Lithium (and Sodium) May Treat (osteo)arthritis

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Ray has written on the benefits of lithium for mitochondrial health, ammonia reduction, etc. He also said that sodium has the same benefits and it is much safer than lithium. So, for those with bone/joint issues may be increasing salt intake will be beneficial.

    http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/159456.html
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 3/abstract
    "...Moreover, lithium chloride did not induce the expression of catabolic enzymes in human articular chondrocytes. In an inflammatory model of cartilage destruction, lithium chloride blocked interleukin-1β signalling in the form of nitric oxide and prostaglandin E2 release and prevented matrix catabolism such that the loss of mechanical integrity observed with interleukin-1β alone was inhibited. This study provides further support for lithium chloride as a novel compound for the treatment of osteoarthritis."

    The study found that lithium has anti-inflammatory effect through specific biomarkers such as IL-1b and PGE2. Another substance that also blocks these inflammatory mediators is aspirin, and at relatively low doses too. One human study found complete suppression of PGE2 and IL-1b at doses of 500mg taken for 2 months.
     
  2. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    And arthritis comes with fluid retention, it all makes sense :mrgreen:
     
  3. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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  5. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    :cool: :shock:

    Lithium decreases VEGF mRNA expression in leukocytes of healthy subjects and patients with bipolar disorder

    Leukocyte and platelet counts are correlated with serum VEGF-A and TGF-β1 levels [Clinical Implications of VEGF, TGF-β1, and IL-1β in Patients with Advanced Non-small Cell Lung Cancer.]

    Expression of VEGF correlated with infarct volume, clinical disability (Scandinavian Stroke Scale), and peripheral leukocytosis [Serial measurement of vascular endothelial growth factor and transforming growth factor-beta1 in serum of patients with acute ischemic stroke.]

    A statistically significant correlation was found between plasma VEGF concentrations and
    certain biological characteristics of OHSS, such as capillary leakage and leukocytosis [The role of vascular endothelial growth factor and interleukins in the pathogenesis of severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome]

    What about them veins?


    Thirty patients with knee osteoarthritis and thirty control cases with no knee
    symptoms were evaluated clinically for chronic venous insufficiency.
    Result: Knee osteoarthritis was significantly associated with leg edema (P value 0.002),
    varicose veins (P value 0.011) and abnormal leg veins (whether varicose veins alone or
    spider veins or both), (P values 0.02).
    [http://www.bahrainmedicalbulletin.com/march_2012/The_association.pdf]


    Venous Varicosity
    There was a striking association between
    lower limb varicosities and osteoarthritis of the
    knee (Fig. 1).
    In this series 48 patients had marked superficial
    varicosities and 35 had had symptoms
    from these. All but two of these 48 patients
    had had the "venous" element of pain associated
    with their osteoarthritic knees. That is,
    no less than 67% of patients with osteoarthritis

    and the venous variety of pain also had varicose
    veins. Also of considerable interest was
    the fact that in 21 patients with unilateral osteoarthritis,
    the varicose veins were either confined
    to or were worse on the osteoarthritic side
    (F,ig. 1).
    The history of vein disease always predated
    the osteoarthritic symptoms by 3 to 18 years.
    To draw a comparison with the incidence of
    lower limb varicose veins in a similar age
    group 100 outpatients attending for complaints
    not referable to the lower limbs, were examined.
    22 had varicose veins. Cockett and Dodd (1956)
    quote a 26% incidence of varicose vein disease
    in their survey of the general population.

    [http://pmj.bmj.com/content/41/474/172.full.pdf]
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    And given the causal role of estrogen in varicose veins and VEGF, I think we can make the connection estrogen => osteoarthritis.
     
  7. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    :ss

    Skin damage in the presence of chronic venous disease is partially mediated through leukocytes. [Increased plasma vascular endothelial growth factor among patients with chronic venous disease.]

    Well, I know someone who has been a fan of aspirin for decades and has "arthrosis", varicose veins, fluid retention, and the spine is a big mess... I guess it will take more aspirin than that.
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Then it's time to try lithium or heaps of salt.
     
  9. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Yeah, but that's where the dogma (mental chains) comes in :lol:
     
  10. Philomath

    Philomath Member

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    @haidut, I just ran across this while searching for Magnesium salicylate... lithium salicylate - sold, rather inexpensively, by several chemical companies. Does this impart the benefits of Lithium and Aspirin? If nothing else, is it a safer form of Lithium?
    USF Health researchers closer to improving safety, effectiveness of lithium therapy
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think it does give the benefit of both, but lithium should be taken in small doses only. It has a very narrow therapeutic dose range and beyond that becomes very toxic to kidneys and some other organs. So, the amount of this salt you'll be able to take would probably be very small and as such very little aspirin would get into your system. It may still have an effect but it would be probably similar to a baby aspirin dose.
    The popular press article does say this salt is without the risks of other salts like lithium carbonate. I will look at the study when I get a chance and post here why they think it is safer and in what equivalent doses for humans.
     
  12. Philomath

    Philomath Member

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  13. Ron J

    Ron J Member

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    Hey @haidut
    Do you think higher sodium intake may increase calcium's urinary excretion?
     
  14. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Have not seen much on that. Higher sodium may decrease magnesium and potassium excretion, but calcium is more regulated by vitamin D and PTH.
     
  15. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    Which form of lithium would you recommend
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Any salt would be fine as long as the elemental lithium amount does not exceed say 5mg daily. But, as I said in the post, sodium would be safer.
     
  17. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

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    This finding is related to rheumatoid arthritis, regarded in the medical world as a different entity from osteoarthritis. It still suggests a beneficial role for sodium function.

    Sodium excretion is higher in patients with rheumatoid arthritis than in matched controls. - PubMed - NCBI
    “Sodium excretion was greater for patients with early RA…than controls…. Patients with radiographic erosion at the time of diagnosis had a higher sodium excretion than those without….”
    “CONCLUSION: Patients with early RA showed increased sodium excretion which may have contributed to autoimmunity.”
     
  18. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Very interesting, thanks! That would also suggest hypothyroidism in RA patients, right? The only other thing that causes sodium loss is vasopressin, which I don't think is elevated in RA.
     
  19. biggirlkisss

    biggirlkisss Member

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    why does litaum though cause fiberious long term any ideas why?
     
  20. TreasureVibe

    TreasureVibe Member

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    Bump!
     
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