Lisuride And Metergoline Long-term Experiences

[Andman]

Ive been too depressed to even move let alone write a post. I've been able to eliminate any potential confounding factors and can confirm most definitely that metergoline can induce DAWS type symptoms. It has in me. Most noticeably, depression, confusion, brain fog, pain/aching muscles, fatigue, extreme dysphoria, anxiety, suidal ideation. I took 2.5 mg for 2 months or so. Just one person's experience but if youre new to meter, exercise caution. I was taking it for its serotonin antagonistic properties, and assumed that it didnt have a very strong binding affinity for D2. I dont know what its exact binding affinity is, but i know its strong enough to induce DAWS. Be careful with it

man that sucks. have you tried something like caffeine, aspirin, theanine etc in case its some kind of serotonin rebound?

 

[CalmAmygdala]

No but those are good ideas. Do those reduce serotonin substantially? Ive hopped on cypro at 4 mg a day along with some nootropics that upregulate dopamine like uridine and 9mbc, but these aren’t long term fixes. WHat are some good anti-serotonin agents you know of besides cypro? I dont like cypro's antidopaminergic activity.

Also, do you know if there is a rebound/withdrawal from cypro as well?

 

[S-VV]

No but those are good ideas. Do those reduce serotonin substantially? Ive hopped on cypro at 4 mg a day along with some nootropics that upregulate dopamine like uridine and 9mbc, but these aren’t long term fixes. WHat are some good anti-serotonin agents you know of besides cypro? I dont like cypro's antidopaminergic activity.

Also, do you know if there is a rebound/withdrawal from cypro as well?

There is. In fact, the rebound is used by some to minimize symptoms of PSSD

 

[SB4]

Every time I try to take metergoline I throw up very easily and get constipated, especially in my sleep. Has anyone experienced this or know why this would happen?

I had this problem with bromocriptine. Like someone else said, dopamine slows down digestion. Since I have mild gastroparesis to begin with this became a big problem for me.

I took metergoline for a few days but couldn't handle the insomnia so switched to bromocriptine, which I stayed on for about a week until I couldn't handle the gastroparesis. Whilst on these meds one day early on I felt good, more talkative and was running hot (metabolism). However, all the other days I felt more depressed and this continued for a few weeks after stopping the meds.

I briefly tried lisuride a few weeks ago. I had one day where I felt good and warm etc. Then that went away and the gastroparesis set in. This time I used it transdermally in hopes to avoid a concentrated dose in the stomach but it didnt seem to make much difference.

 

[CalmAmygdala]

There is. In fact, the rebound is used by some to minimize symptoms of PSSD

Yeah I’m aware that some (mainly one person that I can identify, to be honest) seem to experience a positive “rebound,” I personally haven’t experienced that. I personally don’t feel acutely bad on cypro and then feel better later, I feel better as soon as I start taking it. Now if I take it for an extended amount of time I have noticed a dip in mood, possibly due to D receptor antagonism. But that’s a separate topic.

what I’m asking here is: has anyone experienced a NEGATIVE rebound/withdrawal to cypro. If cypro antagonizes 5HT receptors it stands to reason it would upregulate them. This in turn might lead to a massive spike in serotonin upon discontinuation.

I’m wondering if others have experienced a phenomenon like this

 

[Epik]

I had this problem with bromocriptine. Like someone else said, dopamine slows down digestion. Since I have mild gastroparesis to begin with this became a big problem for me.

I took metergoline for a few days but couldn't handle the insomnia so switched to bromocriptine, which I stayed on for about a week until I couldn't handle the gastroparesis. Whilst on these meds one day early on I felt good, more talkative and was running hot (metabolism). However, all the other days I felt more depressed and this continued for a few weeks after stopping the meds.

I briefly tried lisuride a few weeks ago. I had one day where I felt good and warm etc. Then that went away and the gastroparesis set in. This time I used it transdermally in hopes to avoid a concentrated dose in the stomach but it didnt seem to make much difference.

Any experience with something to fix the digestive problem? I'm trying to research what things can trigger the sphincters on the top and bottom of the stomach. Still nothing for now.

 

[SB4]

Any experience with something to fix the digestive problem? I'm trying to research what things can trigger the sphincters on the top and bottom of the stomach. Still nothing for now.

Well you could try increasing the acidity of your stomach with certain digestive enzymes / maybe even acidic drinks like coke?

I have read that your stomach needs to atain a low enough PH for the sphincter to close.

For me my gastroparesis is related to my dysautonomia. I have had little success treating it but thankfully it is a mild case.

But I have had to stop dopamine agonists twice now because of the gastroparesis increase.

 

[jakeiscake]

Yeah I’m aware that some (mainly one person that I can identify, to be honest) seem to experience a positive “rebound,” I personally haven’t experienced that. I personally don’t feel acutely bad on cypro and then feel better later, I feel better as soon as I start taking it. Now if I take it for an extended amount of time I have noticed a dip in mood, possibly due to D receptor antagonism. But that’s a separate topic.

what I’m asking here is: has anyone experienced a NEGATIVE rebound/withdrawal to cypro. If cypro antagonizes 5HT receptors it stands to reason it would upregulate them. This in turn might lead to a massive spike in serotonin upon discontinuation.

I’m wondering if others have experienced a phenomenon like this

Hey guys,

My first post here but long time admirer of the forum, and have a lot of respect for Haidut.

CalmAmygdala (love the username), I have found recently through delving into serotonin research that both 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors are paradoxically downregulated by long term use of antagonists. Here is a quote from the study I found:

"Chronic treatment with 5-HT 2 receptor agonists or antagonists resulted in a paradoxical downregulation at the 5-HT 2A and 5-HT 2C receptors" (Barker and Sanders-Bush, 1993;Newton and Elliott, 1997;Pranzatelli et al., 1993;Serretti et al., 2004;Van Oekelen et al., 2003).

So to answer your question, Cypro and Metergoline, but not Lisuride, will downregulate two of the key mediators of serotonin function - being 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C. However, one may experience 5-HT2B upregulation after discontinuing Cypro. However, if you were taking either Metergoline or Lisuride when withdrawing from Cypro, you should not have rebound from 5-HT2B as it will already be antagonized.

Hope I helped man.

 

[Zoltanman]

Any experience with something to fix the digestive problem? I'm trying to research what things can trigger the sphincters on the top and bottom of the stomach. Still nothing for now.

Hi there, from previous research I found out that bile concentration has effects on sphincter closing. ie: bile not strong enough, no closure or less than optimal closure. It's not just acid needed, although the sphincters do have acid receptors as well. Maybe look at bile building blocks like bitter herbs (andrographis is my favourite with bitter melon second) and taurine levels in diet or supplementation. Maybe even TUDCA?

 

[Epik]

Hi there, from previous research I found out that bile concentration has effects on sphincter closing. ie: bile not strong enough, no closure or less than optimal closure. It's not just acid needed, although the sphincters do have acid receptors as well. Maybe look at bile building blocks like bitter herbs (andrographis is my favourite with bitter melon second) and taurine levels in diet or supplementation. Maybe even TUDCA?

Mmm, I do have bile issues I've been working on. After I fix it I'll definitely give it a try, it definitely seems plausible. Thanks!

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

This reminds me very much of the effects of low-dose LSD. I have a feeling the best way to take Lisuride or Metergoline or 10 mg of Pepcid or any anti-serotonin drug would be the same as the best way to take LSD -- in low doses and sporadically.

With LSD it fast becomes clear that you don't want to take it every day, even when microdosing. You don't feel as well after the third day of taking it every day as you do after a single dose. It's like it starts to give you the problems you're taking it to solve. For example, after three days in a row of microdosing LSD, I got a headache and felt depression and anxiety. I didn't feel that after a single dose.

When I talked to my husband and friends about it who have a lot of experience with LSD, they all asked me why I had taken it three days in a row, like it was obvious that no one should do that ever. They were in the Haight-Ashbury in 1967 and had never used LSD in large or small doses even two days in a row.

And there's no need to take it every day because the positive effects don't wear off.

I'd use a low dose of one of these drugs maybe once or twice a week AT MOST until you notice you've gotten the effect you want and then take it again only when you've had a bad day and feel like you could use a recharge. And give yourself time to notice the positive effects, because if you're doing it right, they're subtle. Just as Mephisto said, you may not even notice what it's done for you until later, when you're in some situation that used to give you trouble and realize you've changed.

You’re right. Usual suggestion for Lsd microdosing is 1 day on and two days off.

 

[Waynish]

You’re right. Usual suggestion for Lsd microdosing is 1 day on and two days off.

Microdosing LSD is lame. If you've ever broken through on it before, then all you get from microdosing is a tease - a distracting welling of energy that follows the same 7-10 hour curve of a trip but without the completeness. Lisuride should totally replace microdosing LSD - one drop is more than sufficient.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Microdosing LSD is lame. If you've ever broken through on it before, then all you get from microdosing is a tease - a distracting welling of energy that follows the same 7-10 hour curve of a trip but without the completeness. Lisuride should totally replace microdosing LSD - one drop is more than sufficient.

True! My point of doing Lsd is for the afterglow effect and to break the cycle of learned helplesness and depression - at least that’s my idea. I liked the higher doses, but I tried it only once - the very first time, like 5 years ago. What would be your suggestion to alleviate the issues I mentioned? My first dose was around 125-150 ug. I’m open to try it again. I’ve tried Lisuride numerous times and although it was similar to acid in some ways, it was not nearly as potent.

 

[Waynish]

True! My point of doing Lsd is for the afterglow effect and to break the cycle of learned helplesness and depression - at least that’s my idea. I liked the higher doses, but I tried it only once - the very first time, like 5 years ago. What would be your suggestion to alleviate the issues I mentioned? My first dose was around 125-150 ug. I’m open to try it again. I’ve tried Lisuride numerous times and although it was similar to acid in some ways, it was not nearly as potent.

For learned helplessness I would try to figure out what motivates you the most and cut as much out of life as possible - especially reliance on substances to "help with learned helplessness..." See why needing help for helplessness could be an issue? It should be viewed more like a reward or sprinkles on the cake. I would recommend only doing it with other people in nature, not alone.

 

[Lokzo]

I’m assuming Metergoline can at least mimic some of the effects of Cyproheptadine acutely. Looking forward to trialling it.

 

[metamorph]

It would be great to hear more on peoples experience with metergoline vs lisuride. Cypro seems to be too much for me in the drowsiness department. Even if I use it before bed it stays with me the next day. The rebound effect is nice though.

 

[MadnessofMemory]

It would be great to hear more on peoples experience with metergoline vs lisuride. Cypro seems to be too much for me in the drowsiness department. Even if I use it before bed it stays with me the next day. The rebound effect is nice though.

Lisuride was beneficial for my libido, but it makes me constipated every single time.