Lithium

jyb

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RP's article on "Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities" relating to brain energy offers a few additional ideas, one of which is lithium supplementation. It doesn't discuss it in detail and the lithium studies cited are getting old. That article is relevant to me as I suffer from insomnia and lethargy.

On prescription, you can get high doses of lithium carbonate. This is not necessary however, as it seems others forms like lithium orotate are more water soluble, so a lower amount of that form is as good. Lithium orotate for example is cheaply available over the counter.

I got my hands on Doctors Best Lithium Orotate. As expected, it is loaded with controversial ingredients including silicon dioxide. I dissolve the pills in water, and since lithium orotate is said to have good water solubility, I expect Li+ ions to get distributed in the water easily, while the white sediments are the useless ingredients that can be filtered out (using a cloth).

No guarantee its a good source of lithium, I'm not a chemist. Any ideas on better sources of lithium?
 

cliff

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Salt has the benefits of lithium without the possible negative side effects...
 

jyb

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cliff said:
Salt has the benefits of lithium without the possible negative side effects...

He mentions its close to sodium chemically, but why does he write about lithium specifically?

Chronic consumption of lithium blocks the release of adrenalin from the adrenal glands, and it also has extensive antiserotonin effects, inhibiting its release from some sites, and blocking its actions at others.
Lithium forms a complex with the ammonia molecule, and since the ammonia molecule mimics the effects of serotonin, especially in fatigue, this could be involved in lithium’s antiserotonergic effects. Ammonia, like serotonin, impairs mitochondrial energy production (at a minimum, it uses energy in being converted to urea), so anti-ammonia, anti-serotonin agents make more energy available for adaptation. Lithium has been demonstrated to restore the energy metabolism of mitochondria (Gulidova, 1977).
 

cliff

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because it's so close to sodium, maybe you should post the whole quote in context? ;p

"In the peiodic table of the elements, lithium is immediately above sodium, meaning that it has the chemical properties of sodium, but with a smaller atomic radius, which makes its electrical charge more intense. Its physiological effects are so close to sodium’s that we can get clues to sodium’s actions by watching what lithium does."
 

jyb

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You're probably right.

Looking through studies randomly to see if I could find evidence of any benefits of lithium in addition to sodium, I see they often discuss an effect of lithium on "sodium transport". RP's article says chronic lithium consumption is good.

"Chronic lithium treatment inhibits amiloride-sensitive sodium transport in the rat distal nephron." in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10087036
 

charlie

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So we can assume chronic salt consumption will also be good for mental health?

Just maybe not so good for kidneys?
 
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j.

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Charlie said:
Just maybe not so good for kidneys?

From reading Peat, it seems like it's not a problem to consume salt according to appetite. Probably like many things, in the context of being relatively PUFA-free, salt isn't bad for the kidneys or anything else.
 

Wilfrid

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Li-Zyme from Biotics Research seems pretty safe....it's not a chelated one.
The ingredients seems also fine.
 

mdimarco

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you can get lithium carbonate online. It is not a controlled substance. Mine is pharmecutical grade and comes from india lol. Just google it.
 

High_Prob

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Nice interview about Lithium and low dose applications. A bit off topic but at the end the interviewer discusses a couple studies where Progesterone was used for Traumatic Brain Injury (I believe these studies were already covered in other threads here)...


 
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Dave Clark

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Not sure where I heard or read it, but I thought Peat was not a fan of lithium because of supposed anti-thyroid effects. Can anyone confirm or correct that assertion? I know I have read that high dose lithium has anti-thyroid effects, and knowing Peat, that would be enough for him to give it a thumbs down.
If you don't want orotate, try this, it is lithium sulfate monohydrate: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Enhance...C5QA89&qid=1564924334&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3
 

magnesiumania

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Not sure where I heard or read it, but I thought Peat was not a fan of lithium because of supposed anti-thyroid effects. Can anyone confirm or correct that assertion? I know I have read that high dose lithium has anti-thyroid effects, and knowing Peat, that would be enough for him to give it a thumbs down.
If you don't want orotate, try this, it is lithium sulfate monohydrate: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Enhance...C5QA89&qid=1564924334&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3

Ive read that elsewhere, before i discovered this forum (that it can inhibit the proper function of thyroid)....However it makes a lot of sense to take a small dose now and then for the neurogenesis/BDNF. Im not saying MORE neurogenesis is generally better but it seem to enhance the overall function of the brain (just an assessment of all my reading).

Jack Kruse also has some interesting and as always highly unique thoughts on lithium for those interested more in the physics of biology rather than the chemistry.
 

biggirlkisss

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it meant lower nitric oxide by lowering ammonia. It has something to do with anmmonia complexing maybe
 

James b

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is peat pro lithium orotate or against it? I swear i've seen some places where he condones it and places where he doesnt. Confusing! Help :)
 

Dave Clark

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is peat pro lithium orotate or against it? I swear i've seen some places where he condones it and places where he doesnt. Confusing! Help :)
My understanding is he likes lithium, but not orotate or orotic acid. I have not found any other chelates for lithium other than the orotates for sale in physiological doses. Other than this: Lithium Plus | Cardiovascular | Cognitive Enhancement | High-Benefit Reduced Cost Line | Gastrointestinal | Mood/Sleep Enhancement | Life Enhancement Products
 

James b

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Great product. Gelatin capsule with no excipients as well, what a great find! I wonder if anyone here has tried this form of lithium? Seems like ray would much prefer this over the orotate version? Cheers Dave!
 
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