Losing Faith In Ray Peat

[BibleBeliever]

I drink a ton of coffee too.

Hoffer and Osmond would give people grams of niacin. I like their theory because it seems to make sense. If you look at adrenochrome, you will see that it is an indole.

Many indoles are psychedelic. DMT and psilocybin are indoles.

Adrenalin can actually turn into a psychedelic indole in the body. Strange but true.

I think I'll let other people comment on how much niacin to take. I am only in the theoretical stage right now. Perhaps I should order some niacin myself and experiment with it?

Here is the book. Chapter 3 is called: Adrenochrome and Some of Its Derivatives and starts on page 275 in Adobe and page 267 if you are looking at the text.

Besides this book, Hoffer wrote dozens of articles on this topic.

Thanks

 

[X3CyO]

No, it's not that complicated. Simplify, simplify simplify. Make one change at a time. For instance, eliminate obvious and extreme PUFA sources that are easiest to eliminate; when you cook, don't use margarine, soybean oil, canola oil, etc. when you can use butter, olive oil or coconut oil.



Sounds reasonable.



I'd value your kids' opinions a lot more than other family/friends. It's their bodies, let them decide what they want based on how they're feeling (assuming basic nutritional requirements are being met).



Yes, most here are way too extreme. Relax and simplify.

Health is a journey, and most problems can be reversed, but it's not going to happen overnight. Change one thing at a time and learn by trial and error. If you're changing everything at once, you won't be able to tell what's working from what isn't.[/QUOTE
this.

It took me a while to get out of an orthorexic state of mind and I still struggle at times.


Its not about going all in for a perfect diet, but instead learning about how ones body reacts to different types of food backed by science and some general guidelines on what has worked for others.

What ive also noticed is that peat emphasises ratios weither its cal to phos and since caffiene and sugar chelate phos it improves it. Making a general priority of it but not aiming for exactness is what makes it easy.

Its better to eat what you got and slowly change options than to not eat at all.

Hyper and hypo are very similar.

Supplements that arent vitamins or minerals require major foresight and all varibles should be tracked. Preg for example can lower cholesterol and lead to loss of breath; particularly when it comes to exercise for me.

Oh. And dont try to change others unless they ask. Its too stressful to manage other people with different beliefs.

Those are a few things Ive learned to accept when it comes to living realistically and improving my health. Especially since when I first started I turned myself into a complete mess living on juice, milk, and coffee.

I was miserable but rationalized that I was happy because I was "healthy" which was stressful and limiting in and of itself.

I can see why peat never advocated an exact diet now.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

You have to take responsibility for yourself. You shouldn't have had "faith" in Peat in the first place, you should have faith in yourself. Peat is just a biologist who may or may not have a health tip that works for you. You can't supplement your way out of a poor diet and you especially can't supplement your way out of life stress. Health results from healthful living but being healthy is boring which is why you said you eat out a lot and eat crappy bakery foods, for the pleasure. It's the pleasure trap and we're all stuck in it. No one can escape it but in order to be healthy you must learn how to fight the pleasure trap enough to where it doesn't cause problems. Can some people have a drink and not become a drunk? Yes but if you're an alcoholic then it's not you. Can some people eat the occasional junk food and not become fat/sick, yes but if you're fat/sick then it's not you.

You have to change. If the pain and suffering doesn't make you want to become more strict about your diet and proactive to fix your life stress then nothing will.

Do you think I like eating my boring diet and not going out and partying like I used to and eating deli subs? Of course I don't love it but then I remember how bad the pain and suffering of poor diet and late nights are and it forces me to then become happy that I do the things I do now. I now have other hobbies outside of eating and living healthy because I don't eat for pleasure or boredom anymore, I have other things to do.

Ray Peat encourages people to stop all supplementation.

No he doesn't. He recommends thyroid for almost everything and also recommends progesterone, pregnenolone, charcoal, cascara, flowers of sulphur, niacinamide and others for certain people/things. The importing thing though is that he only thinks those will do good if the diet and life stress are controlled. Taking those on top of poor diet and lots of life stress does nothing.

.

 

[Xisca]

I would be careful mainly with thyroid supplementation, as it can slow own production. We are not doctors as youy said. Same with progesterone, you take a lot. If supps do not work,, then they are not adapted, or there is something missing, did you see the topic about Katarina Dalton and progesterone? Without regular sugar level, no way to profit of progesterone.

Are your tests, and your children tests showing a strong hypo-thyroidism, or are you estimating this because of pulse and body temperature for example?

Have a look at the topic about temperature reset, it is running at the moment, and have a look at steve richfield website about his experience. It makes sense.
Temperature Reset à La Steve Richfield
Central Metabolic Control System Therapy
LowTemp

Especially, he says mother transmits this low temp, but just physically through the womb, no genetics involved.
And he says that when you reset your temps, then your medications will work better, and thyroid problem will get better.
Because your body will not anymore run on adrenaline to keep your temps high enough for going through your working day.

 

[Xisca]

The other is still following the Ray's diet reasonably well, but constipated for life. I just have to give him magnesium every single day.

Dairies constipate.
Mg helps of course.

 

[Herbie]

Health and 'the typical life' don't go together. I don't think people of the west can be healthy in todays world without living alternative to the mainstream.

the fat around the hips and thighs could be a sign of higher progesterone. If you were losing weight from those areas and increasing fat on the stomach then that would be cause for concern.

Are we too extreme? No because the mainstream are the extreme and hurtling towards extinction and we are trying to shift the course in a balanced direction.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

You have to take responsibility for yourself. You shouldn't have had "faith" in Peat in the first place, you should have faith in yourself. Peat is just a biologist who may or may not have a health tip that works for you. You can't supplement your way out of a poor diet and you especially can't supplement your way out of life stress. Health results from healthful living but being healthy is boring which is why you said you eat out a lot and eat crappy bakery foods, for the pleasure. It's the pleasure trap and we're all stuck in it. No one can escape it but in order to be healthy you must learn how to fight the pleasure trap enough to where it doesn't cause problems. Can some people have a drink and not become a drunk? Yes but if you're an alcoholic then it's not you. Can some people eat the occasional junk food and not become fat/sick, yes but if you're fat/sick then it's not you.

You have to change. If the pain and suffering doesn't make you want to become more strict about your diet and proactive to fix your life stress then nothing will.

Do you think I like eating my boring diet and not going out and partying like I used to and eating deli subs? Of course I don't love it but then I remember how bad the pain and suffering of poor diet and late nights are and it forces me to then become happy that I do the things I do now. I now have other hobbies outside of eating and living healthy because I don't eat for pleasure or boredom anymore, I have other things to do.

No he doesn't. He recommends thyroid for almost everything and also recommends progesterone, pregnenolone, charcoal, cascara, flowers of sulphur, niacinamide and others for certain people/things. The importing thing though is that he only thinks those will do good if the diet and life stress are controlled. Taking those on top of poor diet and lots of life stress does nothing.

.

 

[Richiebogie]

Hi @StressedMom,

Many autistic kids have found benefit going gluten free and dairy free.

Have you tried that on your children?

You will need to replace those foods with something. Eg fruit, seafood and sweet potatoes.

 

[Ella]

QUOTE="Optimus, post: 236694, member: 6039"]Drop every supplement and just focus on foods[/QUOTE]

What is missing is the real foods. If you supplement you need to know what you are doing. Don't go at it alone if you can't interpret tests - always test. Don't take gluten away from children if gluten is not their problem. Sourdough bread - there is hardly any gluten there. Must be organic. The problem is not always the gluten - it is the mycotoxins. Autistic children have loads of mycotoxins in their urine. With autism you DO need to test. Not for mycotoxins. Just take it as a given these will be high as they will be high in everyone that consumes processed foods, grains, seeds and any form of powder that sits on a shelf. Now with EMFs these toxins will be super high. Remember, many supplements are in a powdered form and will be high in mycotoxins. All maize is contaminated with these toxins. Make sure you are not living in a mouldy house. Move to a house where you are living on the high side of the hill. You don't want to be living in a valley or the bottom of hill. This is the most important thing you can do for your health and your children's health. Hard to escape from EMFs but we can make sure we choose wisely where we live.

I don't mean to overwhelm; only to inform that the problem needs to be attacked from many angles. Don't try to implement everything at once. One thing at a time. A good varied diet will enable you to feel stronger to tackle the challenges you face. Get help from extended family so you are not exhausting yourself.

Autistic children are extremely toxic. Usually, the first child will have the largest burden of heavy metals that were dumped from the mother during pregnancy. Toxicity is always the underlying problem. Alway aim to fix the underlying problem - gut first, then liver. This is why Ray focuses on foods. He has decades of experience and knowledge in knowing that food is powerful but for some reason people on this forum miss this point. Yes, I know too well that people are always looking for that quick fix and that magic pill - get this out of your head. We have enough experience and research to back up that it does not work and it will never work because we were designed to eat REAL FOOD and to live balanced lifestyles.

No one supplement or hormone is going to fix an overburdened toxic body.

Ray Peat encourages people to stop all supplementation. Supplements can be a problem.

Especially, when you have no idea of what you are doing. Even some practitioners have no idea and learn after they have found out the hard way by experimenting on their patients. Peat also encourages if what you are doing is not working then do the opposite or change it - obviously it is not the solution. Perhaps, it may be a solution but the reactions that you are experiencing are too aggressive and need to be modulated or slowed down. Supplements are problematic so testing should always dictate how to proceed. Food is also problematic if you have no idea how powerful it can be. Peat has thought long and hard on which foods are the most beneficial but this does not mean that these foods will make you feel good. Many of the foods will make you feel bad because they shift the body to work more efficiently. This does not translate into feeling good if you have had a poor diet to date and previous generations have had to contend with poor quality diet.

Liver needs detoxifying; cells need detoxifying and whole body organs need detoxifying. When crap comes out, like heavy metals, viruses, bacterial and fungal species, environmental toxins, preservatives and additives, toxic metals like iron, PUFAs and yes those toxic supplements that the body can't use; you are going to feel mighty sick. A good diet is going to be your saving grace and a strategy on how you are going to deal with a tsunami of toxins being released will make the journey more tolerable.

He actually recommends one eats a vast variety of foods and suggests that very restricted diets are terrible for the organism.

Yes, many of the problems we are seeing in the population today can be tracked back to silly notions promoted by fad diets which people are determined to adhere to. You need to know what toxicities and deficiencies you are dealing with and use this as your base on how to proceed. What is right for one person will be totally wrong for you. This is why were are all unique. Our mother's to which we were conceived had unique nutritional and environmental backgrounds imprinted onto you. Do not follow the crowd. Work with someone that can guide you. If you don't have money for testing, use the money to buy real food and not supplements. The best insurance policy is clean (glyphosate-chemical free) does not have to be organic. Home-grown is better than organic. See if you can join a community garden or start one yourself. You would be amazed at the abundance of food if you have little money. Nature is rich, but it does take effort on your behalf to harvest its bounty. Perhaps, there is someone who has a backyard garden you can offer to help in return for produce.

I don't know how old your children are but gardening would be excellent for them. Working in the sunshine, getting their hands in the dirt. All things which reduce inflammation in the body by restoring negative charges to the body. I garden barefoot and I would do it naked, but I have strange neighbours that go crazy about frogs singing and hate dogs and the sight of me naked would be too much for them. I don't want council or police land on my doorstep.

Ray doesn't take a ton of supplements. I think most people here do not take a lot of supplements for long term without issues. My personal view is that overtime you are looking for that 1 or 2 supplements that you personally need

Remineralising your body can take time but is achievable with a good diet and we should be doing it on a daily basis. This is the reason we need to eat REAL FOOD. We can try to speed things up with supplements but the consequences are not always pleasant.

i know the RP diet really well

I think many people truly do not understand why Peat favours certain foods over others and if you truly understood then you would not be supplementing. There is much more going on with the food.

Cooking is quite stressful as I am a full-time working mom. I am very time constrained;

Do you have a partner, extended family? You need to be extremely organised. I was a fulltime mum with three children. Travelling long distances, child-care drop-off and pick up. My children never ate childcare food, it was always homemade. I also did not have the luxury of disposable nappies. There were none of the basic luxuries. No electricity, no hot water (imagine dealing with cloth nappies and no hot water), no indoor toilet, no shower as we were building our house from scratch with a tiny baby. We had to boil the kettle to have a warm shower from a camping shower bag. All my cooking was on a gas bbq and electric frypan. It was insane but we were young and invincible. It was as close to nature as you can get.

I had to learn to be extremely organised. If your weekends are free, then batch cook. One day for shopping, one day to prepare all meals. This is better than trying to prepare meals in advance during the weeknight. Children need to be bathed, story time can eat into the night time hours. Can your mother, sister, sibling or friends come over to help prep meals. My daughter and I have got it down to 1 day. 1/2 day shopping, 1/2 day cooking for the whole week (breakfast, snacks & mains) Just washing dishes, prepping vegetables, keeping benches clean is a huge help. It sounds like quite a bit of effort, but it is nice to come home knowing that you don't have to think about "what's for dinner". I have taught all my children to do this as they have no time. I batch cook with my daughter and my boys do it together. The boys have learnt the hard way, making lots of mistakes along the way. You could employ a mother's helper. High school student looking for pocket money.

You need to time manage and get rid of activities do not contribute to the efficient running of your household. There was no TV for us as my schedule at home ran by the clock. TV was a time sink. I never read the papers. I was up 4.30am. I shopped early at the markets before work. You need to have a fridge at work or better a camping fridge in the car.

This means you need to have a lot of energy yourself to stay on top and a good diet without restricting calories. You need to make time to plan, schedule and organise. People assume that running a family just happens. It takes a lot of effort to make sure the household is running efficiently. Get rid of any distractions that chew into valuable time. If friends want to come round to see you, make sure you have a chore for them to do. You are busy and your time is valuable. Don't try to go it alone. Ask for help.

 

[GAF]

One's body craves the food one feeds it.

Start feeding it something else and in a few weeks your body will crave those things.

 

[StrongMom]

Dairies constipate.
Mg helps of course.

Why do dairies constripate? A RP staple should be metabolism boosting and hence improving intestinal motility, right? How about other proteins?

I heard this before especially about cheese. From Ray's perspective ther should be an explanation I guess.

 

[StrongMom]

the fat around the hips and thighs could be a sign of higher progesterone.

Seriously? That would be a game changer for me. Maybe all those pregnenolone and progesterone i have been taking was doing that!

 

[Herbie]

Seriously? That would be a game changer for me. Maybe all those pregnenolone and progesterone i have been taking was doing that!

Larger hips to smaller waist equates to higher fertility, attractiveness due to better progesterone to estrogen ratio and low androgens for a female.

 

[Regina]

And niacin would be the treatment of choice for childhood schizophrenia.

Niacin keeps neuroactive adrenochrome from forming from adrenaline:

View attachment 5490

Hoffer and Osmond have done over 50 trials on schizophrenia, adreochrome, and adrenolutin. I just got done reading 200 pages from their book.

Basically, they think that adrenochrome causes schizophrenia. They actually ran studies where they injected people with adreochrome and observed the effects and the written reports of the subjects themselves. This is without a doubt a most logical explanation and explains everything perfectly, but the psychiatry industry doesn't want such an easy and cheap fix after getting so many PhD's in psychoanalysis and such, not to mention the pharma companies and their drugs.

Ray Peat explains a small but important slice of reality, but not everything can be explained by hormones, iron, and fats. Besides Ray Peat, Hoffer and Osmond, Linus Pauling, and Albert Szent-Gyorgyi should be given due consideration too IMO.

Thanks for reading that book and sharing this insight here.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't know how old your children are but gardening would be excellent for them. Working in the sunshine, getting their hands in the dirt. All things which reduce inflammation in the body by restoring negative charges to the body.

Oh I would have hated that as a child.

 

[Luna]

Why do dairies constripate? A RP staple should be metabolism boosting and hence improving intestinal motility, right? How about other proteins?

I heard this before especially about cheese. From Ray's perspective ther should be an explanation I guess.

From another dieting website different than Ray's work (but I find it contradicting to Ray's work, and quite entertaining to read the opposing views), from Wai Says:
Wai Says

Milk
To make sure suckling drink enough mothers’ milk, and get enough sleep, mother’s milk of every mammal contains opioid peptides (2), enclosed in special proteins: casein, lactalbumin, beta-lactaglobulin and lactoferrin. The sedative effect of these peptides however can also cause constipation. (3) Babies easily absorb these molecules into the blood, but in older people a larger part remains in the digestive tract, sedating the bowels more effectively. These opioid peptides are relatively indigestible (4), and therefore can anaesthetize the bowels before they are decomposed. Butter does not cause constipation, containing only very little protein, but lots of bowel stimulating fat.
Wai Says
(2) Buts, J.P. Bioactive factors in milk. (in french) Arch. Pediatr. 1998 / 5 (3) / 298-306., Teschemacher, H. et al, Milk protein-derived opioid receptor ligands. Biopolymers. 1997 / 43 (2) / 99-117., Koldovsky, O., Search for the role of milk borne biologically active peptides for the suckling. J.Nutr. 1989 / 119 (11) / 1543-1551., Teschemacher, H. et al, Chemical characterization and opiod activity of an exorphin isolated from in vivo digests of casein. FEBS Lett. 1986 / 196 (2) / 223-227., Chang, K.-J. et al, Isolation of a specific mu-opiate receptor peptide, morphiceptin, from an enzymatic digest of milk proteins. J. Biol. Chem. 1985 / 260 (17) / pag. 9706-9712.
(3) Iacono, G. et al, Intolerance of cow's milk and chronic constipation in children. New England Journal of Medicine 1998 / 339 (16) / 1100-1104.
(4) Read, L.C. et al, Absorption of beta-casomorphins from autoperfused lamb and piglet small intestine. Am. J. Physiol. 1990 / 259 (3 pt 1) / G443-452.

 

[Ella]

Oh I would have hated that as a child.

That's because your mother never allowed you to get real dirty, like having mud baths. My kids were obsessed with digging. They were so adorable. The also loved the creepy crawlies. My youngest wanted to be an entomologist. They were convinced that there was gold to be found or precious gems. We also travelled around the country panning for gold and precious gems because of this obsession. I still have their rock collection. They would dig for hours on end in the backyard, at school and local creeks looking for their precious treasure. They are still playing with big earth machines for their living?

I worked surrounded by instrumentation and I was sick from the positive charge build-up in my body. I would have images about rolling in wet mud. I did not understand the relevance of these images. It was only when I started gardening barefoot and look at the science that I realised that it was my body's cry for negative charges. It feels so blissful. Sunshine and soil on the skin. I swear my need for food could be decreased by substituting food for light and soil. Not that I am advocating this as a new fad for people to attempt. I just know it feels good for me and it felt so healing when my body was so inflamed.

 

[moss]

I had to learn to be extremely organised. If your weekends are free, then batch cook. One day for shopping, one day to prepare all meals. This is better than trying to prepare meals in advance during the weeknight.

@StressedMom

This is so true, a routine is what will move you forward. Designating the weekend as Ella mentioned if it is free or some other day and hunt and gather and have a cook fest at least once a week, stock your freezer and have meals that you can pull out the night before for the next day. This will reduce the anxiety about what to eat. Get the kids involved in the cooking, it may be shambolic to start with, kids pick up quickly and then it becomes routine.

That's because your mother never allowed you to get real dirty, like having mud baths. My kids were obsessed with digging. They were so adorable. The also loved the creepy crawlies. My youngest wanted to be an entomologist. They were convinced that there was gold to be found or precious gems. We also travelled around the country panning for gold and precious gems because of this obsession. I still have their rock collection. They would dig for hours on end in the backyard, at school and local creeks looking for their precious treasure. They are still playing with big earth machines for their living?

I worked surrounded by instrumentation and I was sick from the positive charge build-up in my body. I would have images about rolling in wet mud. I did not understand the relevance of these images. It was only when I started gardening barefoot and look at the science that I realised that it was my body's cry for negative charges. It feels so blissful. Sunshine and soil on the skin. I swear my need for food could be decreased by substituting food for light and soil. Not that I am advocating this as a new fad for people to attempt. I just know it feels good for me and it felt so healing when my body was so inflamed.

Very funny.
I grew up downtown in a major city. Dirt was not on either of my parent's radar, in fact, both made Howard Hughes seem rather normal.
Now living in the country and having a garden, I can dig to my heart's content. Sun and a good dose of physicality and fresh air are astonishingly invigorating activities.
@Ella I shall try the barefoot gardening approach when it's not freezing and when I am not shovelling and making dry stone walls. I am situated in 'gold' country and when digging, forever hopeful a nugget will unearth itself in next the shovel load.
Gardening/digging is one of the best stress relievers and something about getting grounded brings you back into your body. Any problems that you may have had beforehand appear to reduce in their intensity or even turn to dust.

What is missing is the real foods.

@StressedMom

If I were you, I would ditch most, if not all of the supplements and start with food which you mentioned you enjoy, this is likely nothing new to you and maybe helpful to be reminded. Eating is a sensual business, make your food as visually appealing as possible, use colour, use the best quality you can afford. Be present when you are eating (best not to eat if you are upset, or don't do business over a meal because you won't digest your food properly and your liver won't like it either) chewing properly, turning the TV off whilst eating because there is a good chance you won't get the signal when you have had enough food and you are likely to react to what you see and your liver won't like it either.

Food is emotive, and humans, unlike animals, are prone to using food as a reward/punishment and that is a waste of time and a waste of food.

Scale it down to manageable chunks and keep it simple, sounds simple because it is.

At the risk of making this a 'likefest' of what Ella says, asking for help is worth its weight in gold. Reach out and get help.

 

[kiran]

Thanks @Dessert_All_Day @theLaw @kiran @PowertothePeatple @Optimus for all the support.

I am not a newbie; i know the RP diet really well and have been following it as much as i can. Reducing or eliminating pufa is not that hard but starch is! I just cannot do it. I love the taste so much and it is so satisfying, at least emotionally. I don't have a low carb etc. background. I love food, have a big appetite. I eat when stressed, when happy, etc. Appetite has never been an issue for me. If I am not careful i am always on an up trend in my weight. My understanding is this is due to too much estrogen. I try not to measure calories, carbs, protein as it stresses me out. I try to listen to my cravings. In the past, occasionally i had cravings for meat; however, since Peating it is gone. I guess in the past at some point I had protein deficiency, but not at this point. I add salt to taste; sugar was never an issue- I just can't live without it. I was a heavy dairy consumer anyway. So perhaps I had some protein deficiency and pufa overload before RP, but otherwise things were not extreme for me.

You should look into less-stressful ways of doing things.
You may want to eat meat, cravings or not. I find I do better with eating some beef everyday.

I tried to reduce their thyroid medications just a tiny bit.

Don't fall into the trap of reducing meds because you feel they should not need it.
I've done this a few times and regretted it. Were they having hyper symptoms?
Do you feel it doesn't agree with them perhaps because of too much T4, or an allergy to NDT, etc?

 

[Xisca]

Why do dairies constripate? A RP staple should be metabolism boosting and hence improving intestinal motility, right? How about other proteins?
I heard this before especially about cheese. From Ray's perspective ther should be an explanation I guess.

I could write 3 pages about your 3 lines...
There is no important why, just look at the result.
There is only one thing important in this forum, so to say:

Perceive, think, act.
Perceive that your kid is constipated, you have heard that it can be dairy, but you do not follow what you perceive, because of what you beleive.
Act, change something!

I do use dairies to not have loose stools...

You want to know why? All about colon flora, I donot say gut, but colon. We all have flora, and it changes according to the diet, thus the turist when we travel.
There is no RP staple, and milk of nearly wild animals in africa is not the sh.. we can buy in shops.
I went back to dairies only because I have fresh raw milk dairy where I now live.