Lithium And Thyroid

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Jan 2, 2014
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Can low dose lithium (5mg) affect thyroid conversion.
I understand it can but at what dose does this start to happen.
I have a hair and urine essential mineral test showing low for lithium. Doc recommended i supp with lithium orotate for one year to replenish.
 

extremecheddar

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Maybe my lithium "deficiency" is a good thing and i shouldn't bother with supplementing?
 

extremecheddar

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Lithium toxicity can suppress thyroid and therefor increase serotonin synthesis? maybe low dose is key...
 

Ben

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embs2001 said:
LIthium also interacts with serotonin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6269180
It mentioned serotonin increases in the hippocampus, maybe that's why lithium causes memory loss. I was interested in lithium for a while. It reduces suicide risk when put into drinking water of cities. It can interfere with thyroid hormone synthesis from iodine, but I already supplement thyroid, so it wouldn't make a difference. RP's opinion of lithium seemed positive since he compared it to sodium. Would anyone provide us with RP's opinion on lithium itself?
 

4peatssake

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Ray Peat said:
In the periodic table of the elements, lithium is immediately above sodium, meaning that it has the chemical properties of sodium, but with a smaller atomic radius, which makes its electrical charge more intense. Its physiological effects are so close to sodium’s that we can get clues to sodium’s actions by watching what lithium does.

Chronic consumption of lithium blocks the release of adrenalin from the adrenal glands, and it also has extensive antiserotonin effects, inhibiting its release from some sites, and blocking its actions at others.

Lithium forms a complex with the ammonia molecule, and since the ammonia molecule mimics the effects of serotonin, especially in fatigue, this could be involved in lithium’s antiserotonergic effects. Ammonia, like serotonin, impairs mitochondrial energy production (at a minimum, it uses energy in being converted to urea), so anti-ammonia, anti-serotonin agents make more energy available for adaptation. Lithium has been demonstrated to restore the energy metabolism of mitochondria (Gulidova, 1977).
Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease

Ray Peat said:
Free radicals are fragments of molecules that are very destructive to all cells and system of the body.

Respiration refers to the absorption of oxygen by cells, which releases energy. The structure inside the cell in which energy is produced by respiration is called the mitochondrion. Oxidation refers to the combination of a substance with oxygen. This can be beneficial, as in normal respiration that produces energy, or harmful, as in rancidity, irradiation, or stress reactions. Antioxidants: Vitamin E and vitamin C are known as antioxidants, because they stop the harmful free-radical chain reactions which often involve oxygen, but they do not inhibit normal oxidation processes in cells. "Chain breaker" would be a more suitable term. It is often the deficiency of oxygen which unleashes the dangerous free-radical processes. Many substances can function as antioxidants/chain breakers: thyroxine, uric acid, biliverdin, selenium, iodine, vitamin A, sodium, magnesium, and lithium, and a variety of enzymes. Saturated fats work with antioxidants to block the spread of free-radical chain reactions. Age pigment is the brown material that forms spots on aging skin, and that accumulates in the lens of the eye forming cataracts, and in blood vessels causing hardening of the arteries, and in the heart and brain and other organs, causing their functions to deteriorate with age. It is made up of oxidized unsaturated oils with iron.
Iron's Dangers

Ray also mentions lithium a few times in this article - one of my personal favorites.

A Biophysical Approach to Altered Consciousness
 

Ben

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A study which showed lithium extends longevity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21301855

If lithium's anti-thyroid effect outweighed it's positives, it would shorten lifespan because metabolic rate correlates with longevity. Maybe I'll give it a shot. There are supplements on amazon, of lithium carbonate, but they have fillers/binders. Maybe a salt can be synthesized from lithium metal, for example lithium carbonate could be made by adding baking soda, or lithium chloride by adding chlorine. I don't know about the availability of lithium metal, its dosage, solubility, various salts, etc. Dosage is particularly important because lithium is known for causing memory problems. I'll do some research.
 

aguilaroja

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Ben said:
embs2001 said:
.... RP's opinion of lithium seemed positive since he compared it to sodium. Would anyone provide us with RP's opinion on lithium itself?

I recall reading the passages about lithium by Dr. Peat but the emphasis seemed largely that the (profit-driven) research on lithium benefits applied to the simpler, safer, more readily available sodium.

I would suggest caution about lithium. Here's the admittedly arbitrary experience in people I know who have used lithium. I have seen a few modest benefits in a few using very small doses of lithium orotate nutrient capsules in place of the prescription lithium, for people with psychiatric situations and explicit, long term psychiatry diagnoses. I have known dozens who used the prescription lithium with marked side effects, including impaired kidney and/or thyroid function.

Look up prescription lithium on the web:
"Renal side effects including nephrogenic diabetes insipidus have been reported in as many as 50% of patients started on lithium."
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/lithium-side-effects.html

There are many kinds of side effects listed, though granted the commercial pharmaceutical replacements for lithium may be more profitable and skew the reporting.

Yes, I would also welcome Dr. Peat's ideas about direct use of lithium.

I remain cautious about alleged lithium deficiencies. Yes, there are a very few suggestive articles, For instance:

-Schafer. Evaluation of beneficial and adverse effects on plants and animals following lithium deficiency and supplementation, and on humans following lithium treatment of mood disorders. Trace Elem Electrolytes. 29(2):91-112 (2012).
-Schrauzer. Lithium: occurrence, dietary intakes, nutritional essentiality. J Am Coll. Nutr. 21:14-21 (2002).

But it is not clear to me what reliable way there is of evaluating alleged low lithium, and how best to "replace" it. I have seen some of the alternative labs (such as hair & urine testing) give reports of levels with recommended ranges. I remain cautious.

But this remains a substance available in food, with a fairly narrow range of safety and not so clear indications. IF there is a provisional recommendation for intake, it is in the range of one mg daily for an average sized adult. Many restorative measures discussed on the forum have clearer uses, theory, and safety.
 

dukez07

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Nov 22, 2013
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Interesting that lithium and sodium are described as being almost identical in their effects by RP, apart from one 'minor detail' - lithium, apparently decreases metabolic rate, but sodium increases it?

I don't buy into the view that LO causes memory problems. It's a completely different game player, in comparison to its more widely used/prescribed brother (carbonate). LO is actually used as a nootropic by many over at ImmInst (just one example). When you are taking the carbonate, you are taking it in a dosage that is going to have the capability of causing memory issues. LO comes in
a dosage format that is viewed, by some medical professionals, as being 'clinically insignificant'. They doubt whether it has any noticeable effects whatsoever. Perhaps that's why it's sold as a dietary supplement. Of course, LO is more concentrated, but 5mg is still nowhere near a prescribed dose of carbonate.

When/if you get the lithium in your water supply, once again, the dose will be nowhere near that of a prescribed dose of carbonate. Comparing carbonate to LO is simply ridiculous.
 

himsahimsa

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Jan 25, 2014
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Are you talking about L[sub]2[/sub]O? Lithium oxide. Or something else entirely?
 

dukez07

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Hmmm. Maybe 'LO' isn't the correct term for lithium orotate (I honestly wouldn't have a clue), but yes, I am referring to Orotate.
 

johnsmith

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@4peatssake
A Biophysical Approach to Altered Consciousness
"Sensitivity and imaginativeness are frequently attributed to alcoholics. (Newsweek, July 2, 1973, reported successful use of lithium salts to treat alcoholism; this could be interpreted as acting to depress the "dream process," lowering excitability."

I don't know if i want to depress the dream process. Im on 150 mcg's right now.
 

Frankdee20

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Is peat pro or anti lithium oroate...im so confused!
He is against the actual orotic acid due to its tendency or link with cell growth. Lithium can be anti thyroid but that’s in larger amounts than a simple 2mg daily.
 
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