Liver Health

[walker_in_aus]

I keep coming across the recommendations to improve liver health before trying other things - in regards to problems using aspirin, thyroid supps and glycogen storage.

But I am struggling to find any solid recommendations on how to do this. Can any recommend some liver health troubleshooting advice? I am clearly estrogen/cortisol dominant still. I have been totally overeating in an attempt to improve metabolism. I've been trying T3 only but definitely getting more crashes.

 

[raypeatclips]

This is something I have been very interested in recently myself. I think carrot salad is a very overlooked method of improving the liver, I've seen Peat say that endotoxin overloads the liver and makes it less effective. I am always going to eat the daily carrot salad when I work on my liver.

Protein deficiency may be something to look into as well.

With regards to supplements, I remember a @haidut post from ages ago that talked about the supplements that were beneficial for the liver and ranked them, I have been searching for the post for the past few days but can't seem to find it. I believe the supplements were in an almost pyramid shape and k2/caffeine being at the top? Perhaps he could add anything I miss in this post.

Caffeine seems to be the "go to" supplement for liver health on this forum. Alongside a lot of sugar people start low, 50mg or so and build up slowly to huge doses, and find their liver improves throughout. I wasn't able to make caffeine work for me so gave up on it until I am in better health.

K2 is the next "go to" for liver health, people report taking 1-15mg and sometimes even more, to improve their liver health. 5mg seems a good place to aim for. You can find many posts about this on the forum.

Taurine 250mg-1.5g with food can be good. I enjoy the benefits of taurine, it also doubles liver glycogen, as well as other benefits with vitamin balance.

Glycine is another thing I have not tried but seems to be beneficial for liver, around 500mg-5g are doses I have seen used.

Thiamine is another thing that seems to be increasing in popularity for the liver, not sure on dosages for this.

Magnesium I have seen mentioned related to liver health but no specific protocols or experiences.

Niacinamide, Vit E, methylene blue are all things I have read about relating to fatty liver disease in posts on the first which is also something to look into.

I would probably research them all, pick one or two and use them alongside a healthy diet (with carrot salad) and see if things improve, if not, move onto something else. Rinse and repeat until you find something that suits you.

 

[sweetpeat]

"The most helpful would be the following, ranked in order of importance:
Caffeine, K2, Aspirin, glycine, MB, Taurine, Vitamin E, Theanine, Thiamine, BCAA, Pyridoxine, and Biotin

Obviously, these can be used in tandem. Vitamin B1 is probably a good adjunct to caffeine as it helps control the lactate response some people get from it."

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

 

[walker_in_aus]

Protein deficiency may be something to look into as well.

Thanks! Good summary of the tidbits floating around. I'm finding protein hard because anything more than half a glass of milk a day is no good gut wise. Sure does warm me up thou

gh. I think I'll go back to beef and lamb mince meatballs which I then add collagen/gelatin too. Hard to find low fat protein aside from fishies and shrimps where I live inland Australia ($$).

I have been high dosing K2 (Kuinone) and there is a visible and significant improvement in how my teeth look and feel, despite excessive sugar and acidic food consumption. I've never drunk coffee before though - might need to start.

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

THANKS FOR THE LINK! Was looking for something like this for AGES.

 

[Diokine]

Everything raypeatclips wrote is pretty spot on, I would also second the importance of proper protein assimilation (I really like reduced fat string cheese.) Coffee is excellent but it can tend you towards hypoglycemia and stress if you don't have some level of health already. I find if it makes me urinate more than normal with "coffee" smelling urine that I maybe should back off a little.

Also the influence of serotonin is huge, 5-HT receptors are all throughout the liver tissue and greatly influence its efficiency. I found myself looking up pictures of smiling people, especially in the morning. Concentrate on the feelings that creates, that's the feeling of a system that will have a happy liver. It's absolutely critical that you reduce gut irritation, it will be next to impossible to really have things working at their optimal with it. Carrot salad works well, I've actually been eating much less in general with a lot more fat free milk, fruit juice and OJ and improvement has been steady.

I also had really good success with red LED and lots of sunlight. I have a 630nm LED array that has about 25 1W red LEDs on it, nothing too crazy. I would shine this on different areas of my stomach and right over my liver, and you could feel that it was effective. 3-5 minutes a few times a day worked well. I was able to do it at my desk at work while using the computer.

Using approaches like these I saw a drop my liver enzymes to within the normal range, which I had never seen before. The first test showed AST and ALT above range (ALT I think was 8x upper end of reference) and high bilirubin. I've always had high numbers there and I was told it was from "Gilbert's syndrome." I think it's more likely that genetic factors and environmental exposure to things like mercury cause the symptoms. The second test I had a month or so later had all the enzyme values within range, and my bilirubin was only slightly elevated, like 10% higher than reference.

 

[raypeatclips]

"The most helpful would be the following, ranked in order of importance:
Caffeine, K2, Aspirin, glycine, MB, Taurine, Vitamin E, Theanine, Thiamine, BCAA, Pyridoxine, and Biotin

Obviously, these can be used in tandem. Vitamin B1 is probably a good adjunct to caffeine as it helps control the lactate response some people get from it."

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

How did you find that post where haidut ranks the supps? Google search or this forum search? Or saved?

 

[PakPik]

Great post, @Diokine

Regarding Gilbert's Syndrome, may I ask, did you have yellowed tinted skin/jaundice as a symptom? I realize that I had most of the time an unhealthy looking yellow tint to my skin and I always had poor health since I was a child irrespective of carotene consumption, but my skin now displays a color closer to its true one -not yellow- as I recover. I also always was very sensitive to chemical odors, they made me sick, so I am thinking there were serious problems with my detox system from an early age. Nowadays I am much less sensitive. Did you have problems with chemicals as well? Coffee tolerance was always horrible, so I never was a coffee drinker but it's wonderful nowadays, it's amazing. All that leads me to suspect there is/was something chronic about my liver. Enzymes have been o.k (but some studies show having normal enzymes doesn't rule out liver disease) but I never have tested bilirrubin.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

[sweetpeat]

How did you find that post where haidut ranks the supps? Google search or this forum search? Or saved?

It was a post I saved. At the time he wrote it, I was dealing with high-ish liver enzymes and so it applied to my situation. I brought my enzymes down into normal range using mostly high K2, although I also used smaller doses of some of the other things.

Here is a link to my story if you're interested: Liver lab results after K2: good news/bad news

 

[DrJ]

No one has mentioned taking fructose, but it is an easy substrate for forming glycogen, so taking some fructose powder several times a day will help restore/ keep up your glycogen.

 

[walker_in_aus]

No one has mentioned taking fructose, but it is an easy substrate for forming glycogen, so taking some fructose powder several times a day will help restore/ keep up your glycogen.

I drink two glasses of OJ a day and eatr a few pieces of fruit, and often eat icecream so I would hope that would be enough. I regularly eat lollies (candy) which I'm trying to stop and replace with more fruit/stewed fruit.

 

[SQu]

"coffee" smelling urine that I maybe should back off a little.

I find the same. Definitely a sign that I'm not up to that much coffee at the time. Can happen with 1 cup or 3. The amount varies depending on how I am doing at the time. Stress, estrogen, things like that.

Nice info diokine!

 

[DaveFoster]

My liver enzymes went from elevated to normal after adding in aspirin (600 mg - 1 gram/day) before bed.

 

[paper_clips43]

Asparagus water simmered for 45 minutes, or even canned asparagus can do it.

 

[jaa]

I keep coming across the recommendations to improve liver health before trying other things - in regards to problems using aspirin, thyroid supps and glycogen storage.

But I am struggling to find any solid recommendations on how to do this. Can any recommend some liver health troubleshooting advice? I am clearly estrogen/cortisol dominant still. I have been totally overeating in an attempt to improve metabolism. I've been trying T3 only but definitely getting more crashes.

Others have pointed out useful supplement and lifestyle strategies. One roadblock may be your overeating. I'd work on addressing potential fatty liver. Too many calories, particularly from fructose + fat, may overburden the liver. If you are at a healthy weight, I'd recommend eating at around you daily energy requirements. If you're overweight, I'd recommend eating at a bit of a caloric deficit.

 

[Jsaute21]

Any good brand you would recommend for Taurine? I use Jarrow which works well, but has cellulose and magnesium stearate. I am assuming bulk supplements?

Jarrow Formulas, Taurine, 1000 mg, 100 Capsules

 

[Diokine]

@PakPik

I think had some degree of skin yellowing, nothing people would notice outright but it was there. As a child, I used to bruise very easily and would also fall asleep all the time. I got headaches often and was also sensitive to a lot of chemicals. During high school I drank coffee to excess and developed what felt like a mild allergy to it.

I think testing bilirubin is definitely important when looking at liver health, it will show the efficiency of various pathways like glucoronidation.

@DaveFoster

I've had great success with aspirin also, I use it regularly but I make sure to cycle it - It gave me some weird feelings in the liver after taking for close to a week straight. I had found some information showing how prostaglandins are required for proper liver maintenance.

 

[Evgenius]

It's pretty mainstream but milk thistle is another thing that is proven to support liver health.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Others have pointed out useful supplement and lifestyle strategies. One roadblock may be your overeating. I'd work on addressing potential fatty liver. Too many calories, particularly from fructose + fat, may overburden the liver. If you are at a healthy weight, I'd recommend eating at around you daily energy requirements. If you're overweight, I'd recommend eating at a bit of a caloric deficit.

I'm not overweight (yet) but spent about two years trying to lose extra kilos with high fat ketosis... as many people on here tried and crashed. I would lose 5 kilos, then binge etc cycle that for two years, hating myself for craving sugar. So when I started on this learning curve I just wanted to let myself go and eat whatever I craved.... definitely have gained weight but looking to reign it in a bit now. Not sure what my daily energy requirements are but I'm going to start on the higher end and find where I stop gaining before I try lowering it. I am just so happy now and I don't want to lose that... buying new pants seems like a small price to pay!

It's pretty mainstream but milk thistle is another thing that is proven to support liver health.

I have heard this alot. I'm going to try the aspirin/caffeine/k2 combo for a few weeks first, as I have all those things. I tried it this morning and jeez the fog lifted quickly and I'm feeling energetic, but I'm not having anxiety :)

 

[PakPik]

I think had some degree of skin yellowing, nothing people would notice outright but it was there. As a child, I used to bruise very easily and would also fall asleep all the time. I got headaches often and was also sensitive to a lot of chemicals. During high school I drank coffee to excess and developed what felt like a mild allergy to it.

I think testing bilirubin is definitely important when looking at liver health, it will show the efficiency of various pathways like glucoronidation.

Thanks so much, Diokine. I had chronic bad headaches starting in my childhood, and was sleepy-but-wired unable to rest all the time. What you say makes sense.

 

[stressucks]

I sometimes wonder if I haven't done long-term damage to my liver with all the binge drinking I used to do. I've had elevated enzymes before, but were normal the last couple times.