
((PDF) The effect of Earthing (grounding) on human physiology)

and

Earthing: Health Implications of Reconnecting the Human Body to the Earth's Surface Electrons

Environmental medicine generally addresses environmental factors with a negative impact on human health. However, emerging scientific research has revealed a surprisingly positive and overlooked environmental factor on health: direct physical contact ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sections 2.2, 2.4
(2.2. Sleep, Stress, Pain, and Cortisol
2.4.1. Reductions in Overall Stress Levels and Tension and Shift in ANS Balance
2.4.2. Confirming Shift from Sympathetic to Parasympathetic Activation
2.4.5. Reduction of Primary Indicators of Osteoporosis, Improvement of Glucose Regulation, and Immune Response
2.4.6. Altered Blood Electrodynamics)

 

[TomS]

Follow the recipe, then. 1 quart per 25 lbs of body weight (assumes 15-17% body fat, so can back calculate from there if needed). Further, 2:1 ratio of 1% milk to orange juice.

As an example, someone at 150 lbs would have 6 quarts/liters or 24 cups. 2:1 would leave 16 cups 1% milk and 8 cups orange juice. There'd occasionally be a minor amount of chard, liver, oysters, eggs, etc to get iron and other remaining nutrients. Further, may add baking soda to the juice equaling less acidity on teeth. Then the supplements. Then the hormones (vitamin D, vitamin K2 MK-4, melatonin, pregnenolone, etc).

I ordered Vitamin K2 MK4 at discounted price (100 caps 1000 mcg MK4,+250 mcg MK7 at 12 Euro (warnke.de)
Pregnenolon price was 3,50 Euro (50 mg 60 capsules / Swanson), Vitamin D liquid 1000 IU per drop,
I drink borax+magnesium hidroxyde. I take molybdene 350 mcg 4 times a day, calcium is milk (1,5%) and Italian low fat hard cheese

 

[863127]

Gluconeogenesis does not have “anti-metabolic” effects in the brain, but rather a restructuring of metabolic pathways.

More details, references, search keyword leads?

 

[Hans]

Not all cortisol is bad; there's a normal daily increase in cortisol in the morning, so it's not just the "stress hormone", it's also a normal hormone with a useful role during increases of activity and metabolism like the morning and middle of the day.

Yes, ofc. But there is a normal rhythm to cortisol. It fluctuates during the day.

But cortisol's role during ketosis still makes ketosis net harmful for the brain even if it's cyclic ketosis -- like cyclic circadian cortisol rhythms -- of eating carbs maybe later in the day, or maybe one or two days a week, or maybe mostly around summer?

I think it's a net negative. I see it this way. Normal fluctuations in cortisol are good. But chronically elevated cortisol is not. It's like creating temporary inflammation with training vs having chronic inflammation from PUFA and iron overload. Is it normal to have inflammation elevated in a cyclic/seasonal fashion? Nope. A low-carb diet increases cortisol and even if the brain is able to protect itself to a degree, it can't do so fully. Perhaps upregulate progesterone and allopregnanolone which has a protective effect, but the excess cortisol will still have a harmful effect to a degree.
And according to lots and lots of anecdotal feedback, eating more carbs improves mental function. There is also research backing this up. Carb intake correlates with enhanced mental function...better mood, better function in general. I have experienced this myself and with so many others I work with.
Yes, you can feel good and "normal" on a low-carb diet, but once you eat more carbs, you'll feel the difference.
The only problem comes in when people can't use their glucose properly, then it can cause brain fog and so on.

And back to "unless there's a way to do gluconeogenesis while minimizing the amount of cortisol needed for it and so making the anti-metabolic cortisol effect to the brain negligible compared to some advantages of gluconeogenesis/ketosis" -- maybe there's some other variable that's lacking, or something in excess, that was a common influence and wasn't accounted for when studying that cortisol brain anti-metabolic gluconeogenesis situation. Like maybe something about what people call keto adaptation, how it can be weeks or months before the person feels comfortable in ketosis if they'd been eating lots of carbs regularly since being a toddler? A combination of something about that and something about the ketosis being cyclic each to some extent?

The thing is cortisol remains elevated no matter how long you have adapted. And the longer cortisol remains high, the more it can cause dysfunction in the long run. I was even surprised to read that cortisol is significantly higher on a diet consisting of 140g carbs vs 350g.

 

[Jon2547]

And according to lots and lots of anecdotal feedback, eating more carbs improves mental function

But there is also lots and lots of anecdotals of those using ketosis for a wide range of health benefits. I once saw this man with uncontrollable parkinsons and his condition was stabilized with ketones.

 

[Hans]

But there is also lots and lots of anecdotals of those using ketosis for a wide range of health benefits. I once saw this man with uncontrollable parkinsons and his condition was stabilized with ketones.

Hypothyroid individuals are twice as likely to get Parkinson's disease and low carb diets downregulate thyroid function. Glucose oxidation is also essential for dopamine synthesis and release. Both thyroid and glucose work synergistically together to promote the health of the dopaminergic system.
When mitochondrial function breaks down and when proper glucose oxidation becomes dysfunctional, that is when neurological disorders occur. The keto diet is most likely reducing dysfunction glucose oxidation and oxidative stress and ketones are shown to be pro-GABA, which is also helpful. I see a low carb diet as a bandaid and not for actually recovering what's actually wrong.

 

[863127]

When gluconeogenesis uses protein, do you know whether there's a difference to cortisol levels if the protein used is from food in the digestive system at that moment or from the muscles? Like how ketosis could be almost all calories from fat or like some people do carnivore with 300+ grams of protein each day. Lots of people who eat that much protein get the "meat sweats", so it is increasing metabolism to do that, right? If someone gets the meat sweats from increased metabolism could that mean their brain metabolism is also increased, and maybe to some extent the plentiful dietary protein for gluconeogensis reduces cortisol's role, making the brain metabolism effect a net improvement?

That also reminds me of the some diets that Vince Gironda recommended for bodybuilding: the positive nitrogen balance diet (basically eating eggs or meat every few hours) and the maximum definition a.k.a. steak and eggs diet (pounds of meat and dozens of eggs each day and very little carbs). Both would make plenty of protein consistently available for gluconeogenesis throughout the day, instead of from muscles maybe.

 

[863127]

About fixing glucose oxidation -- aren't some people with diabetes who use keto to improve the insulin and glucose problems then (after at least several months probably) able to start eating a moderate amount of carbs again without much problem? Especially if they gradually transition back into eating carbs by using cyclic ketosis and then keep doing cyclic ketosis some? The "metabolic flexibility" thing?

 

[Hans]

When gluconeogenesis uses protein, do you know whether there's a difference to cortisol levels if the protein used is from food in the digestive system at that moment or from the muscles?

Cortisol stimulates gluconeogenesis regardless if it's coming from the muscle or the diet.

Like how ketosis could be almost all calories from fat or like some people do carnivore with 300+ grams of protein each day.

I'm pretty sure people who eat 300g+ of protein will not be in ketosis. So less ketones are being produced for the brain and more cortisol will be released to stimulate gluconeogenesis.

Lots of people who eat that much protein get the "meat sweats", so it is increasing metabolism to do that, right? If someone gets the meat sweats from increased metabolism could that mean their brain metabolism is also increased, and maybe to some extent the plentiful dietary protein for gluconeogensis reduces cortisol's role, making the brain metabolism effect a net improvement?

Meat sweats are not a sign of a fast metabolism. Breaking down protein and converting it to glucose is very thermogenic, but doesn't actually boost the metabolism similar to carbs. Also, meat is very high in phosphorus, which also acts as a stimulant and can contribute to meat sweats. If too much protein is eaten, then there will be an increase in amino acid oxidation and the creation of ammonia, which is definitely suboptimal for health in large amounts.

That also reminds me of the some diets that Vince Gironda recommended for bodybuilding: the positive nitrogen balance diet (basically eating eggs or meat every few hours) and the maximum definition a.k.a. steak and eggs diet (pounds of meat and dozens of eggs each day and very little carbs). Both would make plenty of protein consistently available for gluconeogenesis throughout the day, instead of from muscles maybe.

I like Vince, but his approach wasn't geared towards health and longevity. And his approach isn't the only, or best, protocol for building muscle and staying lean. Sadly, he passed away at 79, which is not the best representation of his diet for longevity.

About fixing glucose oxidation -- aren't some people with diabetes who use keto to improve the insulin and glucose problems then (after at least several months probably) able to start eating a moderate amount of carbs again without much problem? Especially if they gradually transition back into eating carbs by using cyclic ketosis and then keep doing cyclic ketosis some? The "metabolic flexibility" thing?

Those people are on the scars e side. And it's mostly due to reducing excess inflammation and body fat and eating better foods than what they ate before. Low carb diets don't make people more metabolically flexibly, they actually become glucose intolerant. Some people can recover in a few days, others take weeks.

 

[Jon2547]

About fixing glucose oxidation -- aren't some people with diabetes who use keto to improve the insulin and glucose problems then (after at least several months probably) able to start eating a moderate amount of carbs again without much problem? Especially if they gradually transition back into eating carbs by using cyclic ketosis and then keep doing cyclic ketosis some? The "metabolic flexibility" thing?

That is what I believe is happening with me. I did very low carb for a couple of years and now am some days high carb and then back to low carb for several days and it seems to be working for me.

 

[curious_anthro]

Sorry I couldn’t resist chiming in on this

Hogwash. It’s well documented that both Homo Saipan and Homo Neanderthalensis had larger brains than modern humans eating essentially hyper-carnivorous diets.

Speaking as a trained anthropologist… I’ve seen a few people mention Neanderthals and “hyper-carnivorous diet”. This is not supported by current evidence. Research is increasingly showing that it was the utilisation of starch in the diet that fueled the growth of the human brain. Also, yes Neandertals did have larger cranial capacity compared to Homo sapiens BUT it has been shown that they were potentially inferior cognitively due to a smaller/slower developing cerebellum and less frontal lobe neurons.

https://www.science.org/content/article/neanderthals-carb-loaded-helping-grow-their-big-brains

Did this gene give modern human brains their edge?

A mutation present in modern humans seems to drive greater neuron growth than does an ancient hominin version.

www.nature.com

 

[AinmAnseo]

Sorry I couldn’t resist chiming in on this



Speaking as a trained anthropologist… I’ve seen a few people mention Neanderthals and “hyper-carnivorous diet”. This is not supported by current evidence. Research is increasingly showing that it was the utilisation of starch in the diet that fueled the growth of the human brain. Also, yes Neandertals did have larger cranial capacity compared to Homo sapiens BUT it has been shown that they were potentially inferior cognitively due to a smaller/slower developing cerebellum and less frontal lobe neurons.

https://www.science.org/content/article/neanderthals-carb-loaded-helping-grow-their-big-brains

Did this gene give modern human brains their edge?

A mutation present in modern humans seems to drive greater neuron growth than does an ancient hominin version.

www.nature.com

Do you have links to the research that is showing that it was the utilisation of starch in the diet that fueled the growth of the human brain?

 

[curious_anthro]

Do you have links to the research that is showing that it was the utilisation of starch in the diet that fueled the growth of the human brain?

The articles I shared have links to the studies. But here are some

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2021655118

Reconstructing Neanderthal diet: The case for carbohydrates - PubMed

Evidence for plants rarely survives on Paleolithic sites, while animal bones and biomolecular analyses suggest animal produce was important to hominin populations, leading to the perspective that Neanderthals had a very-high-protein diet. But although individual and short-term survival is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/682587

 

[brongfogboy]

Hogwash. It’s well documented that both Homo Saipan and Homo Neanderthalensis had larger brains than modern humans eating essentially hyper-carnivorous diets.

Equating anorexia to a low carbohydrate diet is an irresponsible statement. Gluconeogenesis does not have “anti-metabolic” effects in the brain, but rather a restructuring of metabolic pathways.

Absolutely! In this experiment they didn't even test the low glucose diet in rats, they tested it on rat astrocytes that they grew in an environment which is a bizarre way of testing this. When humans consume low carbs we know that there is no glucose deprivation because of gluconeogenesis and there is a strong anti inflammatory effect of getting into ketosis (low carb). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5981249/

Also, saying that someone who is anorexic is doing a "low carb diet" is a little misleading lol, they're doing a low everything diet which includes nutrient deprivation (low fats, low protein, low carb).

Low carb has proven itself to me in real life: At one time when I was very sick ended up testing multiple diets and the only one that helped me was a very low carb diet which I continued for around 8 years because it put so many of my issues into remission. Having said all that, after recovering from PFS I went back on a normal carb diet and have stayed there. Both have their place and can be great options if done correctly, just as both can have negative results if done incorrectly.