MrBenjamin

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Is Androsterone available over-the-counter, and if so, where can it be found? Are there any affordable sources?
 

managing

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@haidut I did some research and saw cases of aromatase inhibitors potentially activating autoimmune diseases and liver damage. Not sure if this poses a concern for Androsterone and Pansterone.

Do you think these two are pointless to take if doing very small doses? Like a few mg of Andro a week? I've been doing 3mg/day (SFA) for almost 2-3 months with some days missed. I feel now that it's too much, but wasn't sure if lower dose is worse or pointless.

The only other supps I take are Glycine, Zinc, Proline, and all of the fat soluble vitamins.

Assuming you mean pharma aromatase inhibitors, I don't think you can extrapolate to hormones just because those hormones may (as part of a natural process that happens regardless of whether we supplement them) also inhibit aromatase, among other things. Its kind of like saying that somebody was killed when they were hit by a truck carrying sugar. Therefore, sugar kills and we should avoid it.
 

managing

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"I believe this (stink) to be a symptom of dehydration." I think there is something to this....
Yeah, I don't doubt what @Steene is saying. But I do believe there is a relative effect here. I've always gotten that from anything that boosts androgens. Until I started taking mg glycinate. And then if I boost androgen further, I need more Mg to balance it out or that aroma comes back. OTOH, its quite possible that something else triggers that for @Steene . Still, I think its something most people should consider w/ androgen boosting activity.

And I agree, its not a microbial sweat smell. Its a musky, manly stink.
 
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Peatogenic

Peatogenic

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Assuming you mean pharma aromatase inhibitors, I don't think you can extrapolate to hormones just because those hormones may (as part of a natural process that happens regardless of whether we supplement them) also inhibit aromatase, among other things. Its kind of like saying that somebody was killed when they were hit by a truck carrying sugar. Therefore, sugar kills and we should avoid it.

I didn't think I had to preface that, you know, mushrooms are an aromatase inhibitor, and stuff like that because Androsterone is obviously so much more powerful than eating mushrooms. So I disagree with your logic. But I'm also not saying that AIs cause liver damage.
 

managing

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I didn't think I had to preface that, you know, mushrooms are an aromatase inhibitor, and stuff like that because Androsterone is obviously so much more powerful than eating mushrooms. So I disagree with your logic. But I'm also not saying that AIs cause liver damage.
More powerful? Sure. Bu that isn't where I am coming from. There are various hormones circulating through your body right now inhibiting aromatase. There are no pharmaceutical AI, or mushrooms (unless you've recently consumed them) in your body.

That does not mean you can't get them out of balance (the hormones). It doesn't mean they can't cause harm. I am merely saying that the two actions (pharma AI vs hormone AI) are entirely dissimilar (hence my sugar truck analogy). So I don't think a problem with one suggests anything about the other. That doesn't mean that twiddling with hormones can't cause harm. Just that any pharma ai issues do not imply that.
 
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Peatogenic

Peatogenic

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More powerful? Sure. Bu that isn't where I am coming from. There are various hormones circulating through your body right now inhibiting aromatase. There are no pharmaceutical AI, or mushrooms (unless you've recently consumed them) in your body.

That does not mean you can't get them out of balance (the hormones). It doesn't mean they can't cause harm. I am merely saying that the two actions (pharma AI vs hormone AI) are entirely dissimilar (hence my sugar truck analogy). So I don't think a problem with one suggests anything about the other. That doesn't mean that twiddling with hormones can't cause harm. Just that any pharma ai issues do not imply that.

How are pharma AIs different?
 

managing

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How are pharma AIs different?
How are they not different is a better question. The only way they are similar is they inhibit aromatase.

Now take hormones that inhibit aromatase. Do they do other things? Sure. Should we be concerned about those other things? Well, it would be careless to ignore them altogether, but are there any real concerns? No, no there are not.

Now take Pharma AIs. Do they do other things? Yes, most certainly. Many of which we don't even know. Do they have other ingredients besides the AI? Yes, yes they do. And we know little about what they are or what they do.

One is a natural process of the body. The other is a foreign substance. I've been hesitant to use the word "natural" because it is indeed used in silly ways to defend things (like progesterone from a potato is somehow better than from a lab). But in this case its simply parsimonious. They are two entirely different things. Again, this does not mean that the AI inhibiting actions of natural hormones can't cause harm. But it does mean that an observation of harm from pharma AI's does not prove that it is the act of inhibiting aromatase that is the culprit. You can't assume that. Therefore you can't reason from pharma AIs to natural hormones that inhibit aromatase.
 
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Peatogenic

Peatogenic

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How are they not different is a better question. The only way they are similar is they inhibit aromatase.

Now take hormones that inhibit aromatase. Do they do other things? Sure. Should we be concerned about those other things? Well, it would be careless to ignore them altogether, but are there any real concerns? No, no there are not.

Now take Pharma AIs. Do they do other things? Yes, most certainly. Many of which we don't even know. Do they have other ingredients besides the AI? Yes, yes they do. And we know little about what they are or what they do.

One is a natural process of the body. The other is a foreign substance. I've been hesitant to use the word "natural" because it is indeed used in silly ways to defend things (like progesterone from a potato is somehow better than from a lab). But in this case its simply parsimonious. They are two entirely different things. Again, this does not mean that the AI inhibiting actions of natural hormones can't cause harm. But it does mean that an observation of harm from pharma AI's does not prove that it is the act of inhibiting aromatase that is the culprit. You can't assume that. Therefore you can't reason from pharma AIs to natural hormones that inhibit aromatase.

Ok, thank you..
 

ddjd

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Do not take Androsterone orally it will be metabolized by your liver completely and excreted afterwards.
you mean it wont be absorbed or that it will cause liver toxicity?
 

ddjd

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Ive crashed my E using just 2 drops of andro on its own. Knees pain has been so annoying I've been unable to have a good quality sleep. Libido dropped significantly as well. I don't even think of sex. Pansterone is on the way so I'll try using it together with andro.
exact same thing happened to me . i became asexual. but i think my hair health improved considerably. dandruff completely stopped. were you using the 2 drops topically or orally?
 

managing

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you mean it wont be absorbed or that it will cause liver toxicity?
I suppose it could stress the liver, although I doubt it. I would imagine @Steene point was that it would not be useful to you in whatever form the liver output it.
 

Vinero

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Someone asked Ray about this (he was specifically asking about Androsterone).

goodandevil: "I experienced profound joint pain and arthropathy, a very severe creaking from every joint. I felt as though i'd aged 60 years in a week. Others have had similar experiences. Dmso may potentiate the hormone excessively. Haidut claims this effect is from lowering estrogen excessively, i rather doubt that. Best Regards, James"

Ray: "Thank you. I doubt the low estrogen theory."

I know it's popular on the forum lately to assume low estrogen is the cause of several negative symptoms, but I think something else is going on here. I think the lowered cortisol theory is better than the low estrogen theory IMO.
I think it's the DMSO. If lowered cortisol caused joint issues then progesterone and pregnenolone would also cause joint issues, but they don't.
I also experienced joint pain when I used haiduts supplements in DMSO, such as pansterone in dmso..
 

Andman

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I think it's the DMSO. If lowered cortisol caused joint issues then progesterone and pregnenolone would also cause joint issues, but they don't.
I also experienced joint pain when I used haiduts supplements in DMSO, such as pansterone in dmso..

got the low-e symptoms from the non-dmso versions ‍♂️
 

Steene

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I suppose it could stress the liver, although I doubt it. I would imagine @Steene point was that it would not be useful to you in whatever form the liver output it.

I am done experimenting with Pansterone and Androsterone. It is not useful in any way for me like you said. Pansterone raises progesterone too much and Androsterone makes my estrogen border line low.
 

Vinero

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I am done experimenting with Pansterone and Androsterone. It is not useful in any way for me like you said. Pansterone raises progesterone too much and Androsterone makes my estrogen border line low.
What's wrong with raising progesterone? Everything you write goes against Peat. Healthy people have high progesterone and low estrogen.
 
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Peatogenic

Peatogenic

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What's wrong with raising progesterone? Everything you write goes against Peat. Healthy people have high progesterone and low estrogen.

IF the concern was elevated progesterone (for whatever reason)....couldn't you avoid that by just taking Pregnenolone? Without the DHEA?
 

Steene

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pregnenolone is a precursor to progesterone no?

Yes this would make the problem even worse. I don't fool around with hormones anymore the only save alternative for me which wont cause havoc is Gonadin. In this way I let my body decide what is best.

Strength, healthy libido and depth of voice are the best markers for me personally and everything is reduced by progesterone (it is an anti-androgen at a certain threshold and this threshold is easily reached with pregnenolone).
 
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