Low body temperature + death in the Bible (1 Kings 1:1)

[Twohandsondeck]

I'm going to try to take this frame by frame. I'll try not to be exhaustive of inserting Bible verses, but instead just paraphrase ideas that could be backed by scripture if necessary.

forcibly seeing a priest to determine your health and social status?

If you're comparing a priest to a doctor in modern day, the choice is still that of the individual if they want to seek aid in restoring their health. Play by the instructions that the healer gives in order to receive healing. However flawed this concept is after big pharma comes into the picture does not change the principle of receiving healing.

So, assuming that someone isn't contagious with an apparent, life threatening ailment, it's their right to consult a practitioner or not... But if it is a case of leprosy, how is it a rational thing at all to allow that unclean person to go about spreading the disease?

Offerings of tribute must go through a priest and half of each tribute must be kept by them?

Yeah, if a person wants something, they have to offer something in return. This is the basis of work.

The priest is the only one able to make a diagnosis? The priest is the only one who can supply a cure?

Unless someone else down the road has a better option...?

Keep in mind that it is written that miracles were performed in these times. Parting of the red sea, Moses' hand going from leprous to healed when he put it in a coat pocket, etc.

Those deemed unclean are isolated until the priest says so?

What other authority would there be to make such a determination... Especially considering that it is God Who heals and the priests are servants of Him.

Almost seems like the sort of thing one* should have a problem with - maybe the sort of thing it would be helpful to rail against in a different testament...?

That's why there's a different testament, lol.

Leviticus also instructs not to eat oysters or crab, yet 1 Timothy 4 says all food is fine as long as it's received with thanksgiving.

Should Jesus be curing leprosy,

He did. Mark 1:40-42

or should he rather be forking over his goats to the priest so they can deem the person clean again?

A person is now cleansed by His blood as He was the perfect sacrificial Lamb.

Is this a way of saying those old rules are dumb?

That was then and this is now. Rules are rules depending on what dispensation (time period) a person is living in.

Perhaps these stories themselves a metaphor for Jesus being some kind of super-priest?

Jesus wasn't come in the flesh before Leviticus was written.

Delightful ambiguity

I suppose it is when a bunch of mocking assumptions are made that what is written to the Jews at the time of Leviticus somehow, by default, apply to the body of Christ in present day.

1 Corinthians 14:33
[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Galatians 6:7
[7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Sow confusion -> reap confusion

how people live their lives a few hundred years down the line...

We are living in the fig tree generation, which is the generation before the 2nd advent. It is marked by the reconciliation of Israel as a nation (occurred in 1948). Psalms 90:10 is an assertion that a generation of man is 70-80 years.

2 Peter 3:9-10
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

but I think "unclean spirit" is distinct from "unclean" in the passage about skin diseases

Sure, they're separate manifestations as they are written as such... I was only drawing a point that in both instances, that which is unclean dwells outside of society.

Misanthropic, cynical, anxious, and depressed folk also fall somewhat on this path.

consulting a Vulgate Bible and tracking translations would make it more obvious, but I'm not particularly interested in going into too much of the minutiae.

Welp, the good news is that there's only one word of God which stems solely from the 5,300+ Syrian manuscripts available to us today, which is the 1611 KJV AV, so there's no need to scuffle from corrupt/dead, Alexandrian text to Alexandrian text searching for the piecemail truth of God left up to your own imagination.

An all powerful God of Life promises us that He will preserve His word:

Psalms 12:6-7 (KJV)
[6] The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[7] Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Ecclesiastes 8:4 (KJV)
[4] Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?

Esther 8:8 (KJV)
[8] Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.

1 Kings 8:56 (KJV)
[56] Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant.

John 17:17
[17]Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Proverbs 21:16 (KJV)
[16] The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.

*As a sidenote, the 1611 KJV is the only English translation without a copyright, meaning that anyone can print it and royalties are not due to any specific person or business.

It's also the only translation which calls the love of money the root of ALL evil:

1 Timothy 6:8-11
[8] And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
[9] But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
[10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
[11] But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

If you're able to reconcile these for yourself, who am I to judge?

Romans 14:4-7
[4] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
[5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
[7] For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

I think the biggest challenge of organised religion is meaningful and critical interpretation of the scripture and doctrine in a way which is helpful to people and doesn't end up in just authoritarian dogma.

Indeed it is the case that organized religion nearly always lends itself towards a man exercising power over other men through deceit, but to those of us who believe in the singular Living Book, we have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ which doesn't put men, work, or fleshly sacrifice before Him as our God.

It is unfortunate that doctrines of devils and seducing spirits are overtaking the masses in these last days by using corrupt translations and further conflating the entire Bible to be applied for the present day, but the falling away is prophesied to happen, otherwise the 2nd advent would not yet be upon us.

decisions made by the Nicene Council were arbitrary and sometimes political; for better or worse,

The expression, "all roads lead to Rome" is more appropriately conveyed as "all roads lead to the Roman Catholic church" in my opinion.

Certainly, as men are arbitrary and sometimes political, that is how their decisions follow. I thank God that He is not arbitrary or political.

the very basis of The Bible is, in a sense, propaganda.

Through use of corrupted texts and power tripping by men, taking verses out context, it has certainly been used for temporal gain over time.

For the record, I think Christianity has some very convenient excuses to completely ditch Leviticus if it wants to,

Again, right now is not the same dispensation as the time which Leviticus was written.

but some denominations and people are very wedded to the idea of the Bible being the literal word of God.

Matthew 4:4
[4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

2 Peter 1:16-21
[16] For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
[17] For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
[18] And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
[19] We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
[20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I think it's very important that people be aware of these things and I'm encouraged to see someone on this forum apparently making the effort

Thanks, I think.

I think it's important that people be aware of those who slander the word of God without knowing what it says... But instead insist on sticking to the presumption that it's mechanism to control people when in fact it offers them complete and utter liberation from this world with the peace that passeth all understanding.

Philippians 4:6-7
[6] Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 

[CreakyJoints]

I mean, I specifically said I was not interested in going into the minutiae; but alright, that's a very extensive response and I will at least read it.

I don't think you could reasonably interpret that line of thinking as "slander". I think I've also demonstrated a fair working knowledge of the text and it's compilation already, so I don't particularly like the implication either of the readings I mentioned were ignorant either - beyond anything else, they're not mine. I'm sure you must realise this is an ongoing debate amongst theologians, and that many pre-eminent Christian scholars disagree with your position about it being the literal word. They're not mutually exclusive, one is not necessarily wrong (well, I didn't think so, anyway - nor did I really think it was for either of us to say, I think people are entitled to believe whatever they like).

I seldom see people refusing to acknowledge anything that isn't KJV, incidentally - I think that's quite a remarkable stance. Like I said before, it is my preferred edition. Your points about the text itself all seem to be agreeing with my broader one about Leviticus anyway, and the idea that the New Testament generally permits a certain retroactive correction of the Old Testament. I think perhaps I didn't accurately convey the tone of the message, but I set out a position that already agreed with you - those were rhetorical questions, I already knew the answers. I thought that would have been apparent by the end of my message, but I failed to get that across. Regardless, I hope you're not accusing me of being some kind of "devil or seducing spirit" because I brought up a reading which you thought you might not like.

I'm sorry, I think my posts before must have come across as some kind of attack on you or your religion, and I didn't intend for it to read that way - I meant it to be more light-hearted. I apologise, and shall leave you to your thread.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I'm sure you must realise this is an ongoing debate amongst theologians, and that many pre-eminent Christian scholars disagree with your position about it being the literal word.

Of course. People are going to argue until the cows come home that God's word is somehow influenced by men because that would establish 1) that it's corrupt, 2) all gods are of equal value and most importantly, 3) that people would then get to sit on their own personal "truth" of what the scripture means to them as the final authority, allowing them to feel any type of way that they'd like about it regardless of what it says.

Proverbs 3:5-6
[5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
[6] In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Proverbs 16:25-27
[25] There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
[26] He that laboureth laboureth for himself; for his mouth craveth it of him.
[27] An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire.

Regardless, I hope you're not accusing me of being some kind of "devil or seducing spirit"

Nah, not at all. I was thinking more along the lines of the prosperity gospel, Calvinism, Pentecostalism, etc.

I'm sorry, I think my posts before must have come across as some kind of attack on you or your religion, and I didn't intend for it to read that way

Not in the slightest. Thank you for your humility, though. I read it that you were just haphazardly throwing out shallow claims & statements like firecrackers... So I gave a shot at putting them out in defense of the gospel. No worries, my friend.

James 2:8-9
[8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Acts 10:34-35
[34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.