Lisuride With Mirtazapine Experiences

[DaveFoster]

Lisuride has mixed serotonergic activity and can cause serotonin syndrome in high dosages or when combined with a serotonergic drug:

"A characteristic behavioral syndrome has been associated with stimulation of central serotonin receptors in rats. This behavior can be produced by inhibition of monoamine oxidase and administration of 5-hydroxytryptophan as well as by direct acting serotonergic agonists. LSD and the novel ergot derivative lisuirde produced this syndrome in rats. These drugs possess both serotonergic and dopaminergic properties. Since changes in dopaminergic function have also been reported to affect the so-called serotonin syndrome, it was not clear how the two ergot drugs acted to produce this syndrome. The syndrome produced by pargyline and 5-hydroxytryptophan methyl ester was blocked by haloperidol, methysergide, parachlorophenylalanine, and alpha-methylparatyrosine; these treatments failed to block the effects of lisuride. Metoclopramide did not block the syndrome produced by either lisuride or pargyline plus 5-hydroxytryptophan methyl ester. Methysergide partially blocked the behavioral effects of LSD; pretreatment with either haloperidol or metoclopramide potentiated and prolonged the behavioral effects of LSD. The results suggest that dopaminergic modulation of the serotonin syndrome occurs before the serotonin receptor involved in this behavior. Also, the differences between LSD and lisuride may be relevant to their different psychopharmacological properties."

Reference: Lisuride and LSD: Dopaminergic and serotonergic interactions in the “serotonin syndrome”
​

Mirtazapine has also been shown to cause serotonin syndrome in certain instances:

"A 75-year-old man developed agitation, confusion, incoordination, and gait disturbance because of progressive rigidity. Mirtazapine had been started 8 days earlier to control major depression. Physical examination revealed diaphoresis, low-grade fever, hypertension, tachycardia, bilateral cogwheel rigidity, hyperreflexia, tremor, and myoclonus, symptoms and signs that are consistent with severe SS."

Reference: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1345/aph.1A302?journalCode=aopd
​

Has anyone taken both lisuride and mirtazapine concomitantly with success?

 

[ilikecats]

I’ve been taking lisuride everyday for 4 months. I’m at 100mcg. So far so good... I’m having a problem recently with extreme texture sensitivity in certain situation. Like touching cardboard sends me over the edge. This is something I associate with autism and something I believe I had before starting lisuride. I think it’s due to dropping my protein intake to low but I’m not sure

 

[DaveFoster]

I’ve been taking lisuride everyday for 4 months. I’m at 100mcg. So far so good... I’m having a problem recently with extreme texture sensitivity in certain situation. Like touching cardboard sends me over the edge. This is something I associate with autism and something I believe I had before starting lisuride. I think it’s due to dropping my protein intake to low but I’m not sure

I had the same symptoms when I started lamotrigine, except the "shivers" happened even just sitting in place: very uncomfortable.

Are you also taking mirtazapine?

 

[ilikecats]

@DaveFoster Interesting... that sounds like it would suck. The feeling of walking on crunchy snow was driving me crazy this winter. Yeah I wish I tracked the occurrence of this symptom better, that's kind of unusual for me (to not be aware of when something like that started). I can say Ive been in situations where I was feeling bad and stressed and I took 200mcg of lisuride and it completely turned everything around. But also I recall when I first started experimenting with that less seemed to be more and I got some possible serotonergic symptoms when taking more than 50mcg. Haidut mentions that the serotonergic effects are dependent on the dose. 50mcg was doing some magical things in the beginning for me, I still feel like its pushing things in the right direction. I've never taken mitrazapine. What did you think of mirtazapine? Are you still on it? BTW did blossom pm you about her experience with lisuride? I noticed she didn't respond in the thread

 

[DaveFoster]

@DaveFoster Interesting... that sounds like it would suck. The feeling of walking on crunchy snow was driving me crazy this winter. Yeah I wish I tracked the occurrence of this symptom better, that's kind of unusual for me (to not be aware of when something like that started). I can say Ive been in situations where I was feeling bad and stressed and I took 200mcg of lisuride and it completely turned everything around. But also I recall when I first started experimenting with that less seemed to be more and I got some possible serotonergic symptoms when taking more than 50mcg. Haidut mentions that the serotonergic effects are dependent on the dose. 50mcg was doing some magical things in the beginning for me, I still feel like its pushing things in the right direction. I've never taken mitrazapine. What did you think of mirtazapine? Are you still on it? BTW did blossom pm you about her experience with lisuride? I noticed she didn't respond in the thread

Mirtazapine's great for mental health; I've had no negative symptoms whatsoever. It's more helpful for anxiety than depression, as it lowers gut inflammation powerfully. It can cause constipation, so a laxative such as magnesium or cascara sagrada can counter this effect. The weight gain peaks at around 30 mg, but it tends to lessen with a 45 mg daily dosage.

Unfortunately it contributes to fibrosis of the heart, and probably the lungs and liver.

The sensitivity to cardboard or other textures resembles the pathology behind migraines or headaches with sensitivities to light and sound and tendencies toward restless leg syndrome (RLS) and akathisia (an inability to sit still): more broadly, sensitization to any environmental stimuli.

"The purpose of the research presented in this article was to characterize restless leg syndrome (RLS) in a headache population and correlate treatment induced risks with dopamine blockers. Fifty patients with severe headache who were admitted to an outpatient infusion center were enrolled. The diagnosis of RLS was established using the International Restless Leg Syndrome Study Group criteria. Patients were screened for baseline akathisia using an akathisia scale and reexamined for akathisia after receiving intravenous infusion with one of four dopamine receptor blocking agents as treatment for their headaches. A change from baseline to post-infusion assessment of two points on a global assessment of akathisia was considered positive for drug-induced akathisia. Our results indicated that 41 (82%) of patients had episodic or chronic migraine. The rest had new daily persistent headache, cluster, or posttraumatic headache. Seventeen subjects (34%) met the criteria for RLS. Nineteen (38%) of the subjects developed drug-induced akathisia. Thirteen (76.5%) of the subjects with RLS developed akathisia compared with only 6 of the 33 (18.2%) without RLS (P<.0001). Finally, we concluded that headache patients with RLS are at a greatly increased risk of developing drug-induced akathisia when treated with intravenous dopamine receptor blocking agents."

Reference: Restless legs syndrome and drug-induced akathisia in headache patients. - PubMed - NCBI​

 

[Blossom]

BTW did blossom pm you about her experience with lisuride? I noticed she didn't respond in the thread

I'm sorry, I'm not sure about this? I have taken both in the past but not at the same time. I had a positive experience with lisuride but I've had issues with high prolactin so that could be why!

I took mirtazapine when I was going through a major family crisis/upheaval and couldn't sleep due to the stress and found it very helpful. It's been over a year now since I stopped mirtazapine and at least a couple years since I have taken lisuride.

 

[ilikecats]

@Blossom Hey! good to hear your experience. I'm not 100 percent sure what the thread we are talking about is but dave was asking about potential withdrawal symptoms from lisuride and I mentioned you because I knew you had taken it for a long time. He tagged you in a post asking if you experienced any withdrawl upon cessation, I'm not sure if you saw it. Did you experience any withdrawals?

 

[Blossom]

@Blossom Hey! good to hear your experience. I'm not 100 percent sure what the thread we are talking about is but dave was asking about potential withdrawal symptoms from lisuride and I mentioned you because I knew you had taken it for a long time. He tagged you in a post asking if you experienced any withdrawl upon cessation, I'm not sure if you saw it. Did you experience any withdrawals?

No withdrawal at all!
Sorry I didn't see the tag-I think I need to update my alerts.

 

[ilikecats]

@Blossom Cool! thanks for the info

 

[Blossom]

@Blossom Cool! thanks for the info

You're welcome.

 

[DaveFoster]

@Blossom
Thanks Blossom! I'll post your quote in the lisuride thread; there have been some worries about dopamine-agonist withdrawal syndrome (DAWS) with lisuride taken long-term.

 

[Blossom]

@Blossom
Thanks Blossom! I'll post your quote in the lisuride thread; there have been some worries about dopamine-agonist withdrawal syndrome (DAWS) with lisuride taken long-term.

You're welcome. I'll have to read that thread!

 

[inthedark]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure about this? I have taken both in the past but not at the same time. I had a positive experience with lisuride but I've had issues with high prolactin so that could be why!

I took mirtazapine when I was going through a major family crisis/upheaval and couldn't sleep due to the stress and found it very helpful. It's been over a year now since I stopped mirtazapine and at least a couple years since I have taken lisuride.

Blossom, If it's alright, would you be able to PM me your experience with Lisuride? My partner has had issues with estrogen and I suspect high prolactin and serotonin,(weight gain, tiredness, mood issues). I've been thinking lisuride or metergoline would help her a lot and I've been reading everything I can find on here about them. Any input you may have on this substance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Blossom]

Blossom, If it's alright, would you be able to PM me your experience with Lisuride? My partner has had issues with estrogen and I suspect high prolactin and serotonin,(weight gain, tiredness, mood issues). I've been thinking lisuride or metergoline would help her a lot and I've been reading everything I can find on here about them. Any input you may have on this substance would be greatly appreciated.

I PM'd!

 

[Logan-]

From Wikipedia:

Mirtazapine does not have serotonergic activity and does not cause serotonergic side effects or serotonin syndrome.[71][97] This is in accordance with the fact that it is not a serotonin reuptake inhibitor or MAOI, nor a serotonin receptor agonist.[71][97] There are no reports of serotonin syndrome in association with mirtazapine alone, and mirtazapine has not been found to cause serotonin syndrome in overdose.[71][97][98] However, there are a handful of case reports of serotonin syndrome occurring with mirtazapine in combination with serotonergic drugs like SSRIs, although such reports are unusual, very rare, and do not necessarily implicate mirtazapine as causative.[71][99][100][101] The addition of mirtazapine to an MAOI does not appear to cause serotonin syndrome.[97] This is in accordance with the fact that the 5-HT2A receptor is the predominant serotonin receptor thought to be involved in the pathophysiology of serotonin syndrome (with the 5-HT1A receptor seeming to be protective).[71][97] Mirtazapine is a potent 5-HT2A receptor antagonist, and cyproheptadine, a drug that shares this property, mediates recovery from serotonin syndrome and is an antidote against it.[71][102]

Mirtazapine - Wikipedia

 

[Frankdee20]

From Wikipedia:



Mirtazapine - Wikipedia

It is not an SSRI

 

[Frankdee20]

It is related to Mianserin but it blocks serotonin receptors to a lesser degree