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Lipedema Aka Lipoedema On Legs

Discussion in 'Weight' started by Greenie, May 26, 2016.

  1. Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    hi all!

    Starting a post here about my Lipedema and how I'm treating. I believe I have stage 1 Lipedema on my thighs, knees, and calves. No matter how much I have starved, dieted, exercised in the past, I have this fat accumulation on my legs that doesn't budge. I have seen a specialist and had a consultation for liposuction (supposedly the only real cure) on the areas. I'm going to try and improve it on my own through boosting metabolism and topicals (mitolipin and solban @haidut ) before I turn to lipo as a last resort. It's a progressive disease according to what I've read but I'm thinking it could be related to metabolism. I welcome any advice or feedback! Thanks guys
     
  2. unexamined_whimsy

    unexamined_whimsy Member

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    Speaking as a guy whose struggled with water retention around my thighs I can attest that it's almost certainly due to an excess of oestrogen. A fatty liver is often responsible for an incomplete detoxification of oestrogen which then ends up recirculating in the body. Another perhaps related cause is high adrenaline that might lead to the shunting of the androgens into oestrogen. Things that get the liver moving such as the B vitamins especially niacinamide, vitamin K2 and caffeine are worth experimenting with. These substances also improve the utilization of sugar that's often lacking when oestrogen is elevated.
     
  3. OP
    Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    Thanks for this!! I'm taking k2 and have been for a while now. Using a few drops of Kuinone daily topically. Maybe I could go up to a few drops 3x a day. I'm using solban topically every morning so that's some niacinimide and caffeine right there. Also I usually drink a couple caffeinated beverages daily. I'm also using Energin on and off. Usually only 10 drops daily. Could try increasing that but supplementing with lots of biotin makes me nervous- can lead to acne breakouts so i have to be careful. I'm an actor on commercials and tv/film so having clear skin is super important. Also having slimmer, toned looking legs is important. :)

    I'm thinking getting more protein would only be beneficial to detoxing the estrogens. I usually fall between 50 and 70 grams a day. Sometimes less :/
     
  4. OP
    Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    Best way to lower adrenaline is steady supply of carbs through the day, right?
     
  5. unexamined_whimsy

    unexamined_whimsy Member

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    About 100 gm of good quality protein (eggs, bone broth) in the absence of PUFA is important for good liver function. I wouldn't overdo the K2, reasonable doses of Estroban should suffice. It takes a few weeks for the liver to shed its fat, so you need to be patient.

    I found that relatively high doses of niacinamide were required to nearly completely rid me of edema. See my thread 'niacinamide and water retention' for details. I would have all my carbs as simple sugars, preferably easily digestible ripe fruit.

    Gut irritation easily provokes water retention so avoiding irritating food is also important.
     
  6. unexamined_whimsy

    unexamined_whimsy Member

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    Yes, especially ripe fruit. Niacinamide also seems to help.
     
  7. tara

    tara Member

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    Hi Greenie,
    Couldn't tell from your post - are you talking about exceptionally large/possibly pathological fat accumulation on legs, or normal fat like most people have that just doesn't fit into fashion/modelling for telly standards?

    I don't know the answer to your question, but if it is the former, I guess I'd be starting by monitoring how the base metabolism is running - body temps and resting heartrate and other indicators of thyroid function, including any thyroid lab tests you happen to have had. Since derangement in lots of systems can arise if this is out of whack. And then I'd probably check against a list of symptoms of estrogen dominance to see if that seems a match, and if so, consider progesterone supplementation.

    If it's the latter, I'm more interested in getting the industry to change. But you could still check on metabolism.

    It's possible there is a link, since starving, (restrictive) dieting and over-exercise can contribute to the body improving it's efficiency at storing fat.
     
  8. OP
    Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    It's stage 1 Lipedema (Google for images) so it's not extremely large accumulation yet but is progressive according to what I've read and what my doctor said. I would like to reverse it but would be okay with just stalling the fat accumulation where it is now. It's not normal. It's painful, swells often, bruises easily.

    I don't have too many questions. I'm just documenting things here in case others could use the info one day. I also would love for anyone knowledgable on the subject to chime in. :) or anyone who has experience with edema, Lipedema, or even lymphedema.

    I've been eating freely of dairy protein, fruits, juices, shellfish, in the correct ratios for myself, avoiding pufa, taking liver/vitamin a, etc for nearly two years now. I know what foods get me warmed up and heart rate at a nice pace. I did monitoring on that last year. :). I'll check in on temps/pulse again to make sure I'm still on track. Thanks for your suggestions, @tara

    I've tried progest e and progestene in the past but I stopped because it took so so so much of it to get to a dose where i felt anything. So I know estrogen has got to be an issue.
     
  9. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I don't know anything about the condition, except I "get the feeling" it's estrogen-related. So anything you can do to bring that into balance should at least help. And I know from experience that one can lose weight, get muscles, eating well, and doing other things for metabolism and yet still not have the estrogen issue under control. I'm still looking for results on that myself. I think it comes down to the body (specifically the liver) not being able to get rid of estrogen. It gets "backed up" and wreaks havoc. I've done many things suggested on the forum to help my liver. And while there are improvements, no full relief yet. The hormone problem in my case started early on in my life, before my liver could have had any problems with detoxing. I've always had the tendencies to various (not always the same) symptoms of ed. So something got the whole thing off kilter early on, but I'm sure getting my liver as healthy as possible at this point wouldn't hurt. I still have hope it can be reversed or at least the symptoms managed to prevent symptoms as well as future health problems.
     
  10. tara

    tara Member

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    Doesn't sound like any fun. Hope you can figure out sth that helps.
     
  11. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    @Greenie, do you know what your blood pressure is like?
     
  12. OP
    Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    Thank you @tara !
     
  13. OP
    Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    It's always normal or good when I go to the doc. Wish I could tell you exactly what it was
     
  14. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Hi Greenie,
    I've got edema in my lower legs. First experience of edema, ever, was in my ankles after a long plane ride about 5 years ago. Then, no sign of it for a couple of years. But for the past 3 years, about, it's shown up in my lower legs/calves. I see it as a warning sign.

    The other day I found it was pitting edema. Today, it is not,

    In addition to all the estrogen/inflammatory lowering things, I'm trying dmso, the rose scented cream, topically, once a day, for two months. Started yesterday.

    Am upping my Progest-E dose. I'm not looking for an immediate response with it, but do it as part of my overall approach.

    Can't use much niacinamide since I get an adrenalin type response with over about 75 mg even with food.
    I'll be watching your progress.
     
  15. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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  16. OP
    Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    Hmm yeah every once in a while. But just seems like the average "stood up too quickly" feeling.
     
  17. OP
    Greenie

    Greenie Member

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    Yes let me know how things go with you too.
    Do you also have excess fatty tissue on your legs? And then that tissue swells on and off? Sorry to hear that it's pitting. Does it hurt? I bought some compression tights to start wearing when I exercise or walk a lot. Hopefully it will help.

    I haven't read about dmso being helpful. You're applying directly to the lower legs?


    I tried taking niacinimide after reading through "the niacinimide and water retention" thread. Just a small amount- around 3 times though out the day. Like licked the tip of my finger and stuck it in a container of the stuff. I felt off. Headachy and and fast heartbeat before falling asleep. I'm wondering if it lowers my blood sugar or something. I already use a good bit of solban every day topically. Which contains niacinimide.
     
  18. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Yes, applying it at ankles up to include knees. The rose scented one contains aloe which supposedly keeps the dmso from drying out the skin. Am doing it two times a day now.

    Also, I read a good Peat article that I found by searching edema. Working on increasing caffeine, salt, progesterone... Niacinamide... They look deflated some when I get up. Notice improvement past couple days.

    Yes, calves look fat as if more muscular, but I finally realized it wasn't muscle as the volume increased. No, it doesn't hurt.

    I had the same reaction to niacinamide. Today, I tried taking it with food midday. Had to take a nap.
     
  19. tara

    tara Member

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    It apparently hinders lipolysis, so yes, that can mean burning through the sugars faster and having blood sugar drop if one doesn't take in adequate fuel to support it.
     
  20. unexamined_whimsy

    unexamined_whimsy Member

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    I agree with @tara . In fact, the first few times I tried niacinamide without adequate simple carbohydrates, I felt extremely anxious and had the jitters as well. Accompanying it with some honey got rid of all that and I felt almost an immediate improvement in body tone.