Lisuride - Liquid Lisuride For Lab/R&D

ilikecats

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
633
@haidut First of all my rat thinks lisuride is the bees knees. Truly a game changer pushes everything in the right direction. I’m finally starting to lose weight on my ridiculous 6000/7000 cal diet. Thank you for producing this stuff. But I’ve been keeping it in my bedroom and I have a ridiculous light set up with 2500w of incandescents and recently I bought a CO2 sensor that also shows the room temperature and i found out that my room has been getting as hot as 94 degrees Fahrenheit! Do you think the heat has completely destroyed the lisuride?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
@haidut First of all my rat thinks lisuride is the bees knees. Truly a game changer pushes everything in the right direction. I’m finally starting to lose weight on my ridiculous 6000/7000 cal diet. Thank you for producing this stuff. But I’ve been keeping it in my bedroom and I have a ridiculous light set up with 2500w of incandescents and recently I bought a CO2 sensor that also shows the room temperature and i found out that my room has been getting as hot as 94 degrees Fahrenheit! Do you think the heat has completely destroyed the lisuride?

Awesome, thanks for sharing!
Lisuride has not been studied much in solution but the vendor we get it from has liquid vials with lisuride in DMSO and their advertised shelf life is 6 months at room temp. The FDA says all liquid products have to be advertised as having shelf life no longer than 12 months, so that's that. I think keeping it 70-80 degrees is probably better than 90+.
 
Last edited:
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
@haidut Any idea how much lisuride to achieve the same potency as 1mg of pramipexole?

I don't think the two have been compared directly. Pramipexole seems to be used for PD in doses of 0.5mg - 1.5mg daily.
Analysis of pramipexole dose-response relationships in Parkinson's disease. - PubMed - NCBI

Lisuride is commonly used in doses of 0.2mg - 0.6mg for PD and other movement disorders. But until a direct comparison is done of both for PD it is hard to estimate dose equivalence.
 

cyclops

Member
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
1,636
Do you think Lisuride has the potential to negatively mess with the reward center of the brain and therefore motivation? Meaning if someone who is not achieving much in their life took it, they could get rewarded with dopamine without having to do anything. And this could make them unmotivated to make changes they need to?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Do you think Lisuride has the potential to negatively mess with the reward center of the brain and therefore motivation? Meaning if someone who is not achieving much in their life took it, they could get rewarded with dopamine without having to do anything. And this could make them unmotivated to make changes they need to?

I am not aware of anybody taking a dopamine agonist experience such effects. The human studies undoubtedly had such people as part of the study cohort and would have noted such effects as those would be considered highly undesirable.
 

DaveFoster

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
5,027
Location
Portland, Oregon
@haidut

Do you know lisuride's effect on AST and ALT liver enzymes?

Also, do you know if lisuride prolongs the QT interval?

I scanned this paper and saw nothing indicative of liver toxicity:

"...There are no reported cases of lisuride toxicity in the literature on Google Search or Pub med Search. Herein, we present a case of accidental overdose of lisuride maleate in a 21-month-old Saudi male..."​

 
Last edited:
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
@haidut

Do you know lisuride's effect on AST and ALT liver enzymes?

Also, do you know if lisuride prolongs the QT interval?

I scanned this paper and saw nothing indicative of liver toxicity:

"...There are no reported cases of lisuride toxicity in the literature on Google Search or Pub med Search. Herein, we present a case of accidental overdose of lisuride maleate in a 21-month-old Saudi male..."​


None of the ergot derivatives are known to elevate liver enzymes AFAIK. None of them are known to prolong the QT interval either, which is a side effect reserved for selective 5-HT3 antagonists like ondansetron (usually only in doses of 8mg of higher). That being said, it is considered a good routine to monitor liver and kidney biomarkers when taking any chemical long term just to make sure there is no some unknown mechanism manifested in this particular person. The lack of reported toxicity and the antifibrotic effects (unique among ergot derivatives together with metergoline) is what led me to lisuride.
 

DaveFoster

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
5,027
Location
Portland, Oregon
None of the ergot derivatives are known to elevate liver enzymes AFAIK. None of them are known to prolong the QT interval either, which is a side effect reserved for selective 5-HT3 antagonists like ondansetron (usually only in doses of 8mg of higher). That being said, it is considered a good routine to monitor liver and kidney biomarkers when taking any chemical long term just to make sure there is no some unknown mechanism manifested in this particular person. The lack of reported toxicity and the antifibrotic effects (unique among ergot derivatives together with metergoline) is what led me to lisuride.
Thank you.

Have you found out any new info about the propensity for lisuride to cause dopamine-agonist withdrawal syndrome (DAWS), and if a lower dose or non-continuous administration would lower the risk, particularly given lisuride's short half-life?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Thank you.

Have you found out any new info about the propensity for lisuride to cause dopamine-agonist withdrawal syndrome (DAWS), and if a lower dose or non-continuous administration would lower the risk, particularly given lisuride's short half-life?

I have not seen anything in regards to DAWS, and the evidence that I have seen suggests that it only occurs when the agonists are used in high doses such as in treating Parkinson or severe hyperprolactinemia. Duration of treatment also matters, and treatments of longer than 6 months seem to be involved in developing DAWS. So, using the lowest dose that produces benefits and limiting use to say a month should be good precautions against DAWS. Here is a link that shows (scroll to the bottom) that the ergot derivatives were the least likely to cause DAWS while the newer dopamine agonists like Pramipexole were the worst offender.
https://rxisk.org/sos-dopamine-agonist-withdrawal-syndrome/
 

Ron J

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2016
Messages
746
I have not seen anything in regards to DAWS, and the evidence that I have seen suggests that it only occurs when the agonists are used in high doses such as in treating Parkinson or severe hyperprolactinemia. Duration of treatment also matters, and treatments of longer than 6 months seem to be involved in developing DAWS. So, using the lowest dose that produces benefits and limiting use to say a month should be good precautions against DAWS. Here is a link that shows (scroll to the bottom) that the ergot derivatives were the least likely to cause DAWS while the newer dopamine agonists like Pramipexole were the worst offender.
https://rxisk.org/sos-dopamine-agonist-withdrawal-syndrome/
To use indefinitely, what would be a safe lisuride and diamant dose?
 

DaveFoster

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
5,027
Location
Portland, Oregon
I have not seen anything in regards to DAWS, and the evidence that I have seen suggests that it only occurs when the agonists are used in high doses such as in treating Parkinson or severe hyperprolactinemia. Duration of treatment also matters, and treatments of longer than 6 months seem to be involved in developing DAWS. So, using the lowest dose that produces benefits and limiting use to say a month should be good precautions against DAWS. Here is a link that shows (scroll to the bottom) that the ergot derivatives were the least likely to cause DAWS while the newer dopamine agonists like Pramipexole were the worst offender.
https://rxisk.org/sos-dopamine-agonist-withdrawal-syndrome/
Thank you. Those are some terrifying symptoms akin to benzodiazepine withdrawals.

It would be interesting to have some reports of people who used lisuride long-term and then abruptly stopped.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
To use indefinitely, what would be a safe lisuride and diamant dose?

Like I said, I don't think dopamine agonists should be used indefinitely unless somebody has Parkinson. Adamantane and its derivatives can probably be used long term but I would use the minimum dosage that produces effects, which for memantine/adamantane seems to be in the 5mg - 10mg range.
 

DaveFoster

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
5,027
Location
Portland, Oregon
@DaveFoster maybe ask forum member @Blossom she was on it for like a year I believe... my rats been on it a long time, maybe time for a break
Thank you.

Sure! I took it regularly for about a year but never more than 0.2 mg per day so a fairly low dose. I continued with it off and on for another year an a half just for short periods of time when I felt my prolactin was going up. I only stopped taking it because it became too hard to find. I never worried much about the safety because I knew it was safer than bromocriptine and I had already taken that med at high doses for 2 years from 2007-2009 for my prolactinoma.

After you took lisuride for about a year, did you experience any negative effects when you stopped?
 

Terma

Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
1,063
I tried to post this but forum has made it really ******* hard, it's frustrating. @haidut have you considered posting to multiple forums, or do you have a deal with charlie or some ***t? I don't hate him or anything but I am so sick of the internet. I'm out of energy for this ***t.

Anyway, I seriously believe lisuride could have major value as a regulator of circadian rhythms. 5-ht2c agonists apparently can emulate light signals: Serotonin 5-HT2c agonists mimic the effect of light pulses on circadian rhythms. - PubMed - NCBI And I've noticed personally that (although I did not enjoy lisuride's acute effects) lisuride seemed to improve ability to wake up at the right time. This has given it more value over time than metergoline, and I think that taking metergoline (or SSRIs) without lisuride to balance it out could be an error.

Agomelatine is a potential candidate for this argument: although the melatonin receptor agonism is obviously a strongly confounding factor, the 5-HT2c antagonism (as it's taken before bedtime) also suggests something for lisuride's usefulness. Agomelatine: A Novel Antidepressant

I would posit lisuride's ability to stimulate 5-HT2c while simultaneously making up for in dopamine agonism through other receptors, might make it a great candidate for fixing circadian rhythm issues.

If you took lisuride in the morning, and then took a combination of either agomelatine or GHB or baclofen (GHB is more physiologicially more appropriate than baclofen) and 5-alpha-DHP in the evening for the allopregnanolone, and at least 1-2 grams of glycine, could have potential solve anyone's circadian issues. To be clear the nighttime drug may require a combination of GABA-a and GABA-b drugs to be truly effective, as hinted by (this is about sleep paralysis in muscles during REM, however I think the interpretation is likely to extend to the other sleep mechanisms): Identification of the Transmitter and Receptor Mechanisms Responsible for REM Sleep Paralysis

(Although agomelatine has a rather good profile with non-5-HT2b-agonism, it can still give elevated liver enzymes)

I think lisuride could be an interesting pharmalogical alternative to agomelatine if used in the morning,.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
I tried to post this but forum has made it really ******* hard, it's frustrating. @haidut have you considered posting to multiple forums, or do you have a deal with charlie or some ***t? I don't hate him or anything but I am so sick of the internet. I'm out of energy for this ***t.

Anyway, I seriously believe lisuride could have major value as a regulator of circadian rhythms. 5-ht2c agonists apparently can emulate light signals: Serotonin 5-HT2c agonists mimic the effect of light pulses on circadian rhythms. - PubMed - NCBI And I've noticed personally that (although I did not enjoy lisuride's acute effects) lisuride seemed to improve ability to wake up at the right time. This has given it more value over time than metergoline, and I think that taking metergoline (or SSRIs) without lisuride to balance it out could be an error.

Agomelatine is a potential candidate for this argument: although the melatonin receptor agonism is obviously a strongly confounding factor, the 5-HT2c antagonism (as it's taken before bedtime) also suggests something for lisuride's usefulness. Agomelatine: A Novel Antidepressant

I would posit lisuride's ability to stimulate 5-HT2c while simultaneously making up for in dopamine agonism through other receptors, might make it a great candidate for fixing circadian rhythm issues.

If you took lisuride in the morning, and then took a combination of either agomelatine or GHB or baclofen (GHB is more physiologicially more appropriate than baclofen) and 5-alpha-DHP in the evening for the allopregnanolone, and at least 1-2 grams of glycine, could have potential solve anyone's circadian issues. To be clear the nighttime drug may require a combination of GABA-a and GABA-b drugs to be truly effective, as hinted by (this is about sleep paralysis in muscles during REM, however I think the interpretation is likely to extend to the other sleep mechanisms): Identification of the Transmitter and Receptor Mechanisms Responsible for REM Sleep Paralysis

(Although agomelatine has a rather good profile with non-5-HT2b-agonism, it can still give elevated liver enzymes)

I think lisuride could be an interesting pharmalogical alternative to agomelatine if used in the morning,.

Thanks, all good points on lisuride.
I don't have an agreement with anybody, just a lack of time :): I can barely manage to post on this forum and answer all questions/comments and post new stuff, let alone post on other forums. It just becomes impossible combined with a day job and business to run. So, it's best to focus on one thing and do that as best as one can IMO.
 

Wagner83

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
3,295
I tried to post this but forum has made it really ******* hard, it's frustrating. @haidut have you considered posting to multiple forums, or do you have a deal with charlie or some ***t? I don't hate him or anything but I am so sick of the internet. I'm out of energy for this ***t.

Anyway, I seriously believe lisuride could have major value as a regulator of circadian rhythms.
What happened and why would people prevent you form posting positive reviews?

What about timing your meals, macronutrients, blocking blue light, reading instead of using computers in the evening, going to bed and waking up at the same time everyday?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom