Losing Weight Sensibly Vs. Eating Slight Surplus

[scarlettsmum]

What is your opinion/experience? Is it better to lose weight sensibly as in eating to satiety and never more or is it better to eat slightly more food to support metabolism regardless of hunger? I chose the latter and I have been steadily putting on some weight without increase in my basal temperature unfortunately so I'm considering the first option. My concern is with more fat cells -more estrogen which then leads to more fat cells and even more estrogen. Thoughts?

 

[mjrm]

Im interested to see the responses to this.

 

[mjrm]

What is your opinion/experience? Is it better to lose weight sensibly as in eating to satiety and never more or is it better to eat slightly more food to support metabolism regardless of hunger? I chose the latter and I have been steadily putting on some weight without increase in my basal temperature unfortunately so I'm considering the first option. My concern is with more fat cells -more estrogen which then leads to more fat cells and even more estrogen. Thoughts?

have you tried doing a specifically low fat diet?

 

[scarlettsmum]

have you tried doing a specifically low fat diet?

I have tried, but I do really poorly on low fat. It doesn't satisfy me, I'm constantly hungry. I drink low fat milk, but I don't make specific low fat choices, but at the same time I use fat as needed for cooking, etc.

 

[mjrm]

I have tried, but I do really poorly on low fat. It doesn't satisfy me, I'm constantly hungry. I drink low fat milk, but I don't make specific low fat choices, but at the same time I use fat as needed for cooking, etc.

what are you considering low fat?

 

[scarlettsmum]

what are you considering low fat?

I wouldn't eat dry cooked potatoes or livers cooked in water or stock alone. The food I eat needs to have flavour. I find that if it doesn't I always undereat. That doesn't mean that I smother my food in fat, but I do use butter and co in cooking and use 12% cream when cooking liver. However that small pot is divided amongst 4 people so I don't think it's big deal.

 

[mjrm]

I wouldn't eat dry cooked potatoes or livers cooked in water or stock alone. The food I eat needs to have flavour. I find that if it doesn't I always undereat. That doesn't mean that I smother my food in fat, but I do use butter and co in cooking and use 12% cream when cooking liver. However that small pot is divided amongst 4 people so I don't think it's big deal.

so youre not tracking it? i think tracking would help you manage how much fat you are actually consuming.

 

[scarlettsmum]

Here's the weigh loss program I'm referring to. I know Matt Stone recommended a book by this woman and here is the summary. I wouldn't eat as many veggies as she suggests, but otherwise I think it is good.

 

[scarlettsmum]

so youre not tracking it? i think tracking would help you manage how much fat you are actually consuming.

no i don't because, i don't think it can ever be accurate, especially if most food is home cooked. And also the tracking apps are always set up for American food database, so no good if you live in Europe.

 

[schultz]

In my opinion a slight deficit in calories is the best and the way to achieve this is to track your calories. If you say "I want to lose weight" and you just cut out some junk, you may lose weight but you may not. You're just guessing.

Track your calories for a few weeks and figure out how much you normally eat. Once you have established a baseline, adjust your calories down by 500 or so. This will result in slow and steady fat loss.

Your baseline can change depending on your activity level, the type of foods you eat, what supplements you take and what kind of fat you have stored, but under normal circumstances it probably won't change too much.

If you have a lot of PUFA stored (you'd be guessing at this) then releasing that PUFA may alter your thyroid function and potentially lower the amount of calories you burn.

If you find your baseline and start dieting but at the same time add 1 hour of walking a day and weights a few times a week, your baseline is going to change.

A slight deficit, enough that you consistently lose 0.5-2 pounds a week, but also enough food that you're not constantly hungry, is the best way to lose weight.

You don't want your metabolism to drop with your reduction in calories. Thyroid can help with this and getting enough sugar can also help with this. Get enough fat to keep you full but not so much that you displace protein and carbohydrates. Protein should be 80+ (my opinion).

When I first started "Peating" I lost 45 pounds in 8 months by eating 2,200 to 2,500 calories. I didn't exercise at all but I did take cynomel. I focused heavily on fruit, dairy and coffee. My protein was around 100g, my fat was around 60g and my PUFA was around 3g. I don't work at a desk though, I am standing all day.

A friend of mine usually does a yearly "cut" before summer. He gains 10 or so pounds over the winter and when spring comes just drops his calories to 2,200-2,400. He also drops his fat really low and walks a lot. He was 170lbs when he started this season (maybe 4-6 weeks ago) and is down to 159lbs already (at 5'10"). Every season it seems to get easier for him (his PUFA is always really low so I imagine he doesn't have much stored). He does have a physical job where he walks a lot and he takes thyroid.

Both myself and my friend have noticed that if you cut calories and take thyroid, somehow you don't get hungry whereas if you cut calories and don't take thyroid you get hungry easier. Not sure why this is, as it seems like it should be the opposite, but Ray mentioned once that he used to eat an insane amount of calories and when he started thyroid his caloric requirement dropped significantly.

Anyway, don't be afraid to lower your calories (if you want to lose weight), just don't lower them too much. Track your calories so you don't waste your time. Not only does tracking help you to not over eat but it also helps you to not under eat.

 

[scarlettsmum]

In my opinion a slight deficit in calories is the best and the way to achieve this is to track your calories. If you say "I want to lose weight" and you just cut out some junk, you may lose weight but you may not. You're just guessing.

Track your calories for a few weeks and figure out how much you normally eat. Once you have established a baseline, adjust your calories down by 500 or so. This will result in slow and steady fat loss.

Your baseline can change depending on your activity level, the type of foods you eat, what supplements you take and what kind of fat you have stored, but under normal circumstances it probably won't change too much.

If you have a lot of PUFA stored (you'd be guessing at this) then releasing that PUFA may alter your thyroid function and potentially lower the amount of calories you burn.

If you find your baseline and start dieting but at the same time add 1 hour of walking a day and weights a few times a week, your baseline is going to change.

A slight deficit, enough that you consistently lose 0.5-2 pounds a week, but also enough food that you're not constantly hungry, is the best way to lose weight.

You don't want your metabolism to drop with your reduction in calories. Thyroid can help with this and getting enough sugar can also help with this. Get enough fat to keep you full but not so much that you displace protein and carbohydrates. Protein should be 80+ (my opinion).

When I first started "Peating" I lost 45 pounds in 8 months by eating 2,200 to 2,500 calories. I didn't exercise at all but I did take cynomel. I focused heavily on fruit, dairy and coffee. My protein was around 100g, my fat was around 60g and my PUFA was around 3g. I don't work at a desk though, I am standing all day.

A friend of mine usually does a yearly "cut" before summer. He gains 10 or so pounds over the winter and when spring comes just drops his calories to 2,200-2,400. He also drops his fat really low and walks a lot. He was 170lbs when he started this season (maybe 4-6 weeks ago) and is down to 159lbs already (at 5'10"). Every season it seems to get easier for him (his PUFA is always really low so I imagine he doesn't have much stored). He does have a physical job where he walks a lot and he takes thyroid.

Both myself and my friend have noticed that if you cut calories and take thyroid, somehow you don't get hungry whereas if you cut calories and don't take thyroid you get hungry easier. Not sure why this is, as it seems like it should be the opposite, but Ray mentioned once that he used to eat an insane amount of calories and when he started thyroid his caloric requirement dropped significantly.

Anyway, don't be afraid to lower your calories (if you want to lose weight), just don't lower them too much. Track your calories so you don't waste your time. Not only does tracking help you to not over eat but it also helps you to not under eat.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I agree with you about creating a small deficit but not necessarily starving myself. I did track in the past in cronometer for about two weeks, but I'm just not happy with the fact that it can't possibly be 100% correct since a gourmet pizza is not home cooked pizza as an example of the choice offered from cronometer. Yes, I have kids, so we do have the occasional pizza that is not greasy. I would usually average 2000 calories/day and about 50% fat. I don't think cutting out as many as 500 calories would be a good decision for me, but I certainly need to stop eating more than needed. I wish I could supplement thyroid, but it gives me a crazy heart rate, so I'm afraid that's not an option for me. I'm just trying to eat my liver, seafood, milk, oj, eggs and at the same trying to eat enough but not too much. I'm also probably not eating enough protein but it is something I'm working on. Btw. I need to start moving again, thanks for the reminder. Thanks again for sharing your insight!

 

[mjrm]

Thanks for the detailed answer. I agree with you about creating a small deficit but not necessarily starving myself. I did track in the past in cronometer for about two weeks, but I'm just not happy with the fact that it can't possibly be 100% correct since a gourmet pizza is not home cooked pizza as an example of the choice offered from cronometer. Yes, I have kids, so we do have the occasional pizza that is not greasy. I would usually average 2000 calories/day and about 50% fat. I don't think cutting out as many as 500 calories would be a good decision for me, but I certainly need to stop eating more than needed. I wish I could supplement thyroid, but it gives me a crazy heart rate, so I'm afraid that's not an option for me. I'm just trying to eat my liver, seafood, milk, oj, eggs and at the same trying to eat enough but not too much. I'm also probably not eating enough protein but it is something I'm working on. Btw. I need to start moving again, thanks for the reminder. Thanks again for sharing your insight!

The tracking is onerous. In particular, at first and when you are homecooking...but you weigh everything out once and it will stay in your recent history. Yes, it is likely that it is not going to be 100% accurate but I don't think you need 100% accuracy to increase your consciousness around the amounts you are consuming-- especially in the instance that you are trying to reduce the amount of calories. The best thing about chronometer is it isnt just about the calories but you can also manage your averages over time and ensure you are getting the right micronutrients as well.

 

[tyler]

I think a slight caloric deficiet would be the best way to go about it. I wouldn't be afraid to drop calories below maintence.
Even in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, where participants caloric intake was drastically reduced for 24 weeks, the average metabolic rate slowdown was ~14%
I would imagine that any metabolic down-regulation you experience (if any) would be recovered fairly quickly upon eating at maintainence again.

 

[Milena]

Im interested to see the responses to this.

 

[tankasnowgod]

In my opinion a slight deficit in calories is the best and the way to achieve this is to track your calories. If you say "I want to lose weight" and you just cut out some junk, you may lose weight but you may not. You're just guessing.

Track your calories for a few weeks and figure out how much you normally eat. Once you have established a baseline, adjust your calories down by 500 or so. This will result in slow and steady fat loss.

Your baseline can change depending on your activity level, the type of foods you eat, what supplements you take and what kind of fat you have stored, but under normal circumstances it probably won't change too much.

If you have a lot of PUFA stored (you'd be guessing at this) then releasing that PUFA may alter your thyroid function and potentially lower the amount of calories you burn.

If you find your baseline and start dieting but at the same time add 1 hour of walking a day and weights a few times a week, your baseline is going to change.

A slight deficit, enough that you consistently lose 0.5-2 pounds a week, but also enough food that you're not constantly hungry, is the best way to lose weight.

You don't want your metabolism to drop with your reduction in calories. Thyroid can help with this and getting enough sugar can also help with this. Get enough fat to keep you full but not so much that you displace protein and carbohydrates. Protein should be 80+ (my opinion).

When I first started "Peating" I lost 45 pounds in 8 months by eating 2,200 to 2,500 calories. I didn't exercise at all but I did take cynomel. I focused heavily on fruit, dairy and coffee. My protein was around 100g, my fat was around 60g and my PUFA was around 3g. I don't work at a desk though, I am standing all day.

A friend of mine usually does a yearly "cut" before summer. He gains 10 or so pounds over the winter and when spring comes just drops his calories to 2,200-2,400. He also drops his fat really low and walks a lot. He was 170lbs when he started this season (maybe 4-6 weeks ago) and is down to 159lbs already (at 5'10"). Every season it seems to get easier for him (his PUFA is always really low so I imagine he doesn't have much stored). He does have a physical job where he walks a lot and he takes thyroid.

Both myself and my friend have noticed that if you cut calories and take thyroid, somehow you don't get hungry whereas if you cut calories and don't take thyroid you get hungry easier. Not sure why this is, as it seems like it should be the opposite, but Ray mentioned once that he used to eat an insane amount of calories and when he started thyroid his caloric requirement dropped significantly.

Anyway, don't be afraid to lower your calories (if you want to lose weight), just don't lower them too much. Track your calories so you don't waste your time. Not only does tracking help you to not over eat but it also helps you to not under eat.

Yep, this is pretty dead on. You can also use the Metabolism formulas (Like Mifflin St. Joer or Katch-McKardle) to estimate BMR, and the activity multiplier as a starting point as well. Activity trackers are another option, most give a daily estimated calorie burn.

 

[schultz]

Thanks for the detailed answer. I agree with you about creating a small deficit but not necessarily starving myself. I did track in the past in cronometer for about two weeks, but I'm just not happy with the fact that it can't possibly be 100% correct since a gourmet pizza is not home cooked pizza as an example of the choice offered from cronometer. Yes, I have kids, so we do have the occasional pizza that is not greasy. I would usually average 2000 calories/day and about 50% fat. I don't think cutting out as many as 500 calories would be a good decision for me, but I certainly need to stop eating more than needed. I wish I could supplement thyroid, but it gives me a crazy heart rate, so I'm afraid that's not an option for me. I'm just trying to eat my liver, seafood, milk, oj, eggs and at the same trying to eat enough but not too much. I'm also probably not eating enough protein but it is something I'm working on. Btw. I need to start moving again, thanks for the reminder. Thanks again for sharing your insight!

A 500 calorie deficit might be too much for you, I agree! That number was just an example of what I do.

As a note, if I am putting effort into losing fat and I am not seeing much progress then I lose interest. Therefore I like to see that 1-2 pounds per week because it motivates me, even if losing it a little slower is healthier. 2 pounds is a lot of fat lost in 1 week in my opinion. That's like a 7000 calorie deficit per week. I don't think people should expect more than this. 0.5 pounds would be excellent progress for you I think.

As far as eating out goes, I know how you feel about not being able to get an accurate cronometer input for those types of meals. I say just do your best and you'll probably be close. Mostly I avoid eating stuff that I can't easily count because I am OCD. My friend, the one I mentioned in the previous post, if he is going to eat a meal at a relatives house or something will keep his fat to almost zero and his calories low for the day leading up to the meal as a sort of counter balance and then just not count the meal.

Everyone has different ways of doing things. You obviously need to personalize your strategy. I posted originally not because I wanted to tell you what to do, but just to give you an example of a program that did actually work (for at least 1 person).

If you really seriously want to lose weight though, you have to put a bit of effort into it (at least most people do). Most people keep trying the same thing over and over and never get anywhere. These are the people that always seem to be "dieting". If it's not working, tweak something and try again. A person might just need something like a bit more muscle before trying. Gaining some muscle then trying to lose fat could actually be better than being atrophied and trying to lose fat.

 

[mjrm]

A 500 calorie deficit might be too much for you, I agree! That number was just an example of what I do.

As a note, if I am putting effort into losing fat and I am not seeing much progress then I lose interest. Therefore I like to see that 1-2 pounds per week because it motivates me, even if losing it a little slower is healthier. 2 pounds is a lot of fat lost in 1 week in my opinion. That's like a 7000 calorie deficit per week. I don't think people should expect more than this. 0.5 pounds would be excellent progress for you I think.

As far as eating out goes, I know how you feel about not being able to get an accurate cronometer input for those types of meals. I say just do your best and you'll probably be close. Mostly I avoid eating stuff that I can't easily count because I am OCD. My friend, the one I mentioned in the previous post, if he is going to eat a meal at a relatives house or something will keep his fat to almost zero and his calories low for the day leading up to the meal as a sort of counter balance and then just not count the meal.

Everyone has different ways of doing things. You obviously need to personalize your strategy. I posted originally not because I wanted to tell you what to do, but just to give you an example of a program that did actually work (for at least 1 person).

If you really seriously want to lose weight though, you have to put a bit of effort into it (at least most people do). Most people keep trying the same thing over and over and never get anywhere. These are the people that always seem to be "dieting". If it's not working, tweak something and try again. A person might just need something like a bit more muscle before trying. Gaining some muscle then trying to lose fat could actually be better than being atrophied and trying to lose fat.

how are you integrating exercise into what you're doing?

 

[Diokine]

Eat according to your appetite and cravings. Dr. Peat has said before that a lot of people eat when they aren't hungry - this doesn't necessarily serve you. I essentially live off of clean 2% milk, mushroom and parsley broth, and oranges with occasional steak and hamburgers and shrimps, cheese, etc. I'm not at all saying these things will work for you - but after lots of experimentation and observation I've found this is what works with me. My appetite has become very honed and I can tell what kind of foods I need, and I am simply not interested in things that don't appeal to my sense of taste or smell. I used to be hungry all the time, and I can now go a very long time without eating which I think is a direct consequence of lowering gut inflammation and allowing my liver to work better.

The past two months I have lost close to 10lbs without even trying, while gaining significant amounts of muscle. I do pretty serious physical training nearly every day and it's been a big factor as well.

 

[whodathunkit]

@scarlettsmum: don't forget that as your health improves, things that used to give you bad sides can start working for you. I call it the "Circle Back Around" strategy.

The better your metabolism runs, the more stimulation to it you can handle.

Thyroid, for instance. You might consider experimenting with gently taking some T3 every so often to see if it's still giving you the elevated heart rate or bad sides.

If you take a couple drops every couple/few hours that's not enough to cause you an extreme reaction but probably enough to test tolerance.

As a daily strategy, I have found this "very low dose" approach to be extremely helpful in helping me raise my metabolism.

But the first time I tried thyroid I didn't like it. When I came back to it later I had to tweak my strategy to get the benefits from it.

I personally can't do more than a couple drops of thyroid every couple hours. By thyroid I mean T3, not whole thyroid. Whole thyroid is not my friend for any protracted period of time, probably because T4 converts to T3 in the liver and if your liver isn't functioning up to snuff you might not get enough of the crucial T3 even if you're getting enough T4 (either by endogenous production or exogenous supplementation). Too much T4 without the conversion to T3 gives me problems, and I always have problems with T4 because my liver still isn't quite right. And even with isolated T3, if I do more than a couple drops every couple hours, I can get a bit strung out.

I've had this successful "Circle Back Around" type of experience with many things as my health and metabolism have improved. Stuff I couldn't take that I re-tried later with success. Successes include progesterone, thyroid, and B6.

Also, if you're drinking coffee or taking any other kind of methyl donor (like methylene blue or whatever), those raise metabolism and can intensify the effects of thyroid supplementation.

Just sayin'. Something to consider if you haven't tried it already. Also consider the distinction between T4 and T3 if you haven't already.​

 

[whodathunkit]

The past two months I have lost close to 10lbs without even trying, while gaining significant amounts of muscle.

Just curious...how long have you been Peating? Also, did you use any abx for gut inflammation or just natural remedies?