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Losing all hope here. Dandruff fiasco

GorillaHead

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Thank you so much for the reply.

Can you be as detailed as possible as to what you did and how the progression of relief of symptoms went?

You took the 4% solution all over your body in the shower? How long till you washed it off? Did you shampoo after or anything similar? Did you skin on face/scalp become dry? Did you use anything to moisturize after? Did any other lifestyle changes coincide with this? Do you use normal shampoo or special natural ways of cleaning in the shower? Did you have the read skin to scaly skin transition every few days before on face and scalp?

Did you use this product?
View attachment 41565


What exact ingredients did your product have? Can you link the exact product ? Is the product completely liquid and you douse yourself straight from the bottle? Did you take any special care to wash bed sheets often during the treatment? Did it have any effect on hair health? Did it burn/sting on the skin? Do you shower once a day or less since being symptom free (daily showers can sometimes mask the rapid skin shedding turnout sebderm sufferers have, where in 3 days they get rid of the same amount of skin cells a normal person sheds in a month, thus creating the scales on the skin, but just washing it off very often can mask the high turnover rate, but usually leads to red inflamed skin instead from all the washing and damaging the skin).
Anything else you can think of. It sounds very promising.

I order a 20% concentrate only containing chlorhexidinecluconate and water and will mix a 4% solution on my own.
That’s a lot of questions and not to be rude but I think most irrelevant. But mainly I applied it all over my body and let it sit 5 minutes rubbing it in. No side effects I can’t tell u all the ingredients in the product. But yes that the product. I also attacked the bacteria in my mouth with listerine
 

Summer

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You just have to be VERY careful not get any in your eyes or your ears.
 

yashi

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That’s a lot of questions and not to be rude but I think most irrelevant. But mainly I applied it all over my body and let it sit 5 minutes rubbing it in. No side effects I can’t tell u all the ingredients in the product. But yes that the product. I also attacked the bacteria in my mouth with listerine
Yeah, that's fine. They are not needed to be answered. If any of them had struck you as important then the question would have reminded you of that and you would have selectively replied to it. That's mainly what the questions were for and you just now answered the most important ones of the bunch (which product and application). So thanks, will report back.
 

GorillaHead

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So i have been going back to basic and doing a full circle trying to figure out this issue since i just can’t give up.

So ultimately i am going back to focusing on internal solutions.

Here is what i have gathered.

thyroid seems to be related

Anecdotes of sucess from people center around

Accutane,
Retinol
Zinc
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Vitamin D

with zinc, retinol and thyroid having the largest footprint.

Now of course i have tried these but then i saw this the other day, one of the only visual documented cases of a women curing her dandruff through thyroid apparently



i also noticed when i upped my selenium AND iodine my dandruff got worse
 

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GorillaHead

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So after realizing calcium supplementation lead to what i can only describe as a 300% increase in dandruff. I circled back to sodium. I realized I at most consume 2 grams of sodium a day and I feel like the optimal around is around 4-5 grams. I will be testing to see if this has any influence on my dandruff.
 

L_C

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So after realizing calcium supplementation lead to what i can only describe as a 300% increase in dandruff. I circled back to sodium. I realized I at most consume 2 grams of sodium a day and I feel like the optimal around is around 4-5 grams. I will be testing to see if this has any influence on my dandruff.
I am wondering if vitamin A/retinol has any influence on dandruff.
 

GorillaHead

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I am wondering if vitamin A/retinol has any influence on dandruff.
On ny research on this forum. Retinol seems to have helped 40% of the people but whats odd in almost all admitted cases they all took massive doses that are just honestly no way achievable without supplements. While 60% found the opposite where retinol no matter the dossage made things worse. Two pubmed studies. One claim tretinoin induced seb derm. The other says it cured it. My best explanation for this is we are dealing with two different etiologies that have similar manifestations that the ibdustry has a done a bad job at recognizing. Oily seb derm. VS dry seb derm.


The oily cases I have seen and read about. Are cases where the dandruff flakes are chunky and scaly in size. And in many cases anything that helps reduce oil production seems to help or solve the issue.


The dry case I have experienced and read anout are cases where the dandruff is white. Powdery and dusty and the reduction of oil seems to worsen the issue.
 
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Years ago, in the 90s I briefly had really bad dandruff. I paid a couple $ online for the "cure". It actually worked. It involved soaking the scalp in apple cider vinegar and sleeping in it for 3 nights in a row. You could rinse it in the morning. I thought it smelled awful but was assured by my mom and boyfriend that they couldn't smell it when dry. Anyway I have not had it since! This also worked for my 12 year old daughter last year when she had dandruff and it hasn't returned yet. Maybe it could take more applications for the beard since it won't stay wet like the head wrapped in a plastic bag and towel...worth a try though!
Yes. My husband used vinegar rinses when he had some dandruff and it worked. He didn’t sleep with it but just did a rinse in the shower, let it stay on a little while, and then rinsed it off. He shampooed it out afterwards because of the vinegar smell.
 

L_C

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On ny research on this forum. Retinol seems to have helped 40% of the people but whats odd in almost all admitted cases they all took massive doses that are just honestly no way achievable without supplements. While 60% found the opposite where retinol no matter the dossage made things worse. Two pubmed studies. One claim tretinoin induced seb derm. The other says it cured it. My best explanation for this is we are dealing with two different etiologies that have similar manifestations that the ibdustry has a done a bad job at recognizing. Oily seb derm. VS dry seb derm.


The oily cases I have seen and read about. Are cases where the dandruff flakes are chunky and scaly in size. And in many cases anything that helps reduce oil production seems to help or solve the issue.


The dry case I have experienced and read anout are cases where the dandruff is white. Powdery and dusty and the reduction of oil seems to worsen the issue.
I have the same thing as you, dry flakes. At first I thought it's from eating dairy. So, I stopped eating it for some months and it never went away. I do live in dry environment and never had this problem until I moved here. My face though is oily, especially first thing in the morning.

Then, I suppose it must be some sort of gut inflammation. Usually scalp corresponds to gut health.
 

GorillaHead

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I have the same thing as you, dry flakes. At first I thought it's from eating dairy. So, I stopped eating it for some months and it never went away. I do live in dry environment and never had this problem until I moved here. My face though is oily, especially first thing in the morning.

Then, I suppose it must be some sort of gut inflammation. Usually scalp corresponds to gut health.
What evidence do u have if u dont mind me asking where scalp is shown to correlate with gut health?
 

L_C

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What evidence do u have if u dont mind me asking where scalp is shown to correlate with gut health?
It's just wild theory of mine. I used to eat fermented dairy that caused massive scalp inflammation and hair shedding. I stopped eating that and the things got better but I am not completely out of the woods.
 

GorillaHead

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It's just wild theory of mine. I used to eat fermented dairy that caused massive scalp inflammation and hair shedding. I stopped eating that and the things got better but I am not completely out of the woods.
How interesting.


You know that what they found in studies oleic acid induced dandruff in those who would get dandruff. But those who never had dandruff they never got effect from oleic acid. Which tells me something is wrong with our skin barrier.


Here is a list of key pieces of information that if understood could solve the issue:

Oleic Acid induces dandruff in in dandruff prone individuals

Dandruff is believed to be caused by fatty acids (oleic) produced but fungi consuming fatty acids from the skin and leave Oleic acid, this is odd because retinol reduces sebaceous lipids yet it many cases increases dandruff

Dandruff seems to be mainly in areas of the the face, I have seen very little flaking in other parts of my body where there is hair, but ultimately wherever there is hair it can happen but mainly hair on the skull.



Possible Issues:
We could be missing a fatty acid that needs to be excreted to stabilize our skin.
Could be gut related
Could be demodex
 
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GorillaHead

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Here you go yall
 

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GorillaHead

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So here is what’s going in that chart That’s very meaningful,

Control has way higher serum fatty acids of Linoleic acids but half the stearic acid levels of sebboreic dermatitis. Control has almost 3 times more oleic acid than the sebboreic dermatitis group.

So there are a few interpretations,

Controls have higher Linoleic acid in serum because they consume more and that’s why they dont have issues

Control has higher Linoleic acid in serum because their body moves less of the fatty acid to the skin.

Controls have higher oleic acid in serum because they consume more and that’s why they dont have issues

Control has higher Linoleic acid in serum because their body moves less of the fatty acid to the skin.

Controls have half as much stearic acid in serum because they don’t consume as much.

Control have half as much stearin acid in serum because the fatty acid is appropriately shuttled to the skin.


So based on this Data one can trial a few experiments, increasing Oleic acid consumption, or Linoleic acid consumption, (which honestly I don’t think will work Either because the issues is a transporter to the skin or this isn’t the fatty acid we are deficient in)

Ultimately we either need more oleic, linoleic or stearic acid, or our fatty acids are not making it to the skin for some reason
 

GorillaHead

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Will be running a 5 day experiment on a high saturated fat diet mainly stearic. So we shall see if that makes a difference.


All the data points to pufa being the solution yet if that was the case any junk food slash fast food. Shouldve solved our issue yet thats not the case. Yet i have read numerous carnivore diets solving the problem
 

L_C

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Will be running a 5 day experiment on a high saturated fat diet mainly stearic. So we shall see if that makes a difference.


All the data points to pufa being the solution yet if that was the case any junk food slash fast food. Shouldve solved our issue yet thats not the case. Yet i have read numerous carnivore diets solving the problem
Hm, let us know how it went ;)
 

GorillaHead

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So a few things. Saturated only fat diet did not do anything. How ever. I have come realize that everytime i get warm by drinking alcohol. The dandruff stops. This has been a consistent observation for years.

I theorize that the microvasculature of the skin is weak and this results in dandruff. How. Well it turns out under hypoxic conditions skin will desquamate. So hypoxia is likely due to lack of blood flow. I have no idea how this can be solved its possible thyroid is truly the problem.
 

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