Living 200 metres/650 feet BELOW sea level - health consequences?

[Guacamayo]

I have an opportunity to live beside Lake Galilee in Israel for several months - Lake Galilee is around 200 metres/650 BELOW sea level.

Based on people's understanding on this forum (and also Ray Peat's views) would living at this location for months on end cause a worsening of chronic health conditions? Or an improvement?

I know that living at altitude has lots of health benefits, and staying at sea level is detrimental...but would heading below sea level actually be worse?

Or is it that living at sea level is detrimental to health, and anything that gets you away from sea level (irrespective of direction - up or down) would lead to an improvement?

Reason I ask is because historically the Lake Galilee region has always been bustling with life...it's only in the last several hundred years that that has died down. Plus, half the events in the New Testament take place around this region. I find it odd that if living below sea level was so detrimental to health, this place would be a magnet for both spiritual and physical life.

I've read some posts on here that Ray mentioned how living below sea level is detrimental - I wasn't able to find any of these articles or recordings. If anyone could link to them I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Guacamayo]

I found this study: The effect of low altitude on blood count parameters - PubMed

It looks like platelet count and red cell distribution width is higher in those who live below sea level...but hemoglobin levels, MCV and leukocyte counts are significantly higher for those living at high altitudes.

 

[BearWithMe]

bump

 

[BearWithMe]

In my country, there is an area where the nature thrives extremelly well. This area alone, despite being about 2% of the total area of my country, supplies like 80% of fruit for the country, and it is the most delicious fruit.

Also, the forests there are beautiful and full of wild animals.

Interestingly enough, this is also place with the lowest altitude in the whole country (200m above sea level)

 

[Guacamayo]

Interesting...

The issue with me is that I've had low hemoglobin and hematocrit for at least the past 5 years. It tanked for some reason around 6 years back and has just stayed down. None of the specialists I've been to can figure out what's wrong...

The "altitude factor" is my last card to play...

All the studies I've read here and elsewhere say that high altitude is the way to go - but low altitude just throw up a lot of counterintuitive evidence that it's also really healthy.

 

[Davsey85]

I think as long as you get good sunlight,low air pollution,mold,emf should be ok

 

[Davsey85]

I think as long as you get good sunlight,low air pollution,mold,emf and don't have other health issues should be ok.

 

[BearWithMe]

Interesting...

The issue with me is that I've had low hemoglobin and hematocrit for at least the past 5 years. It tanked for some reason around 6 years back and has just stayed down. None of the specialists I've been to can figure out what's wrong...

The "altitude factor" is my last card to play...

All the studies I've read here and elsewhere say that high altitude is the way to go - but low altitude just throw up a lot of counterintuitive evidence that it's also really healthy.

Since I'm also considering movig to low altitude place, I have spent last evening reading as many studies on the topic as possible.

Many studies are saying that the benefits of high altitude are starting at 1000 or even 1500 meters above sea level. Below that, I struggle to find any correlation between altitude and health outcomes. So if you are going to live bellow 1000 meters above sea level, the altitude might not matter at all.

Another question is what exactly makes people healthier above 1500 meters. Is it higher CO2? Less poluted air? More UV exposure maybe?

You can achieve all of these in low altidude, while also reaping the benefits of living close to sea level, like generally warmer climate, possibly being close to the sea, etc.

Have you ever spent some time in high altitude? Maybe vacation in mountains or something? How did you felt?

I think there are better / more effective ways of fixing your hemoglobin and hematocrit than moving into high altitudes.

What are your actual symptoms beside the bloodwork results?

 

[Guacamayo]

The highest altitude I've ever lived at was 800 metres above sea level (3 years ago) and I felt exactly the same. I didn't notice any changes. But as you yourself referenced, it was nowhere near either the 1,000 meter, or even the 1,500 meter minimum.

I've tried all possible ways I know of to raise hemoglobin and hematocrit levels and none have worked - a small sample include beet juice, stearic acid, a whole range of Chinese herbs that help the blood and energy, etc. What are some ways you would recommend?

 

[BearWithMe]

I would like to correct my previous statement.

Have read another bunch of studies and statistical data and it appears that under 1000 meters above sea level, altitude is actually negatively correlated to the health outcomes and lifespan, meaning that it might be better to live close to sea level than at 700 meters, for example.

So living either above 1000m or below 200m would be the best.

Ray Peat lives approx. 100m above sea level.

I haven't found any data on living below sea level, but I'd guess that living below sea level is also much healthier than living at ~700 m, assuming that it is not very poluted area.

I've tried all possible ways I know of to raise hemoglobin and hematocrit levels and none have worked - a small sample include beet juice, stearic acid, a whole range of Chinese herbs that help the blood and energy, etc. What are some ways you would recommend?

Well these are not exactly Peaty treatments and I would not expect any of these to significantly improve your health long term, because they are focused on treating the symptoms rather than fixing the underlying issue.

How is your serum ferritin and transferrin saturation? Do you know your copper status? Ceruloplasmin? Vitamin A? B12? Magnesium? How does your diet looks like? What are your actual symptoms?

I'd try to give my body the best nutrition possible (with particular focus on organ meats and especially liver), eliminate as much environmental toxins as possible, and be super consistent with it long term (at least a year) before judging the effects.

You might add stuff like the beets or stearic acid on top of that, but more like a support treatment to speed up the recovery.

 

[Einklang]

Its noted that living at high altitude, strengthens bones, increases thyroid activity and decreases prolactin. Lower atmospheric pressure helps reduce calcium loss, as the tissues retain more CO2. The opposite would have a reverse effect. Adjusting to the new pressure might cause discomfort(headache, nausea)

 

[Guacamayo]

The latest Danny Roddy & @haidut & Ray Peat interview here:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0jvY2m6h28
had some eye opening insights - estrogen tanks hemoglobin and hematocrit, while androgens raise those levels.

Georgi asked if it was due to androgens counteracting estrogens and their hemoglobin-lowering effect, or if it's the androgenic-effect itself that causes the bone marrow to roar back to life and start pumping the hemoglobin on all cylinders...Ray Peat said it was both...

For as long as I can remember I've always had high estrogen and naturally low testosterone. Even when I was able to get my testosterone high, my estrogen still remained high. My SHBG is also double the normal range.

Looks like this could be a big piece of the puzzle right here...and something I haven't been able to fix for years and years...

I've tried everything from Calcium D Glucarate to DIM to lower chronically high estrogen and nothing has really worked. I specifically cut out estrogen-raising foods but still nothing.

Unless I wasn't taking a high enough dose of Calcium D Glucarate? I was taking 1500mg per day.


Paging @BearWithMe and anyone else who can help.

 

[BearWithMe]

How is your gut health? Have you ever tried RP Carrot Salad?

Any liver issues, or symptoms that might be related to the liver?

How is your digestion?

 

[Guacamayo]

I eat the Ray Peat approved carrot salad everyday. I take it with a tablespoon of olive oil and a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar and salt.

Gut health is abysmal - I need to take laxatives every couple of days and that's with my hypothyroid levelled out with 80mcg of T3. I have IBS (constipation predominant) with fibromyalgia.

I'd say my liver is pretty healthy. I eat a lot of liver-supporting vegetables, plus I eat liver itself several times a week (chicken and turkey primarily but also lamb and beef in smaller amounts).

 

[BearWithMe]

That's a lot of T3. What exact product do you use? Do you still have hypothyroid symptoms on this dose? How are your daily temperatures / pulse? Do you know your rT3?

This alone might be source of ALL your problems.

With such a pronounced hypothyroidism, your motility goes to zero. Then you get SIBO, then leaky gut, then estrogen reabsorbtion starts to happen.

Which further lower your thyroid and you get into this self perpetuating negative feedback loop.

With such a mess in your gut, you might not properly absorb nutrients you need for healthy blood (and thyroid)

Also, be very careful with liver supporting vegetables, many (all?) of them are very estrogenic

 

[Guacamayo]

It can't be that. The bad gut symptoms were there for years before I started taking T3...they were even there when I was hyperthyroid back over 10 years ago.

FYI I got autoimmune thyroid disease around 2008 and went from hyperthyroid to hypothyroid in 2014.

I started taking T3 because I couldn't convert T4 into T3.

My rT3 levels are fine.

My dysbiosis, constipation and IBS have been around since around 2008. I noticed that I had a white tongue around 2009 or 2010 and it hasn't gone away. The only way it goes away is by taking licorice or over 1 tablespoon of echinacea extract...a couple of times per day.

I've been trying to fix my gut for ages from around 1,000 different angles and nothing has helped. There was a period of time where things got better on a high T3 dose...but that's not sustainable long term.

 

[BearWithMe]

No I said your thyroid issues might be source of all your other problems

Of course you can't fix your SIBO when your motility is zero

 

[Guacamayo]

Motility isn't zero...it's just massive dysbiosis for over a decade that has caused constant gas, bad digestion, incomplete evacuation, constipation, alternating diarrhea (at the beginning), and fibromyalgia that's connected to the dysbiosis. The reason I know that is because whenever my bowel movements are fine there's no pain anywhere...but even if things are like 10% off, then they might as well be 95% off, because the pain's around the same. Which is why I need laxatives every few days.

But here's the question: Can estrogen be lowered as long as my gut isn't at 100%?

I think yes. I think it can.