Lisuride - Liquid Lisuride For Lab/R&D

Regina

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You guys need to remember that all drugs have positives and negatives. If you read enough about Dopamine Agonists...well bad things can happen.

Here is my experience and review of lisuride for my rat (or whatever):

My goal with lisuride was similar to one that people have with LSD. LSD can dislodge old thought patterns, it can shake you up. Read around and you will find experiences shared that show people changed forever after a trip. Lisuride has a lot of the same agonism as LSD, so my main goal was to use it to really feel what a full dopamine surge feels like. Pboy talked about a similar experience he had using lots of cacao. A full dopaminergic state is something to behold.

I used two dosages spaced about a week apart in early August. The first dose was cautious: 3 drops(75mcg), the second double that at 6 drops (150mcg). I would say the six drop dosage really solidified the experience, and what to expect.

•3 drops was very sedative. For the first hour and a half I could literally just lay there. A massive feeling of lethargy overcame me. The feeling was quite startling because I thought I would waste the rest of the day. However within an hour and a half, this sedation passed rather quickly. I got up and felt energetic. The six drop dosage was similar, however the sedation was less and I was up and about within an hour. The higher dose was much less sedative for me. I also noticed that time passed more slowly. Very trippy feeling. After the sedation period passed, it felt like I had slept for hours, and was arising to a new day. Yet only an hour or so had passed. The day lengthened considerably.

•After the sedation period, I felt rather god like. The best way to describe it is that first drink you have when you are young (before the years of alcohol abuse numb you to all but pain). Anxiety falls away, fear leaves you, and you suddenly feel like you can do as you wish. However unlike alcohol, with lisuride you do not lose your inhibitions. You still realize that jumping off the roof into the pool is not a great idea. Overwhelming confidence filled me. I felt supremely in this moment. There was not an issue that could arise that could not be looked at, and then solved. If the solution was wrong, adjustments would be made, and the new solution applied. I had focus to spare. I could pay attention to whatever was happening in this moment, while simultaneously coming up with creative jokes, rearranging the words around that people spoke, noticing the new shoe laces that my girl friend had purchased. How could I not be confident with full awareness? This feeling was VERY similar to taking lots of B vitamins, or eating lots of liver. You can kind of get an idea of what it feels like with those methods if you do not want to buy lisuride. However those will not have the lasting effects obviously.

•After some time, that feeling of supreme confidence wears off, and things just get kind of confusing. I really do not know how to talk about the days afterwards. Sometimes I felt great, sometimes scared, sometimes elated. Whatever I was feeling, I did not lose that confidence that seemed to have sprouted in my root. It may actually still be there, it is hard to know. I was impulsive at times, really wanting to DO something, to explore something, to figure something out. I ate lots of food. Everything I did, I did it a lot, and almost OCD like. Things I did were not satisfying, I had to KEEP doing them, I had to play MORE golf, eat MORE food, think more deeply, more more more.

•Things did get shaken up, like I wanted, but not in a great all loving way. See a lot of the things you believe, even if limiting, also protect you in some ways. Losing them can be uncomfortable. One of those beliefs I will share with you is the belief about youth. I had a very compulsive childhood, lots of video games, lots of impulsivity. risk taking, chaos. As I grew older, I thought the wisdom from those experiences instilled in me the knowledge of how to live better then that. Lisuride pretty much took me right back. My stomach shrank, my eye brows thickened, my jaw strengthened. Watching before the mirror as I grew younger was one of the most frightening things about this whole process. With that came the urge to play games again. I noticed I impulsively would go out at night...why not? I felt great, I had the energy. This whole process really made me question my ideas about health, and youth. Perhaps wisdom IS being old. Perhaps there is no such thing as wisdom in youth. Hard to explain. Hard to fathom that a simple chemical could transport me right out of my comfortable wisdom of the way of life. A lot less control then I thought. I felt a bit like I lived in another's body for awhile.

•I wanted to do one more experiment, but I lost the desire really. I am pretty sensitive to vitamins and supplements. So your mileage will probably vary, but this is the experience of someone who is sensitive to this kind of thing. If I took this all the time...I shudder to think what would happen. Would I become young again for a few years, only to rapidly age as my D receptors down regulate? Flame out? Robin Williams-it? There was some kind of come down, not like cocaine or alcohol, no crash, no desire for more Lisuride. So maybe it could be sustainable...I know that if I had a couple years to live, doing lisuride every day would be a nice way to spend it. You would leave comfort behind.

" that seemed to have sprouted in my root". Yes. You have a true nature. It really does not have an age. It can feel child-like (Shoshin in japanese). Piercing the veil can cut the root of delusion. So in this way it can both provide life or take it away -- depending what walls you have erected. Sand castles? Ghost caves? It's just showing you without discrimination. So you can look at it. So just look at it. Penetrate it. See all its multiplicities. If you think of things as 'reference points', you can hold up your two index fingers. Ask, where is the middle? Then take away your fingers and ask the question. The answer then becomes "middle of what?" Which reference points and erected walls do you want to keep and which ones are just a pain in your ****? Let your root decide. Because it can and always can. That ability never goes away with or without Lisuride. But it's a good tool or any tool that helps you see clearly--piercing the veil. But still, nature is dangerous. It does suck you up and down without discrimination. So we do erect walls and constructs to keep nature away. I think it is healthy to see reality clearly and choose what is needed to protect yourself while you experience your life. Like a river. We see the beautiful water but it is also carving a scar in the landscape. It's both. It's not dualistic. So you can be "child-like" whilst having the adult knowledge of the scars carving in your landscape. There really is no cognitive dissonance. But there is a rewarding ability to see the multiplicities and accept them disambiguated.
 

Soren

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@Tarmander Interesting and thought provoking testimonial. Made me think of the movie Limitless, particularity the way you described the initial peak of experience and the climb down afterwards. The desire for more more more, feel like this is one step removed from NZT haha. Thanks for sharing.
 

allblues

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Great post @Tarmander. I've been trying 1-2 drops for the past 3 days along with 4 mg cyproheptadine (1 mg/4 hours).
I can second much of what you describe, the confidence, tendency towards wordplay, finding meaning in things
i think i normally would notice, but be too distracted to begin thinking about in detail. Thoughts were flowing
freely and easily.

I have been given some new assignments at work and was in training for the whole day of my first dosing.
Learning was easier. I would say it's a great antidepressant but that might not be the right word.

Gonna take a break for a few days but i will probably return to lisuride.

I had focus to spare.

This!
 

NathanK

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I would add that some prolactin is necessary for normal HPTA/gonadal function.

Believe two things can happen

1. Dopamine agonists (especially when D2-predominant) may reduce cAMP levels in the brain and lower normal gonadotropin secretion
2. Prolactin itself upregulates gonadotropin receptors in testes, meaning if prolactin tanks, then testicular response to the gonadotropins you do produce will be less then usual. As a result of this, less androgens and estrogen will be available to promote libido.

Believe @haidut has said that a serum prolactin < 5 tends to be ideal, Danny Roddy has said < 3 or < 4, and I would say in my experience 6 or 7 gives the best balance - although this is all individual to someone's particular circumstances and goals as usual.
Has anybody every tried to get an erection while on amphetamines or anything like cocaine? Not happening. There are lots of studies that compare amphetamines and DA drugs due to their dopaminergic similarities. It may not be amphetamine's excessive stress hormone stimulation that's shutting down GnRH or whatever, but possibly excessive dopamine reducing cAMP as you said (On second thought, D1 receptor subtypes promotes cAMP synthesis, while D2 inhibits and one of the side effects of a lot of the newer D2/D3 agonist drugs is sex addiction. Lisuride has the highest affinity for D1 receptors and the newer DAs have none). There's likely a lot more at play than any one thing since they're synergistic, but there is such things as too much of a good thing.

@Greg says you and others may find this part interesting from that last study I just linked to: "In contrast to current dogma, we found that cabergoline, lisuride and pergolide have a D3 receptor affinity comparable to that of pramipexole, while -DEC, bromocriptine and ropinirole displayed approximately 30fold lower affinities. The D3 receptor subtype is suggested to mediate psychiatric manifestations of dopamine receptor stimulation, because of its prominent distribution within the limbic system (Sokoleff et al., 1990; Gurevich and Joyce, 1998). Accordingly dopamine receptor agonists which exhibit a high affinity for the D3-receptor subtype should have antidepressant activity. Clinical studies which investigate this question, however, are lacking, although two studies demonstrated that the antidepressant effects of lisuride are similar to that of amitriptyline and nortriptyline (Vinar et al., 1985) and pramipexole alleviate the symptoms of major depression (Corrigan et al., 2000). On the other hand, it has been suggested that D3- rather than D2-receptor stimulation may mediate the antiparkinsonian effects of D2-preferring dopamine receptor agonists (Levant et al., 1999)...."

Is lisuride at all potentially a cause of weight (fat) gain?

Lisuride's pharmacokinetic data sheet says it's possible. Interestingly, it also has all of the compulsive behavior warnings of the newer DA drugs and the following (which causes me to believe theyre covering all of their bases): "Lisuride is an ergot derivative. After prolonged use of ergot derivatives, including lisuride, inflammatory changes of a fibrotic type have been detected (see “Adverse Effects”). Since these changes are of insidious onset, patients should be monitored. If a fibrotic disorder is suspected, the treatment should be halted and the diagnosis confirmed.". http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/d/Dopergintab.pdf

@haidut if you google "weight change" + *any newer DA generation drug* and you will find mostly weight gain as a problem. Could be from the compulsive behavior potential. It seems the older DAs are more associated with weight loss benefits.


Not sure which mechanism exactly is behind the lisuride effects but the libido-suppressive effects of high doses are well-known for all LSD-derivatives. Not sure why people take such high doses, just as I don't understand the same for the 11-keto DHT product. I mean, I never said taking more is better. It should be used in the minimum dose that produces beneficial effects.
+1 for minimum effective dose.
I mentioned early in that DHT thread that 1 drop (2 tops) daily should be more than sufficient for men taking long term to avoid serious side effects. I was surprised at the doses being used in the pages thereafter (hopefully short term). As with many substances, people should follow the time tested protocols of the pros and cycle drugs and hormones with a diagnostician mindset.

Enough of the old man rant, I found it interesting/odd that all pharmacological dopamine agonists increase extracellular acidification rates in dopaminergic hamster cells (I currently am prescribed ropinirole-No 5-HT1 affinity). IOW glycolisis--Increasing CO2 inside the cell and increasing (lactic) acid outside, which sounds pretty much opposite of what we'd want:
Comparison of the functional potencies of ropinirole and other dopamine receptor agonists at human D2(long), D3 and D4.4 receptors expressed in Chinese hamster ovary cells
Comparison of agonist potencies at human dopamine D2 and D3 receptors, expressed in the same cell line, using the Cytosensor Microphysiometer


Not that there's probably another explanation: The contributions of respiration and glycolysis to extracellular acid production
"We found that CO2 produced during respiration caused almost stoichiometric release of H(+) into the medium. With C2C12 myoblasts given glucose, respiration-derived CO2 contributed 34% of the total extracellular acidification. When glucose was omitted or replaced by palmitate or pyruvate, this value was 67-100%. Analysis of primary cells, cancer cell lines, stem cell lines, and isolated synaptosomes revealed contributions of CO2-produced acidification that were usually substantial, ranging from 3% to 100% of the total acidification rate."
 

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Greg says

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I am just taking a break for a while as I have lost touch with the feeling of being on it/ off it. I did feel some strong butterfly/anxious sensation for a couple days, like a kind of withdrawal.
 

NathanK

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fyi.... rAuwolscine

--------

I'd offer two further thoughts/notes on Lisuride, and on all dopamine-agonists...

1- There is a drug-induced injury called DAWS...Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome.

It leaves one in severe anhedonia, zero-libido, etc..

"It causes a denervation of Dopamine synapses/axons in 19% of people. This in turn needs several months to years to regenerate (if ever). The cause of DAWS is a mesolimbic dopaminergic denervation."

(that quote might've come from area1255's site...I can't remember.)

And, much worse, a few people NEVER recover....never get back a normal D2-group count and sensitivity. Kind of like post-finasteride syndrome.

In the few papers I've seen that mentioned DAWS, it was implied that not all DA's cause DAWS. I saw a mention somewhere that three DA's are known to cause it. Pramipexole was one...and, lo siento, I don't recall the other two right now. None of the papers that I have on lisuride, or any other particular DA (like piribedil, ropinirole, pergolide, et al) even mention DAWS.

Bottom Line: I'm going to be very careful of long-term DA use. Make sure the drug of choice isn't a DAWS-cause.

------------

2- There seems a definite possibility of Lisuride downregulating our dopamine receptors...not a good thing. This sounds very much like the action which leads to DAWS, in the case of agonists from which the receptor-decline doesn't heal well, or at all. But is Lisuride one of those agonists? Or is it an agonist from which one quickly and easily recovers receptor count/activity? I just don't know. DAWS info for specific compounds is really hard to find. Anyway, this may've already been posted, but just in case not... (emph. is mine)

"There was a progressive decline in the ability of lisuride to decrease locomotor activity in rats given daily injections of lisuride, down-regulation of DA autoreceptors after chronic treatment with presynaptic doses of lisuride." D2 mentioned
"rats treated daily for 26 days with saline or lisuride (100 micrograms/kg i.p.). Persistent stimulation by lisuride of DA receptors in striatum, nucleus accumbens, substantia nigra, frontal cortex, hippocampus and pituitary gland induced a down-regulation of D-2 receptors without changing the functional activity of D-1 receptors"

------------

For my rat, Lisuride sounds like a 'wonder drug', and so I do plan to order some from Georgi....but I'm going to be pretty firm about cycling it, rather than using it continuously.

If anyone here has already used Lisuride continuously (i.e. daily or near to it) for many months or years, and then stopped using it, please do post what you experienced when quitting. many thanks,

Dragon
Thank you for posting, Dragon. I hope everyone reads it. This is the stuff that keeps me up at night, but I didn't know it's name. I've been staring at a bottle of ropinirole for a couple months now trying to get a better understanding of the potential consequences of DAs and/or how to manage them. Dopamine agonists scare me a little since I am hereditarily prone to losing dopamine and do not want to speed things along any faster than possible. I think it takes high doses and over a long time, but there's no telling what's really going on inside (also like fibrosis with bromo) that might affect you down the line (hopefully good of course). Ultimately, I think it will be each person's physiology and family history that will decide if we get into trouble or not.

That said, I think all DAs have the potential for DAWS. The newer drugs will likely have more cases of DAWS, but those are also the more prescribed DA drugs these days. They didn't even have a name for DAWS until fairly recently so I wouldn't expect many to know much about it. My doctors certainly never said a word to me about it. I did found some of these comments and links to further info eye opening.

If only supplementing dopamine worked like pregnenolone and spurred your body to make more. :darts:

You guys need to remember that all drugs have positives and negatives. If you read enough about Dopamine Agonists...well bad things can happen.

Here is my experience and review of lisuride for my rat , every time I say I experienced something, I am really talking about my lab rat and his experiences. What a ride huh?:

My goal with lisuride was similar to one that people have with LSD. LSD can dislodge old thought patterns, it can shake you up. Read around and you will find experiences shared that show people changed forever after a trip. Lisuride has a lot of the same agonism as LSD, so my main goal was to use it to really feel what a full dopamine surge feels like. Pboy talked about a similar experience he had using lots of cacao. A full dopaminergic state is something to behold.

I used two dosages spaced about a week apart in early August. The first dose was cautious: 3 drops(75mcg), the second double that at 6 drops (150mcg). I would say the six drop dosage really solidified the experience, and what to expect.

•3 drops was very sedative. For the first hour and a half I could literally just lay there. A massive feeling of lethargy overcame me. The feeling was quite startling because I thought I would waste the rest of the day. However within an hour and a half, this sedation passed rather quickly. I got up and felt energetic. The six drop dosage was similar, however the sedation was less and I was up and about within an hour. The higher dose was much less sedative for me. I also noticed that time passed more slowly. Very trippy feeling. After the sedation period passed, it felt like I had slept for hours, and was arising to a new day. Yet only an hour or so had passed. The day lengthened considerably.

•After the sedation period, I felt rather god like. The best way to describe it is that first drink you have when you are young (before the years of alcohol abuse numb you to all but pain). Anxiety falls away, fear leaves you, and you suddenly feel like you can do as you wish. However unlike alcohol, with lisuride you do not lose your inhibitions. You still realize that jumping off the roof into the pool is not a great idea. Overwhelming confidence filled me. I felt supremely in this moment. There was not an issue that could arise that could not be looked at, and then solved. If the solution was wrong, adjustments would be made, and the new solution applied. I had focus to spare. I could pay attention to whatever was happening in this moment, while simultaneously coming up with creative jokes, rearranging the words around that people spoke, noticing the new shoe laces that my girl friend had purchased. How could I not be confident with full awareness? This feeling was VERY similar to taking lots of B vitamins, or eating lots of liver. You can kind of get an idea of what it feels like with those methods if you do not want to buy lisuride. However those will not have the lasting effects obviously.

•After some time, that feeling of supreme confidence wears off, and things just get kind of confusing. I really do not know how to talk about the days afterwards. Sometimes I felt great, sometimes scared, sometimes elated. Whatever I was feeling, I did not lose that confidence that seemed to have sprouted in my root. It may actually still be there, it is hard to know. I was impulsive at times, really wanting to DO something, to explore something, to figure something out. I ate lots of food. Everything I did, I did it a lot, and almost OCD like. Things I did were not satisfying, I had to KEEP doing them, I had to play MORE golf, eat MORE food, think more deeply, more more more.

•Things did get shaken up, like I wanted, but not in a great all loving way. See a lot of the things you believe, even if limiting, also protect you in some ways. Losing them can be uncomfortable. One of those beliefs I will share with you is the belief about youth. I had a very compulsive childhood, lots of video games, lots of impulsivity. risk taking, chaos. As I grew older, I thought the wisdom from those experiences instilled in me the knowledge of how to live better then that. Lisuride pretty much took me right back. My stomach shrank, my eye brows thickened, my jaw strengthened. Watching before the mirror as I grew younger was one of the most frightening things about this whole process. With that came the urge to play games again. I noticed I impulsively would go out at night...why not? I felt great, I had the energy. This whole process really made me question my ideas about health, and youth. Perhaps wisdom IS being old. Perhaps there is no such thing as wisdom in youth. Hard to explain. Hard to fathom that a simple chemical could transport me right out of my comfortable wisdom of the way of life. A lot less control then I thought. I felt a bit like I lived in another's body for awhile.

•I wanted to do one more experiment, but I lost the desire really. I am pretty sensitive to vitamins and supplements. So your mileage will probably vary, but this is the experience of someone who is sensitive to this kind of thing. If I took this all the time...I shudder to think what would happen. Would I become young again for a few years, only to rapidly age as my D receptors down regulate? Flame out? Robin Williams-it? There was some kind of come down, not like cocaine or alcohol, no crash, no desire for more Lisuride. So maybe it could be sustainable...I know that if I had a couple years to live, doing lisuride every day would be a nice way to spend it. You would leave comfort behind.
Amazing review. I think you hit a nerve. Insightful and thought provoking. Thanks for posting :10:
 
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haidut

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Has anybody every tried to get an erection while on amphetamines or anything like cocaine? Not happening. There are lots of studies that compare amphetamines and DA drugs due to their dopaminergic similarities. It may not be amphetamine's excessive stress hormone stimulation that's shutting down GnRH or whatever, but possibly excessive dopamine reducing cAMP as you said (On second thought, D1 receptor subtypes promotes cAMP synthesis, while D2 inhibits and one of the side effects of a lot of the newer D2/D3 agonist drugs is sex addiction. Lisuride has the highest affinity for D1 receptors and the newer DAs have none). There's likely a lot more at play than any one thing since they're synergistic, but there is such things as too much of a good thing.

@Greg says you and others may find this part interesting from that last study I just linked to: "In contrast to current dogma, we found that cabergoline, lisuride and pergolide have a D3 receptor affinity comparable to that of pramipexole, while -DEC, bromocriptine and ropinirole displayed approximately 30fold lower affinities. The D3 receptor subtype is suggested to mediate psychiatric manifestations of dopamine receptor stimulation, because of its prominent distribution within the limbic system (Sokoleff et al., 1990; Gurevich and Joyce, 1998). Accordingly dopamine receptor agonists which exhibit a high affinity for the D3-receptor subtype should have antidepressant activity. Clinical studies which investigate this question, however, are lacking, although two studies demonstrated that the antidepressant effects of lisuride are similar to that of amitriptyline and nortriptyline (Vinar et al., 1985) and pramipexole alleviate the symptoms of major depression (Corrigan et al., 2000). On the other hand, it has been suggested that D3- rather than D2-receptor stimulation may mediate the antiparkinsonian effects of D2-preferring dopamine receptor agonists (Levant et al., 1999)...."


Lisuride's pharmacokinetic data sheet says it's possible. Interestingly, it also has all of the compulsive behavior warnings of the newer DA drugs and the following (which causes me to believe theyre covering all of their bases): "Lisuride is an ergot derivative. After prolonged use of ergot derivatives, including lisuride, inflammatory changes of a fibrotic type have been detected (see “Adverse Effects”). Since these changes are of insidious onset, patients should be monitored. If a fibrotic disorder is suspected, the treatment should be halted and the diagnosis confirmed.". http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/d/Dopergintab.pdf

@haidut if you google "weight change" + *any newer DA generation drug* and you will find mostly weight gain as a problem. Could be from the compulsive behavior potential. It seems the older DAs are more associated with weight loss benefits.



+1 for minimum effective dose.
I mentioned early in that DHT thread that 1 drop (2 tops) daily should be more than sufficient for men taking long term to avoid serious side effects. I was surprised at the doses being used in the pages thereafter (hopefully short term). As with many substances, people should follow the time tested protocols of the pros and cycle drugs and hormones with a diagnostician mindset.

Enough of the old man rant, I found it interesting/odd that all pharmacological dopamine agonists increase extracellular acidification rates in dopaminergic hamster cells (I currently am prescribed ropinirole-No 5-HT1 affinity). IOW glycolisis--Increasing CO2 inside the cell and increasing (lactic) acid outside, which sounds pretty much opposite of what we'd want:
Comparison of the functional potencies of ropinirole and other dopamine receptor agonists at human D2(long), D3 and D4.4 receptors expressed in Chinese hamster ovary cells
Comparison of agonist potencies at human dopamine D2 and D3 receptors, expressed in the same cell line, using the Cytosensor Microphysiometer


Not that there's probably another explanation: The contributions of respiration and glycolysis to extracellular acid production
"We found that CO2 produced during respiration caused almost stoichiometric release of H(+) into the medium. With C2C12 myoblasts given glucose, respiration-derived CO2 contributed 34% of the total extracellular acidification. When glucose was omitted or replaced by palmitate or pyruvate, this value was 67-100%. Analysis of primary cells, cancer cell lines, stem cell lines, and isolated synaptosomes revealed contributions of CO2-produced acidification that were usually substantial, ranging from 3% to 100% of the total acidification rate."

Lisuride gets automatically wrapped with all the other ergots since they pretty much all seem to be agonists at the 5-HT2B receptor. Lisuride, and its saturated derivative terguride, are UNIQUE among the ertgots in that they actually have shown anti-fibrotic effect in studies since they are 5-HT2B antagonists. The research on 5-HT2B antagonism is relatively new and won't make its way into the drug brochures until Pfizer gets their terguride through the clinical trials.
I don't think the weight gain warning applies to (all) the ergots. All the actual human studies I have seen show weight LOSS (and especially fat loss) not weight gain. If these drugs were causing weight gain I doubt bromocriptine would have gotten approval from FDA for treating type II diabetes. Sometimes, the warnings about these drugs are done on a sweeping basis just because a drug belong to a class in which ONE drug is known to cause certain problems.
Just my 2c.
 
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NathanK

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@haidut yeah, the fibrosis and compulsive behavior on the same sheet was odd like they were probably covering all of their bases. Like a DA drug catch-all datasheet to be safe. I tagged you on the weight loss because I thought you wanted clarification from another comment of yours. These DAs really are pretty different from each other
 
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haidut

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@haidut yeah, the fibrosis and compulsive behavior on the same sheet was odd like they were probably covering all of their bases. Like a DA drug catch-all datasheet to be safe. I tagged you on the weight loss because I thought you wanted clarification from another comment of yours. These DAs really are pretty different from each other

Yeah, understood. I wonder how Pfizer will get around these warnings when it gets its terguride up for approval. I can totally see one of the FDA board members saying "but...but...this brochure says terguride would actually cause fibrosis. So, how much would you pay us to say it won't?"
 

NathanK

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Yeah, understood. I wonder how Pfizer will get around these warnings when it gets its terguride up for approval. I can totally see one of the FDA board members saying "but...but...this brochure says terguride would actually cause fibrosis. So, how much would you pay us to say it won't?"
They already approved all of it's bastard cousins, what's ooone more :roll:
 

Tarmander

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Wow, thank you all for the positive feedback on the write up, was not expecting that.

One other thing I forgot to share, in the sedation period, blood sugar was lowered quite a bit, lots of carbs had to be eaten. Something to be prepared for.
 

Dragon

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huh....on that linked page (the RLS forum)...I caught this....in the discussion of DAWS, which admittedly spread out to a few other subjects...not that that'd ever happen on OUR forum...the horror!... :)

"Long term and sometimes permanent side effects are discussed here just from staying off dopamines."

I.e., implying that -damage- from DAWS is from the -quitting-, and staying off it for a while.

kinda weird... I'm guessing that the writer maybe just didn't phrase their sentence quite right.

in ref to a post above....

yeah, I've ****88 a lot on coke...way back when...in my 30's. Erection is NOT a problem...IF you're young, not fat, and your babe is hot. Crank I don't know about....never did it...never wanted to. Although, ironically, after avoiding meth/ritalin for my whole life (diagnosed ADD at 5 yrs....now 59), I'm currently trying Ritalin and about to try Adderall (meth). So all those years of "I'll never touch THAT ***t" are going to go for naught...lol.

Second...every paper I've read on PD and DA's says sexual IMPULSES....not "addiction".
I don't buy into the sexual 'addiction', or even worse 'hypersexual', bull**** anyway. Who's to judge what HYPERsexual is? For me, nobody but me, that's for sure. **** the DSM. :)

third, in the mention of coke and crank, it was implied that they act like the DA's. To the best of my knowledge, they do not. They are instead Dopamine re-uptake inhibitors (DRI's) and release-promotors....NOT agonists in the usual sense (i.e. like lisuride, pramipexole, et al). ps; in fact, if I recall correctly, instead of simply blocking reuptake, meth actually makes the transporter run BACKWARDS!..lol...

dragon
 

NathanK

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Austin, TX
yeah, I've ****88 a lot on coke...way back when...in my 30's. Erection is NOT a problem...IF you're young, not fat, and your babe is hot. Crank I don't know about....never did it...never wanted to. Although, ironically, after avoiding meth/ritalin for my whole life (diagnosed ADD at 5 yrs....now 59), I'm currently trying Ritalin and about to try Adderall (meth).
Nah. Maybe in small doses youre ok, but limp penis is pretty common with cocaine: "Cocaine in and of itself is very much about the brain, but generally in most men it promotes impotence," Spanswick said. "It constricts and tightens veins needed for an erection.". Anxiety acts similarly. I recall in college trying adderall to study with a girl and wanted to hook up. The struggle was real and I was in excellent shape. I laughed about it with friends the next day because of how common it was. The same could be said for ephedrine which I took sometimes to stay awake and study. Yohimbe is supposed to be good for libido, but same story. The answer is in the dosage and the tolerance level (or how maybe how much your substantia nigra is already burnt out :shock:)

I mentioned this stuff to try to refine connections Koveras was trying to make about libido, dopamine, and high dose lisuride. All these dopaminergic drugs are far from linear and act in multiple ways in the body. There are studies that use amphetamines comparatively with DA so there is relevance, but I'd never imply they were the same. I don't know anything about meth or crank, but I assume they are stronger amphetamines that can destroy dopamine neurons. Sorry for not using quotes for "addiction"; we don't subscribe much to addiction around here :D.
 
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tastyfood

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@haidut Can this lower CO2 if not used in the right circumstances?

I just tried the product for the first time and I tested with the Capnometer. 33 ETCO2, lower than usual after dinner. For context I also tried Androsterone +DHEA and took some thyroid. Didn't have much for dinner tonight (empty fridge).
 
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haidut

haidut

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@haidut Can this lower CO2 if not used in the right circumstances?

I just tried the product for the first time and I tested with the Capnometer. 33 ETCO2, lower than usual after dinner. For context I also tried Androsterone +DHEA and took some thyroid. Didn't have much for dinner tonight (empty fridge).

Anything that lowers blood sugar could trigger stress hormone release and thus lower CO2.
 
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jaakkima

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Do we have some useful accounts of how effective lisuride is at lowering prolactin (and what kind of dose might be needed)? Is it as effective as bromo, cabergoline etc? My rat's prolactin recently was 14.1, trying to get that down.

Sorry I don't have very much time to try to find research myself....
 

jaakkima

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I wonder if it could be safer to use MB with lisuride and cypro combo than just with lisuride alone...
 
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haidut

haidut

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Do we have some useful accounts of how effective lisuride is at lowering prolactin (and what kind of dose might be needed)? Is it as effective as bromo, cabergoline etc? My rat's prolactin recently was 14.1, trying to get that down.

Sorry I don't have very much time to try to find research myself....

There are discussions on even very small doses lowering prolactin considerably in animals.
 
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mirc12354

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Is this product safe for people who have prolactin in good range (lower than 5 - like 4,8) and are considering taking it for other more psychological effects? Could lisuride lower prolactin to levels that are "too low"?
 

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