Liver Disease

jaketthomas

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Anyone know of any Ray Peat specific instructions or recommendations for Liver Disease?

I have had elevated liver enzymes for 15 years. I've tried various protocols, herbs, diets, etc, and while some have helped, I still haven't been able to cure it.

I feel like I'm on the right track with this diet, but I still do have liver problems. Does anyone know of any helpful Peat suggestions for helping the liver heal? Milk Thistle? Vitamin E? B Vitamins? Zinc? Anything?
 

charlie

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Coffee, thyroid, niacinamide, aspirin.....

Ray Peat regarding diseased liver:

Ray Peat said:
Eliminating all PUFA would be the most important thing, and having lots of orange juice, other sugars including honey, and milk and gelatin. Cytomel, aspirin, acetazolamide, and progesterone all protect the liver and help to slow cancer growth. Some people use extremely large amounts of aspirin, which require supplements of vitamin K, to prevent bleeding. Fibrous foods such as bamboo shoots and laxatives such as cascara help to reduce the absorption of bowel toxins that promote cancer and burden the liver.
 

nwo2012

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jaketthomas said:
Anyone know of any Ray Peat specific instructions or recommendations for Liver Disease?

I have had elevated liver enzymes for 15 years. I've tried various protocols, herbs, diets, etc, and while some have helped, I still haven't been able to cure it.

I feel like I'm on the right track with this diet, but I still do have liver problems. Does anyone know of any helpful Peat suggestions for helping the liver heal? Milk Thistle? Vitamin E? B Vitamins? Zinc? Anything?

Have you tried coffee enemas? Hands down the best way, in addition to Peating, of healing the liver quickly. Of course T3 will speed up the process too.
 

jyb

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nwo2012 said:
jaketthomas said:
Anyone know of any Ray Peat specific instructions or recommendations for Liver Disease?

I have had elevated liver enzymes for 15 years. I've tried various protocols, herbs, diets, etc, and while some have helped, I still haven't been able to cure it.

I feel like I'm on the right track with this diet, but I still do have liver problems. Does anyone know of any helpful Peat suggestions for helping the liver heal? Milk Thistle? Vitamin E? B Vitamins? Zinc? Anything?

Have you tried coffee enemas? Hands down the best way, in addition to Peating, of healing the liver quickly. Of course T3 will speed up the process too.

How does a coffee enema work? I would have thought the coffee remains in the colon and cannot reach toxins above.
 

key

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How long have you been doing ray peat style? What did you do before that?
 

Jenn

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Aspirin and coffee are excellent for the liver and have thyroid like behavior when taken together. Enough potassium is essential too.

When the body is deficient, it starts to compensate. The vital systems get first dibs. The colon is the last stop on the list and so is most likely to be deprived of nutrition. Constipation of any kind should be a huge red flag and is treated as more of an inconvenience. The part of the purpose of the coffee enema is to provide nutrients directly to the colon. Coffee has Mg, Niacinimide, etc.
 

jaketthomas

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I'm a big fan of Ray Peat's work, but recommending people consume aspirin is just flat out careless. Aspirin is a man-made DRUG! Why not take White Willow Bark? It's a natural source of salicin that doesn't run the risk of ulcers, because the salicin is converted to the acid form post-digestion.

It's amazing to me that Ray Peat, as educated as he is, would recommend a man-made drug in his wellness protocols. I would think he would have more common sense than that.
 

key

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Ray is into a lot of drugs including the #1 drug consumed in the world: coffee.
 
J

j.

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jaketthomas said:
It's amazing to me that Ray Peat, as educated as he is, would recommend a man-made drug in his wellness protocols. I would think he would have more common sense than that.

He says you don't need it if you take fruits high in salicylic acid, or haven't consumed PUFA for years.
 

Jenn

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Aspirin is just acetylsalicylic acid. What is vinegar? What is in ripe fruit? If you don't want to take aspirin, take ACV and juice or white willow bark. The problem is we don't get enough RIPE fruit. Picking fruit too soon deprives the fruit of establishing its full nutrient value. They can make it turn color in the truck ride over but they can't make it have more nutrition.

The ulcers attributed to aspirin can also be caused by ANY concentrated substance, salt even, sitting on one small place . It's important to NOT use coated aspirin, that doesn't dissolve well and just sits, but to use the uncoated stuff and alway stake with food or chew it. It doesn't taste good, but it doesn't taste bitter...kind of tartish.

It is a mistake to think that just because something is man made that it is worse than the original or that just because something is "natural" that it is better. Refining something can help to remove the not so good parts of a plant and leave to good parts. Tea is a form of refining, drawing out the minerals and nutrients and leaving the cellulose and PUFA's for example. I am certainly not saying that ALL refining is good, just saying that refining isn't the evil it's made out to be at times.
 

key

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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature

You argued that because something is 'natural' it is therefore valid, justified, inevitable, good or ideal.

Many 'natural' things are also considered 'good', and this can bias our thinking; but naturalness itself doesn't make something good or bad. For instance murder could be seen as very natural, but that doesn't mean it's good or justifiable.

Example: The medicine man rolled into town on his bandwagon offering various natural remedies, such as very special plain water. He said that it was only natural that people should be wary of 'artificial' medicines such as antibiotics.
 

charlie

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I came from the same kind of thinking about "natural" stuff that Jake did, so I understand his position at this point. It took me a while to be able to see through the eyes of Peat and come to the conclusion that being stuck in "natural dogma" is just another trap. Akin to being stuck in the "grok dogma".
 
R

ratcheer

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Jenn said:
It is a mistake to think that just because something is man made that it is worse than the original or that just because something is "natural" that it is better. Refining something can help to remove the not so good parts of a plant and leave to good parts. Tea is a form of refining, drawing out the minerals and nutrients and leaving the cellulose and PUFA's for example. I am certainly not saying that ALL refining is good, just saying that refining isn't the evil it's made out to be at times.

I think this is exactly right, and one of the sources of confusion is that the word itself - refining - isn't understood or used correctly, and gets confused with other concepts. The word really means 'to make pure':

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/refine
refine [rɪˈfaɪn]
vb
1. to make or become free from impurities, sediment, or other foreign matter; purify
2. (Chemistry) (tr) to separate (a mixture) into pure constituents, as in an oil refinery
3. to make or become free from coarse characteristics; make or become elegant or polished
4. (tr; often foll by out) to remove (something impure or extraneous)

So sugar and HFCS are both "processed" but only sugar is "refined".

ANYWAY - re the liver. I've often heard Peat mention that one should get "plenty of good quality protein". Excellent sources would be bone broths (tendon, ox tail etc - or 'refined' gelatin) or shellfish etc. And, in addition to the other good advice by others, limit beta-carotene-rich foods (which make the liver work harder to convert to A, and 'wastes' T3). Bowel clearance is key - otherwise the liver has to process toxins over and over to get rid of them (this especially applies to estrogen). For someone in a critical situation like liver disease I imagine enemas are a great idea (be sure it's an isotonic solution - google for recipes) and I've heard coffee is good too - I bet the caffeine stimulates peristalsis and ultimately good clearance. Perhaps some nutrients (magnesium?) are absorbed too.
 

Jenn

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Charlie said:
I came from the same kind of thinking about "natural" stuff that Jake did, so I understand his position at this point. It took me a while to be able to see through the eyes of Peat and come to the conclusion that being stuck in "natural dogma" is just another trap. Akin to being stuck in the "grok dogma".
Me too. Alternative medicine was too "main stream" and not natural enough. :roll: Sugar was EVIL and people who ate it were scum. I then added vegan on top of that and gained 70lbs. :shock:

So, once I got over myself and accepted that MY WAY and MY RULES weren't working at all, then I could start listening to my body and what it was trying to tell me. ;) The better I listen, the better I feel. :D
 

key

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Jenn said:
Charlie said:
I came from the same kind of thinking about "natural" stuff that Jake did, so I understand his position at this point. It took me a while to be able to see through the eyes of Peat and come to the conclusion that being stuck in "natural dogma" is just another trap. Akin to being stuck in the "grok dogma".
Me too. Alternative medicine was too "main stream" and not natural enough. :roll: Sugar was EVIL and people who ate it were scum. I then added vegan on top of that and gained 70lbs. :shock:

So, once I got over myself and accepted that MY WAY and MY RULES weren't working at all, then I could start listening to my body and what it was trying to tell me. ;) The better I listen, the better I feel. :D

Me 3. Doug Graham species specific diet :lol:
 

key

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@Jake
"Even feeding enough sucrose to cause fat deposition in the liver can protect the liver from oxidative stress (Spolarics and Meyenhofer, 2000), possibly by mechanisms such as those involved in the treatment of alcoholic liver disease with saturated fats."-RP

Study:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11018471
 

narouz

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Mouthwatering bacon with walnuts,
drizzled with soy oil mayonaisse,
nestled in an scrumptious avocado mush,
rolled in a flavorful wheat wrap.
Oh so natural.
 

Jenn

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narouz said:
Mouthwatering bacon with walnuts,
drizzled with soy oil mayonaisse,
nestled in an scrumptious avocado mush,
rolled in a flavorful wheat wrap.
Oh so natural.

:lol: My favorite meal used to be an avocado sandwich on whole wheat bread slathered in mayo. Don't forget the sprouts! ;)
 
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