Liquid Calories VS Solid Calories - Doesnt it matter?

[yoshiesque]

Everytime I drink a glass of orange juice, I can only be satisfied for 15-30 minutes. Where as if I eat two oranges, I am satisfied for an hour or so. I have always believed that liquid calories provide far too many calories for the body and the body cant use it all, so some is stored as fat. How can you keep full for long?

For example, if i eat 300-400calories of some food, lets say some lamb with fruit, it should satisfy me for 3-4 hours. If however I eat a 300-400 calorie liquid like milk with sugar, I will still get hungry again in an hour.

So how are people here drinking liquids and feeling satisfied? Shouldnt it be used (and stored to fat) relatively quickly? I thought the body can only use so much energy at any point in time, then the rest is converted to fat. Is there something that a higher metabolism does differently to deal with liquids?

 

[Mittir]

You are right about higher metabolism causing caloric intake to be used differently.
Several years ago i could barely drink a cup of any fluid without feeling uncomfortable.
Now, i can drink 2-3 quarts of milk and juice daily and not feeling any kind of discomfort.
I used to stop drinking water and fluid after sunset, otherwise i had to wake up in the
middle of the night to use bathroom. Now i drink at least 1 quart of milk and juice
within 2-3 hours before bed and i do not have to wake up. I think using red light
helps to evaporate the excess fluid. Raising metabolism and temperature also increase
evaporation through skin.

I understand that sugar from juice is absorbed within half to 1 hour of eating
and that should keep blood sugar steady for 2 hours unless there is a big surge
of blood sugar. I usually feel high blood sugar from a cup orange juice or other
juices with 50/50 glucose fructose, but that does not happen with apple juice,
which has higher amount of fructose. I still need to eat some protein with
apple juice to feel full for at least 2 hours. Your 1 hour hunger seems to stem from
high blood sugar rise and consequently high insulin causing low blood sugar.
that usually takes 2 hours. Fat and fiber both slows down digestion and absorption
of sugar. That explains your comfort with whole orange. Protein also is digested at
lower rate.With good liver glycogen storage one should be able to sustain for at least 4-5 hours.
Edit: Higher metabolism also means one is able to burn glucose more efficiently, so
most of the carb will be burned instead of stored as fat.
Edit2: Adding some salt to fluid can help with lowering blood sugar.

 

[mt_dreams]

It seems that your stomach does not like being empty.
Have you tried sipping on these drinks? For me, a glass of milk usually contains b/w 200 & 250 calories, and I usually sip it over a 60 min period. If I drink it all at once I will be hungry in an hour, if I sip it, I am not hungry after an hour.

Solid food works best when I know I wont be able to eat or drink anything for a couple of hours. If I have control over things, taking in the calories with small amounts of liquid work best.

 

[RPDiciple]

Also liquid does not make you as satisfied as solid food. Chewing process etc etc also has a role in digestion

 

[mt_dreams]

Also liquid does not make you as satisfied as solid food. Chewing process etc etc also has a role in digestion

I guess this is where the old wise notion of drinking your food & chewing your beverage come into play.

 

[pboy]

it doesn't matter If its liquid or 'solid' its just about tonicity and nutrient adequacy. Eating oranges...things with large stringy fibers like that actually ruin your appetite, because they irritate and/or block the pyloric sphincter in the stomach...so you're probably hungry energy wise you just don't have appetite when you eat the oranges, the juice is a more accurate picture

another thing it could be is that OJ is hypotonic, which will lead to low blood sugar via dilution not because you don't have enough sugar, and maybe the fiber in the food oranges is soaking some of the water, toning it out, making the juice more isotonic, but that's not a good route to rely on, too shaky and unpredictable

 

[RPDiciple]

Im not sure about the hypotonic thing. Do you measure that by sodium content?

 

[jyb]

Also liquid does not make you as satisfied as solid food. Chewing process etc etc also has a role in digestion

Unless what you're drinking actually has good calorie content. Take double cream for example, I feel satisfied after only a cup.

 

[narouz]

it doesn't matter If its liquid or 'solid' its just about tonicity and nutrient adequacy. Eating oranges...things with large stringy fibers like that actually ruin your appetite, because they irritate and/or block the pyloric sphincter in the stomach...so you're probably hungry energy wise you just don't have appetite when you eat the oranges, the juice is a more accurate picture

another thing it could be is that OJ is hypotonic, which will lead to low blood sugar via dilution not because you don't have enough sugar, and maybe the fiber in the food oranges is soaking some of the water, toning it out, making the juice more isotonic, but that's not a good route to rely on, too shaky and unpredictable

What do you eat in the way of fruits, fruit juices, pboy?

 

[yoshiesque]

I usually feel high blood sugar from a cup orange juice or other
juices with 50/50 glucose fructose, but that does not happen with apple juice,
which has higher amount of fructose. I still need to eat some protein with
apple juice to feel full for at least 2 hours. Your 1 hour hunger seems to stem from
high blood sugar rise and consequently high insulin causing low blood sugar.
that usually takes 2 hours.

How do I know if i get a high blood sugar rise? I mean the only time ive kinda felt that is when I have eaten out and consumed loads of pasta, then feel a sugar crashed based on symptoms of intense fatigue.

BUT otherwise, i have no idea if i have a high blood sugar rise. I mean I could drink 1L orange juice straight and feel fine.

 

[jyb]

I usually feel high blood sugar from a cup orange juice or other
juices with 50/50 glucose fructose, but that does not happen with apple juice,
which has higher amount of fructose. I still need to eat some protein with
apple juice to feel full for at least 2 hours. Your 1 hour hunger seems to stem from
high blood sugar rise and consequently high insulin causing low blood sugar.
that usually takes 2 hours.

How do I know if i get a high blood sugar rise? I mean the only time ive kinda felt that is when I have eaten out and consumed loads of pasta, then feel a sugar crashed based on symptoms of intense fatigue.

BUT otherwise, i have no idea if i have a high blood sugar rise. I mean I could drink 1L orange juice straight and feel fine.

You can buy glucose tests at the convenience store and test your glucose every say 30 mins after your pasta meal to watch it sky-rocket then plummet. These are used by diabetes who need insulin injections if they ate glucose rich meals, as the sky-high post-carb rich meal blood glucose is considered toxic (not really by Ray, though) and need insulin to reduce it (carefully so it doesn't go too low).

Fructose might not elevate general circulation glucose post-meal as it goes to the liver, although it will reach high concentrations in the portal vein before it reaches the liver (and there seems to be leaks into the serum so you might see a multifold fructose increase).

 

[yoshiesque]

These are used by diabetes who need insulin injections if they ate glucose rich meals, as the sky-high post-carb rich meal blood glucose is considered toxic (not really by Ray, though) and need insulin to reduce it (carefully so it doesn't go too low).

Are you sure RP does not consider high blood glucose to be bad? Because in previous posts a year ago people were saying that I should eat just enough sugar but not too much where there is that spike?

 

[jyb]

These are used by diabetes who need insulin injections if they ate glucose rich meals, as the sky-high post-carb rich meal blood glucose is considered toxic (not really by Ray, though) and need insulin to reduce it (carefully so it doesn't go too low).

Are you sure RP does not consider high blood glucose to be bad? Because in previous posts a year ago people were saying that I should eat just enough sugar but not too much where there is that spike?

Read his article on glucose to get an idea. For him constant high blood glucose is a symptom of a problem indeed, however I have never read him discuss toxic effect of high blood glucose itself nor define an acceptable threshold so this contrasts with some other researchers, although he writes fructose is good for these issues (so, fruit sugar over starch). You always get a temporary spike from eating glucose, however whether it is within a certain range or huge depends on how much you ate in that meal.

 

[Mittir]

I usually feel high blood sugar from a cup orange juice or other
juices with 50/50 glucose fructose, but that does not happen with apple juice,
which has higher amount of fructose. I still need to eat some protein with
apple juice to feel full for at least 2 hours. Your 1 hour hunger seems to stem from
high blood sugar rise and consequently high insulin causing low blood sugar.
that usually takes 2 hours.

How do I know if i get a high blood sugar rise? I mean the only time ive kinda felt that is when I have eaten out and consumed loads of pasta, then feel a sugar crashed based on symptoms of intense fatigue.

BUT otherwise, i have no idea if i have a high blood sugar rise. I mean I could drink 1L orange juice straight and feel fine.

I have tried using glucose meter to measure blood sugar response to different composition of foods.
But, it seems too much work. I just go by how i feel. I feel much better if i add some cheese or meat
with a glass of apple juice than just drinking AJ. I feel my best when i drink a cup of milk with 1-2 tbs of
sugar and 1 tsp of coffee than i do with just milk. I use 2 percent milk. Adding a pinch salt to AJ makes
a big difference for me.

RP recommends a range of blood sugar, IIRC it is between 70 to 120. One can have high blood sugar
from cortisol after a night of food deprivation and can have high blood glucose immediately after
eating. In case of cortisol body is keeping the blood sugar up by lowering it's use by cells.
HIgh blood sugar after eating is different. Ideally blood sugar should be normal after 2 hours of eating.
High glycemic foods like rice, bread and other starchy foods can cause high blood sugar by increasing
insulin and then higher cortisol release. High insulin promotes in crease in Cortisol .

Another interesting thing i have noticed that if i drink a cup of AJ after waking up i feel bad
very quickly. I believe this results from sugar in AJ lowering stress hormones but not enough to
give steady blood sugar. If i drink milk coffee with 2 tbs of sugar i am all fine.

 

[yoshiesque]

when you say 2tbs sugar with milk, do you really mean 2xtablespoon? 1x Tablespoon is approximately 15g of sugar. So 2x that is 30g of sugar. That is ALOT of sugar. Has your metabolism improved to that point such that you can handle it, or did you always have that much? Also, what was your metabolism like before and now? How many calories i mean?

I am currently around 1500-1800 calories, if I go over (which i am) i gain weight.

 

[Mittir]

when you say 2tbs sugar with milk, do you really mean 2xtablespoon? 1x Tablespoon is approximately 15g of sugar. So 2x that is 30g of sugar. That is ALOT of sugar. Has your metabolism improved to that point such that you can handle it, or did you always have that much? Also, what was your metabolism like before and now? How many calories i mean?

I am currently around 1500-1800 calories, if I go over (which i am) i gain weight.

I always had a lot of sugar with coffee before starting peat. I am having 2 tbs= 30 grams of sugar
per cup of milk with 3-4 grams of instant coffee. I have to have this milk coffee before bed and after
waking up. Other times i add sugar just to keep my caloric intake high. I eat some starch for lunch
and i gain weight if i increase starch intake or eat starch twice a day. I usually lose about 7 lbs if i
completely remove starch. Calcium intake plays a big role in weight loss. I have lost about 13% of my
body weight since starting peat. I never counted calories and now i have at least 2300 calories from
4-6 cups of juice, 5-6 cups of sugared milk coffee, 1 oz liver, some cheese or meat, 1-2 cups of rice,
coconut oil. I also eat a lot of home cooked snacks. My caloric intake is between 2300-3000.
I try not to force myself to eat if i do not have appetite. When i do not feel like eating much,
i would eat less for few days.

 

[yoshiesque]

But wasnt your metabolism initially poor, meaning that 30g sugar would be too much? If i did that, I would definitely gain a lot of weight, which is obviously not good. A lot of my weight gain (10kg) is attributed to drinking lots of milk with sugar, or coffee with honey.

Also, you said earlier that taking salt with fluids will help with lowering blood sugar. Can I use baking soda instead of salt? I really like the taste of baking soda and OJ, its like tasting Fanta.

 

[Mittir]

But wasnt your metabolism initially poor, meaning that 30g sugar would be too much? If i did that, I would definitely gain a lot of weight, which is obviously not good. A lot of my weight gain (10kg) is attributed to drinking lots of milk with sugar, or coffee with honey.

Also, you said earlier that taking salt with fluids will help with lowering blood sugar. Can I use baking soda instead of salt? I really like the taste of baking soda and OJ, its like tasting Fanta.

It is the sodium in salt that helps with blood sugar, so salt or baking soda both are fine.
Chloride in salt can improve hydrochloric acid production if one is low in chloride intake.
In the beginning i had problem with baking soda, it can increase urination and loss
of electrolytes. I was not feeling good after increasing baking soda. Now i do not have
problem with baking soda, i believe it is increased intake of alkaline minerals and better
thyroid function.

I was lean before i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism, i believe it happened due to
a lot of x-rays i did for dental work. I gained about 40 lbs over 4-5 years period. I lost
about 20 lbs when i cut out cola intake. I used to drink 4-5 cups of cola a day.
It convinced me that sugar was the cause of weight gain. I lost another 23 lbs after
dropping starch and replacing it with sugar on top of all the RP recommendations.
I did not start losing weight until i increased sugar intake. For me ,starch is root cause of
weight gain.

30 grams of sugar in a cup of milk with 4 grams of instant coffee has a good amount of
potassium, which helps with metabolising sugar. 9 grams of protein makes a big difference too.
I do not feel too good if i do not add the coffee. This led me to believe caffeine and potassium
in coffee improves glucose metabolism. Sugar should be accompanied with potassium,
magnesium, fat, protein to be helpful. I get sugar crash if i drink coke without any food.
You might not need this much sugar. In theory, if every thing else is constant
then substituting starch with equal amount of sugar will increase metabolism and weight loss.

 

[RPDiciple]

Mittir: You said you dropped starch and replaced it with sugar and it caused weight loss. Was the calorie intake the same? or did also the calorie intake drop when you dropped starch?

 

[Mittir]

Mittir: You said you dropped starch and replaced it with sugar and it caused weight loss. Was the calorie intake the same? or did also the calorie intake drop when you dropped starch?

When i dropped starch i did not count calories. I always ate a lot of food, eating all the time.
Now i have a very clear idea about my caloric intake. If i add 1 cup of rice at dinner instead of
milked sugar, now i eat 1-2 cup of rice for lunch, i will add 7 lbs in about 2-3 weeks.
If i completely drop starch and eat only sugar, caloric intake between 2500-3000, i will lose another 7 lbs. Things seems to happen in multiple of 7 lb . If i lowered my calcium intake for few weeks i gain 7 lbs.