Liver Flush - Experiences?

[Xisca]

So while the green stones are not the waste according to the Lancet article, any gravel or other items in the stool may be!
I'm not sure how swallowing a lot of oil in one 'meal' differs from eating a little coconut oil or macadamia every day for a week...

Yes, that's michael 4 points, and so, globs with no waste/sand cannot mean that the liver flush is a scam!
It creates the best conditions for us to eliminate more wastes, but it might not, or not always.

Coconut oil is said to not stimulate bile, so no daily elimination of bile, unless you have some other type of oil? Fat is not only about nutrition and metabolism, if it is needed to stimulate bile and eliminate toxins! Do we have different needs? How do people detox in islands where they eat coconuts and fish? Is there enough fat in the fish?

@michael94 can you explain better your points 5 and 6?
Is it ok for any liver issue?
And "more involved than..."

 

[Xisca]

5. Liver flush should not be done unless it really resonates with how you are feeling at the time
6. "Softening" of stones is very misunderstood and more involved than drinking apple juice or taking malic acid capsules

Will you tell us more about those 2 points? Thanks!

 

[RobertJM]

The fact that bile is another method that the body uses to eliminate toxins is a major reason (for me) why I have an inherent distrust of low fat diets. Just totally restricting a whole macronutrient because you believe it to improve certain 'parameters' is never going to make sense to me. And yes I know PUFA is different and we all restrict is as much as we can (before someone schools me).

Ray Peat has said that the bile is estrogenic/serotonergic. That's probably pretty obvious to even the new people around here.

And so eating a lower fat diet is helpful? (As recommended by some on here).

Just let the toxins sit there? The body will eliminate them another way? Oh, but I eat clean. Look at my lovely organic potatoes, beans and broccoli. Well, you still take in toxins each day. Even if you are eating low fat, your bile will contain toxic filth just the same as what would be in the bile of a person eating higher fat.

For me, the difference being, the person eating more fat, will have more bile being created/pushing through, and being eliminated (along with the toxins). Constant bile flow = elimination activity? Low fat diet = shut down of sytem?

Maybe I'm way off base. Any thoughts anyone?

 

[dbh25]

What is an optimum fat % and what do you consider low fat?

 

[Frankdee20]

Yes that's the point. You build up pressure with a lot of bile, then expel it making the stones/toxins stored in the liver to move out of their places.

I don't think the typical "stones" one sees when doing a liver flush are actually on the liver. That's impossible. However I do really think there are some stones in the liver, smaller ones. I know for sure because a couple of times while doing coffee enemas with a special kind of coffe, much stronger content of caffeine, etc. I expeled some sand. Where was that if not in the liver ? I've done other kind of colon cleanses etc. and I never found any sand or gravel. This clearly came from the liver or gallbladder.

That's wild

 

[alywest]

Once I got sand from a Moritz liver cleanse. I tried it a few other times with no stones or anything. Tudca never did anything for me.

My son sometimes has what I considered "gritty" diapers, and when I looked it up online other parents said it was from eating blueberries. He had just eaten blueberries the day before! Coincidence? Not sure, and I have no idea why blueberries would cause such a thing. It is straight up like sand!

 

[Such_Saturation]

The question is whether there is conditions alkaline in the intestines enough to make soap with olive oil.

 

[ddjd]

cacao butter and drinking the oil with the citrus, but cacao butter is too expensive.

Why does cacao butter stimulate the bile but not coconut oil?

 

[RobertJM]

Why does cacao butter stimulate the bile but not coconut oil?

Not sure. Do all fat components of the coconut oil fat get processed differently? I thought that the majority of it (at least) bypasses the liver to be processed by the bile.

Cacao butter is just like any other fat that we eat (with the exception of coconut oil), with how it goes to the liver & needs bile to be processed. The more you eat, the more bile is needed to deal with it.

I might be wrong though

 

[RobertJM]

Double post

 

[ddjd]

Okay so I'm on flush number five (been doing them since May 17).

First four flushes I have expelled about 800 green blobs. And on the fourth flush I also expelled about 10 pale grey blobs, which I found fascinating.

I have even started collecting these blobs (I know. I have joined the cult). I will posting pics before you know it.

My recent coffee enema though, was just beyond dramatic. I have tried googling for information about people expelling stones from coffee enemas, and there doesn't seem to be much anecdotes. Even Mortitz himself said that you won't really get much stones out through coffee enemas.

Well, what I expelled from last coffee enema was just insane. It was basically these same green blobs, but they were shattered to pieces. There was literally thousands of particles being expelled (not to get too graphic). And it felt so damn good as they left me.

I won't be doing another liver flush for a while because I want to wait until I can get some macadamia oil instead (the 10-14g of PUFA that 120mls of olive oil provides isn't something I want to be putting into my body each time I do a flush). And I can't get any macadamia oil until I get paid. But macadamia oil is the Peatiest oil I could find.

I will continue with the coffee enemas though.

I'm going to keep doing this until I don't expel anything.

I want to see if it improves some health parameters of mine that are concerning me.

Any updates?

 

[RobertJM]

Any updates?

I've stopped with the liver flushes. I did about ten over the course of a year. I didn't notice any long term benefits at all apart from a euphoric mood the day following the liver flush. But this is to be expected, as the day of doing a liver flush you have to fast (which I absolutely detested), and then you drink that disgusting drink at 10pm (crap loads of olive oil mixed with grapefruit juice). You then wake the next day feeling absolutely awful because of what is lingering in your colon (lots of bile, and all that is contained within it, including the puported 'stones'). Once you evacuate all of that (after many many trips to the toilet over the course of that day), that's when the euphoria starts (no wonder though, because you are expelling all of the toxic bile, and so is a relief to the body).

Also though, and possibly another reason for the profound mood lift that I experienced, it might be because you are finally allowed to eat again after the fast (I don't count that disgusting drink as a well earned meal lol). And eating after a fast is just orgasmic. I am very happy in this state and it probably does add to the elevated mood.

However, I still enjoy my coffee enemas. They are a great tool to aid the liver. I see all kinds of disgusting crap come out from those alone!

 

[RobertJM]

Double post

 

[ddjd]

I've stopped with the liver flushes. I did about ten over the course of a year. I didn't notice any long term benefits at all apart from a euphoric mood the day following the liver flush. But this is to be expected, as the day of doing a liver flush you have to fast (which I absolutely detested), and then you drink that disgusting drink at 10pm (crap loads of olive oil mixed with grapefruit juice). You then wake the next day feeling absolutely awful because of what is lingering in your colon (lots of bile, and all that is contained within it, including the puported 'stones'). Once you evacuate all of that (after many many trips to the toilet over the course of that day), that's when the euphoria starts (no wonder though, because you are expelling all of the toxic bile, and so is a relief to the body).

Also though, and possibly another reason for the profound mood lift that I experienced, it might be because you are finally allowed to eat again after the fast (I don't count that disgusting drink as a well earned meal lol). And eating after a fast is just orgasmic. I am very happy in this state and it probably does add to the elevated mood.

However, I still enjoy my coffee enemas. They are a great tool to aid the liver. I see all kinds of disgusting crap come out from those alone!

Why did it take you ten flushes to get to that conclusion

 

[Peatfan19]

Chapter 7 of the attached book by Andreas Moritz contains detailed instructions on how to do the liver flush.

The lengthy book (published in 1997) contains a wealth of interesting and some useful information, and was one of the first sources which made me aware of the health benefits of coconut oil and salt. The book does however contain a number of ideas and concepts which are outdated and anti-Peat, e.g. warnings against aspirine etc.

 

[AyurvedaMGerson]

@Prosper,

The protocol you posted is dangerous. You should use epsom salts as Andreas Moritz protocol. @gbolduev confirmed it is the Andreas Moritz protocol he used, no the one you posted.

Few things :
1st - You have to not eat fats a few days before the flush, so you have enough built up pressure in the gallbladder
2nd - I don't think you can do it every 2 weeks. It is just too much. Normally is one every 3-4 weeks.
3rd - You have to take malic acid or drink apple juice before the flush.
4th - You have to cleanse your entire colon after the flush.

I advise anyone wanting to to this to follow Andreas protocol to the smallest detail.

Exactly. Need to be no/low fat diet for one week. And without coffee and another CHOLAGOGUE substances.

I havent Gallbladder so UDCA can be useful before flush, and I need to do 2 weeks with malic acid and nofat diet

 

[AyurvedaMGerson]

@Jennifer recently posted this extract from The Lancet April 16 2005 in another thread.

It suggests that the liver detox itself creates the green stones it is supposed to "release". The stones are effectively soap!

"From the medical literature: A 40-year-old woman was referred to the outpatient clinic with a 3-month history of recurrent severe right hypochondrial pain after fatty food. [Note: Here “hypochondrial” means “below the ribcage,’ not “hypochondriac.”] Abdominal ultrasound showed multiple 1-2 mm gallstones in the gallbladder. She had recently followed a “liver cleansing” regime on the advice of a herbalist. This regime consisted of free intake of apple and vegetable juice until 1800 h, but no food, followed by the consumption of 600 mL of olive oil and 300 mL of lemon juice over several hours. This activity resulted in the painless passage of multiple semisolid green “stones” per rectum in the early hours of the next morning. She collected them, stored them in the freezer, and presented them in the clinic. Microscopic examination of our patient’s stones revealed that they lacked any crystalline structure, melted to an oily green liquid after 10 min at 40°C, and contained no cholesterol, bilirubin, or calcium by established wet chemical methods. Traditional faecal fat extraction techniques indicated that the stones contained fatty acids that required acid hydrolysis to give free fatty acids before extraction into ether. These fatty acids accounted for 75% of the original material. Experimentation revealed that mixing equal volumes of oleic acid (the major component of olive oil) and lemon juice produced several semi solid white balls after the addition of a small volume of a potassium hydroxide solution. On air drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard. We conclude, therefore, that these green “stones” resulted from the action of gastric lipases on the simple and mixed triacylglycerols that make up olive oil, yielding long chain carboxylic acids (mainly oleic acid). This process was followed by saponification into large insoluble micelles of potassium carboxylates (lemon juice contains a high concentration of potassium) or “soap stones”."

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)66373-8/fulltext

Is this the soap making equivalent of civet coffee?

I think its soap. But liposoluble toxins in the bile and bowel are mixed in this soap. Its like a soap cleaning inside the lumen.

 

[hearsay]

Has anyone heard of or done an egg yolk cleanse?

 

[dukesbobby777]

Has anyone heard of or done an egg yolk cleanse?

I thought I read somewhere that Moritz recommended olive oil in particular because it has direct effects itself on the bile/gallbladder, although I would have thought any fats used in its place (perhaps with exception of coconut oil) should work as well.

 

[TheBeard]

Has anyone heard of or done an egg yolk cleanse?

I've tried it, it doesn't work.

Of everything I tried, only the olive oil flushes the liver.

Yes, that means you'll have to ingest PUFA once in a while.