Looking for a "lesser evil" anti-anxiety drug

[A.R]

Ray Peat quotes on thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

Peat is not a fan of ethanol. But suit yourself.

It is important to always do your own research before embarking on supplementation of anything. This goes double if you are considering giving the supplement to someone other than yourself.

Thanks a lot from bringing my attention to these quotes!

Interesting about the ethanol. How do you personally supplement your Bvitamins/what product do you recommend? (I know food is best option, but I would like to have a supplement on hand always)

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks a lot from bringing my attention to these quotes!

Interesting about the ethanol. How do you personally supplement your Bvitamins/what product do you recommend? (I know food is best option, but I would like to have a supplement on hand always)

I use pure thiamine hcl powder from bulksupplements.com. Purebulk.com is another source for the pure powder. I mix it into a glass of water. It dissolves very easily, no need for a solvent. I also simply stir riboflavin and niacinamide into water, then drink it. They dissolve very easily. The Riboflavin needs more stirring though as it tends to clump. I don't supplement b6 or b12. Biotin pure powder is hydrophobic so it needs more vigorous stirring and a little patience.

 

[A.R]

L

I use pure thiamine hcl powder from bulksupplements.com. Purebulk.com is another source for the pure powder. I mix it into a glass of water. It dissolves very easily, no need for a solvent. I also simply stir riboflavin and niacinamide into water, then drink it. They dissolve very easily. The Riboflavin needs more stirring though as it tends to clump. I don't supplement b6 or b12. Biotin pure powder is hydrophobic so it needs more vigorous stirring and a little patience.

I use pure thiamine hcl powder from bulksupplements.com. Purebulk.com is another source for the pure powder. I mix it into a glass of water. It dissolves very easily, no need for a solvent. I also simply stir riboflavin and niacinamide into water, then drink it. They dissolve very easily. The Riboflavin needs more stirring though as it tends to clump. I don't supplement b6 or b12. Biotin pure powder is hydrophobic so it needs more vigorous stirring and a little patience.

Yeah I live in the UK and can’t really find a good source for the powders. Also I thought I’ll also need to invest in a mg scale. Then I already have so much other individual amino acid pouches, the individual b vitamins will just add to that. Having it all in one bottle is so much more convenient and time saving.

Would you be able to link/find the quote about Ethanol?

 

[InChristAlone]

How open minded is your family member?

Could check out Golden euphorics for safe access to pre-made micro doses of psilocybin.

They're very high quality/discreet.

Much safer than benzos & SSRIs.

I see a lot of folks here assuming the person is overweight, but usually anxious people under eat which mean they're not only likely severely mineral deficient but swimming in cortisol/serotonin/ramped up adrenals etc.

I was put onto benzos for my C-PTSD in my 20s, on them for a decade, it took me TWO YEARS to safely & horrendously taper off of them with liquid titration.

Fun fact, benzos cause anxiety/agoraphobia. No, seriously, it's in the pamphlet. They're not meant to be used for more than 72 hours.

Anyhow I went from being in disability because of serious anxiety to I literally never feel anxious.

1.) I began eating real food.

2.) Focused on remineralization.

3.) Faced my issues/trauma ruthlessly.

4.) Used really tiny amounts of psilocybin/amanita muscaria to help my brain shift out of the direct mode network that makes us travel down the same pathways i.e. behaviors.

If they need something to ramp them down during an attack as they face issues buy them some phenbit BUT only take 3-5mg & ONLY during an attack. People can become dependent if they start using a crap ton 24/7.

I can only imagine how hard it was getting off the benzo. I'm forever grateful I didn't use them for my panic disorder as getting off would have been harder than just going thru the panic attacks.

 

[A.R]

I can only imagine how hard it was getting off the benzo. I'm forever grateful I didn't use them for my panic disorder as getting off would have been harder than just going thru the panic attacks.

Which supplement/particular food helped you the most in managing your panic disorder? (Other than cypro)

 

[mostlylurking]

L


Yeah I live in the UK and can’t really find a good source for the powders. Also I thought I’ll also need to invest in a mg scale. Then I already have so much other individual amino acid pouches, the individual b vitamins will just add to that. Having it all in one bottle is so much more convenient and time saving.

Would you be able to link/find the quote about Ethanol?

Programmable Search Engine Scroll down a little to find the articles on Peat's website.
Also, you can search the forum for Ethanol or Ethanol safety. This may seem a little picky of me considering the amount of ethanol in Idealabs' formulas, but if the product with the thiamine has 20% ethanol and 50mg of thiamine in 25 drops (?) and I need 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl, the product would not work for me. I don't think. The transdermal absorption vs. the absorption in the small intestine are going to be different; I would not know how to compare them. In addition, alcohol uses up thiamine (or restricts its absorption) so putting alcohol with it for supplementation seems counterintuitive.

 

[A.R]

Programmable Search Engine Scroll down a little to find the articles on Peat's website.
Also, you can search the forum for Ethanol or Ethanol safety. This may seem a little picky of me considering the amount of ethanol in Idealabs' formulas, but if the product with the thiamine has 20% ethanol and 50mg of thiamine in 25 drops (?) and I need 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl, the product would not work for me. I don't think. The transdermal absorption vs. the absorption in the small intestine are going to be different; I would not know how to compare them. In addition, alcohol uses up thiamine (or restricts its absorption) so putting alcohol with it for supplementation seems counterintuitive.

Haidut has said that ethanol actually potentiates the effects of topical absorption. Interesting.

Do you personally supplement 2g of thiamine a day?

 

[mostlylurking]

Haidut has said that ethanol actually potentiates the effects of topical absorption. Interesting.

Well, yes ethanol does that. But if you search for "thiamine and alcohol" or "thiamine and ethanol" it looks like the two shouldn't be mixed. Thiamine can get used up in the body, for example by heavy metals, or too much sugar, or refined carbohydrates which cause a thiamine deficiency. I think that alcoholics get into trouble via thiamine deficiency because the alcohol uses up the thiamine the same as refined sugar does. Thiamine function can also get blocked by things like the tannins in tea and coffee and also many pharmaceutical drugs. I just prefer to be on the safe side and measure out my thiamine and stir it into water and drink it. Tastes terrible. But Dr. Costantini warns not to mix thiamine hcl into fruit juice because the sugar in the juice cancels out the thiamine.

 

[A.R]

Well, yes ethanol does that. But if you search for "thiamine and alcohol" or "thiamine and ethanol" it looks like the two shouldn't be mixed. Thiamine can get used up in the body, for example by heavy metals, or too much sugar, or refined carbohydrates which cause a thiamine deficiency. I think that alcoholics get into trouble via thiamine deficiency because the alcohol uses up the thiamine the same as refined sugar does. Thiamine function can also get blocked by things like the tannins in tea and coffee and also many pharmaceutical drugs. I just prefer to be on the safe side and measure out my thiamine and stir it into water and drink it. Tastes terrible. But Dr. Costantini warns not to mix thiamine hcl into fruit juice because the sugar in the juice cancels out the thiamine.

Ok yes that makes more sense to me.

Do you take the full 2g dose at once?

 

[mostlylurking]

Ok yes that makes more sense to me.

Do you take the full 2g dose at once?

No. I'm following Dr. Costantini's protocol here: HDT Therapy I take 1 gram of thiamine hcl mid-morning before lunch and 1 gram of it around 3:00pm.

 

[A.R]

No. I'm following Dr. Costantini's protocol here: HDT Therapy I take 1 gram of thiamine hcl mid-morning before lunch and 1 gram of it around 3:00pm.

Thank you

 

[mostlylurking]

Thank you

you're welcome.

 

[InChristAlone]

Which supplement/particular food helped you the most in managing your panic disorder? (Other than cypro)

I haven't found anything very good honestly. I didn't try herbs or phenibut or anything like that, I've tried niacinamide that does have some anti-anxiety effects but it can be the opposite depending on how well fed you are and it does use up methyl groups so if you already don't have enough I wonder if that could make the overall condition worse. I used about 40 mg a day along with vitamin C and cypro to get over panic attacks. I don't think the niacinamide did much. The best thing I ever did for panic disorder is learn how to face them head on. Once you really face the panic it disappears because what was keeping it alive was the fear of having one.

 

[InChristAlone]

@A.R just saw your niacinamide post. I would say if it causes that jittery feeling probably not a good idea to take it. It didn't usually do that for me, but sometimes it did.

 

[A.R]

@A.R just saw your niacinamide post. I would say if it causes that jittery feeling probably not a good idea to take it. It didn't usually do that for me, but sometimes it did.

Thank you

 

[I'm.No.One]

I can only imagine how hard it was getting off the benzo. I'm forever grateful I didn't use them for my panic disorder as getting off would have been harder than just going thru the panic attacks.

It was... Well there's a reason it has a high suicide rate from withdrawal.

The worst part was I was always a person who avoided meds, the lady told me "it will help you remember what normal feels like."

There's nothing normal about how it makes you feel.

The only benefit I see from them is if I hadn't walked through that hell I wouldn't have ended up where I am now kinda deal.

 

[ivy]

I wonder why no one has mentioned GABA. It's mild but effective, and non-addictive. Helped restore my sanity and sleep after a bad breakup messed me up. If I recall, I took 500mg in the morning and 500mg in the evening; at a later stage, the morning capsule was no longer needed. Liposomal GABA, despite being marketed as the most available, doesn't seem to work as well for me, tried it last year in a work-intensive period.

For the sake of comparison, I found GABA much better than prescription drugs like Temazepam or Valium. Both knocked me out for three or four hours and made waking up very unpleasant.

 

[Peatness]

Not a substitute for good nutrition but might help

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[OliviaD]

In my experience, nothing the doctor gives is safe. As with me, the doctor will prescribe either an SSRI or a benzo. Probably the former.

Option 1 will probably cause apathy, anhedonia, loss of empathy and feeling in general, and sexual dysfunction. Sometimes the effects are permanent.

Option 2, if taken daily or frequently, will lead to rapid tolerance, addiction, and then hellacious withdrawal.

Propranolol can help some, but it’s mainly for a targeted situation like giving a presentation.

Adaptogenic supplements like ash, tongkat ali, l-theanine provide a little relief, but it’s short lived and usually results in rebound anxiety.

I have not found a supplement or prescription drug that works consistently or provides long term relief without relatively serious side effects.

Anxiety can sometimes be caused by physical health issues. Could check testosterone, thyroid, blood sugar, etc. If an issue is discovered, work on resolving it to see if the anxiety improves.

Otherwise, I don’t think targeted anxiety medication will be a good long term solution. The anxiety medications come with significant side effects. I guess if I were to choose one over the other, I’d go with the benzo, but only for a short amount of time.

PSSD is real and can happen after only a few doses, so I’d pass on the SSRI.

Hopefully you find a solution. I’ve been unsuccessful so far.

Because I am cynical, my general thinking now is that everything the mainstream medical system tries to scare me away from, or keep me from getting is possibly good or ok. Here I am referencing the benzos - well one I guess. I used to have panic attacks, claustrophobia, couldn't ride elevators, etc. Clonazepem helped me enormously. Also during periods of severe anxiety/stress. I have used them off/on for those things, and have never gotten addicted. I would often have a bottle sit for months. Eventually the panic attacks and claustrophobia, and other severe anxiety states went away. I don't know why either. It actually did something for anxiety. I've never developed a tolerance or needed more than 0.5 to 1 mg to achieve results.

I'm obviously not suggesting this for anyone, or that it is a "good' thing. For me, it worked well. I still have a bottle of 60 my physician gives me, that usually lasts a year. I now use it once in a while for sleep, and when I have severe pain due to my GI disorder. Paradoxically, when I am in a lot of pain, it feels almost as though my bowels are relaxing and I will be able to have bowel movements more easily. There is nothing else to offer me - and it helps. My goal, of course, is always not to need it, but for me - I guess it has been a good all purpose drug. I do have it to use, but I could go without it if I had to and never had any withdrawal symptoms (that I was aware of). I also do not take it more than a couple of times a week.. and always only 1 or 1/2 tab.

Every drug has side effects, but these have been around forever, are dirt cheap, and I know how my body reacts. It is interesting, b/c if I take benedryl, which is over the counter - I am zombie-fied, and feel cognitively impaired, and even notice results into the next day. The clonazepam makes me feel relaxed but still functional and with my mind intact.

 

[AlisonG]

How open minded is your family member?

Could check out Golden euphorics for safe access to pre-made micro doses of psilocybin.

They're very high quality/discreet.

Much safer than benzos & SSRIs.

I see a lot of folks here assuming the person is overweight, but usually anxious people under eat which mean they're not only likely severely mineral deficient but swimming in cortisol/serotonin/ramped up adrenals etc.

I was put onto benzos for my C-PTSD in my 20s, on them for a decade, it took me TWO YEARS to safely & horrendously taper off of them with liquid titration.

Fun fact, benzos cause anxiety/agoraphobia. No, seriously, it's in the pamphlet. They're not meant to be used for more than 72 hours.

Anyhow I went from being in disability because of serious anxiety to I literally never feel anxious.

1.) I began eating real food.

2.) Focused on remineralization.

3.) Faced my issues/trauma ruthlessly.

4.) Used really tiny amounts of psilocybin/amanita muscaria to help my brain shift out of the direct mode network that makes us travel down the same pathways i.e. behaviors.

If they need something to ramp them down during an attack as they face issues buy them some phenbit BUT only take 3-5mg & ONLY during an attack. People can become dependent if they start using a crap ton 24/7.

The family member would be open to micro-dosing but the legality is an issue as it might create more anxiety. I'm thinking Golden Euphorics must be out of Oregon or DC? When you say "discreet", do you mean regarding "labeling"?