Licorice Root - A Key Supplement In Hypothyroidism?

[kineticz]

I have tried licorice root and it seems to make my vision clearer and colours brighter. This is the same reaction as pregnenolone is reported to give, but licorice is not known to boost pregnenolone, at least directly. It also took some stiffness out of my shoulders and neck.

According to other forums, licorice prolongs cortisol's effects in the blood, and allows thyroid hormone to exert effects without the risk of cortisol and pregnenolone depletion.

It improves my mood within 30 minutes of ingestion.

Before I go into my theories, if you just wish to share any views and experiences specifically with licorice that would be wonderful.

I really think that if ACTH is depleted, mitochondria are not respiring well, pregnenolone can be low, but cortisol will rise through prolactin stimulation, which is NOT the same as a healthy cortisol profile and thyroid absorption. High progesterone is not necessarily good, such as in the case of hair, it might stop DHT balding, but it won't promote healthy hair renewal and growth. In my experience progesterone is also very stressful in excess.

What I have found is that through reducing serotonin, when I take T3 I get agitated and don't actually feel the need to take it at the moment, whereas before I started lowering serotonin, I would get a very temporary boost in energy and mood, due to the cortisol being produced by prolactin/serotonin and not the proper adrenal pathways via pregnenolone channeling. I would keep needing T3 in order to get through the day.

Hence I believe Peat and Roddy can take cortisol out of context. ACTH stimulates pregnenolone, this is fact. When pregnenolone is depleted, hypothyroidism and therefore TRH/TSH go up, inducing prolactin, and therefore adrenaline, fatty acids, and cortisol. Pregnenolone protects against excess cortisol, but excess pregnenolone downregulates ACTH, so it is not a solution to long term wellbeing. The tricky bit therefore is keeping ACTH and cortisol profile strong without undermining the negative feedback mechanisms via pregnenolone. Thyroid is notorious in this manner in that it activates pregnenolone conversion but it really is a case of is your body, receptors and genes really built for increased metabolism. A body has to be built for increased androgens in order to sustain higher metabolism, which mine isn't.

My point is, proper cortisol profile is good, because it reflects the flow of cholesterol into the mitochondria and out into adrenal enzymes for various processes, but hypothyroid cortisol (serotonin, prolactin) is bad, because it downregulates and depletes the ACTH mediated conversion of LDL to Preg, and therefore negates healthy cortisol activity in favour of catabolism. I believe a distinction needs to be made and many forums that argue each other are actually parts of the same puzzle and all pieces add to success and harmony within. It is typical for humans to claim contradiction when in fact hypocrisy is rife.

Licorice seems to promote the replenishment of the healthy adrenal response to increased metabolism and buffers stress. Prolonged cortisol means that pregnenolone has some respite, and pregnenolone reduces fatty acids and triglycerides, allowing better mitochondrial respiration, for a long term recovery.

 

[tara]

My personal experience, long time pre-Peat, was that licorice tea tasted great but tended to make me feel worse rather than better. I suspect I was malnourished in several respects at the time, though.

 

[answersfound]

You may find this interesting...

"Five Ways To Boost Cortisol and T3, While Bypassing Genetic Controls Overview:
Most males do best by boosting their cortisol mostly using licorice with an occasional top up using some HC. Most males do best by boosting their T3 using using T3, not T4.
Details:
The following methods are the only methods I will work with which reliably boost cortisol, because they bypass the genetic controls which limit our cortisol production:
1) Supplementation with HC (hydrocortisone).
2) Supplementation with licorice, which preserves cortisol by blocking the enzyme which breaks down cortisol.
3) Supplementation with Pregnenolone and T3 (the T3 is usually needed to kick start the cortisol- production-line when metabolic rate is very low)
4) Supplementation with Progesterone and T3 (the T3 is usually needed to kick start the cortisol- production-line when metabolic rate is very low)."

 

[kineticz]

You may find this interesting...

"Five Ways To Boost Cortisol and T3, While Bypassing Genetic Controls Overview:
Most males do best by boosting their cortisol mostly using licorice with an occasional top up using some HC. Most males do best by boosting their T3 using using T3, not T4.
Details:
The following methods are the only methods I will work with which reliably boost cortisol, because they bypass the genetic controls which limit our cortisol production:
1) Supplementation with HC (hydrocortisone).
2) Supplementation with licorice, which preserves cortisol by blocking the enzyme which breaks down cortisol.
3) Supplementation with Pregnenolone and T3 (the T3 is usually needed to kick start the cortisol- production-line when metabolic rate is very low)
4) Supplementation with Progesterone and T3 (the T3 is usually needed to kick start the cortisol- production-line when metabolic rate is very low)."

That's where I got the idea from :P

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

How's your gut, kineticz? It's used for gut inflammation sometimes, which is consistent with your 30m to health affects observation. Have you ever tried other commonly used gut-inflammation reducers like Quercetin and other flavonoids (despite the fact that Peat's refs say flavonoids can raise estrogen).

Do you ever have "gut-brain axis" related issues?

 

[kineticz]

How's your gut, kineticz? It's used for gut inflammation sometimes, which is consistent with your 30m to health affects observation. Have you ever tried other commonly used gut-inflammation reducers like Quercetin and other flavonoids (despite the fact that Peat's refs say flavonoids can raise estrogen).

Do you ever have "gut-brain axis" related issues?

I take lysine and that is said to reduce serotonin in the gut, and helps my mood.

I've taken quercetin before and it made my stools really sludgy (sorry had to be honest), does this mean anything?

 

[yoshiesque]

Could you please provide me with the supplement brand and name that you used?

 

[kineticz]

A few days in with licorice use and I'm finding it a great help before bed, in the morning and after exercise. It's definitely supporting the recovery process somewhat. If I start to feel hypo, I take 700mg licorice root and feel calmness again. This is why I said earlier that you can easily go cortisol deficient when attempting to boost metabolism, and prolactin will step in which falsely gives the impression that cortisol is raised. Licorice seems to help the good cortisol activity, perhaps by backfilling the pregnenolone pathways and enzymes. If you are not cortisol deficient, then licorice will probably downregulate ACTH and make you feel worse.

My current stack of:

Lysine 2g
Licorice root 700mg x 4 through day in-line with cortisol rhythm
Vitamin E 3 x 400iu

Is making life so much more manageable and positive.

yoshie, I use an ebay supplier if that is usefu to you I will provide the link. I'm in UK.

 

[answersfound]

Something also to keep in mind. This is from Lita Lee's website:

Thyroid Inhibitors and Toxin/Anti-thyroid Foods (cause inability to convert T4, the inactive thyroid hormone into T3, the active thyroid hormone or inadequate production of thyroid hormone)

Estrogens

* Human estrogens (estrone, estradiol and estriol) sometimes called bio-identical; birth control pills

* Synthetic estrogens (premarin).

* Herbal estrogens (black cohosh (Remifemin), sage, pennyroyal, red clover, licorice root, etc.)

* Estrogenic fruits (grapefruit, cranberry)

* Many drugs including estrogens are in purified tap water because there is no way to remove them.

 

[tara]

cranberry

Bother, that's my most effective counter to UTI risk. Is this verified?

 

[Peata]

cranberry

Bother, that's my most effective counter to UTI risk. Is this verified?

Have you tried ACV?

 

[tara]

Thanks for that idea Peata. I've never been keen on the taste of ACV (or any vinegar, or pickles or chutneys, etc). I suspect that's because I've been running too acid for many years. I guess I could give it a go next time I think I'm in risk zone, but probably I should check my UpH is mnot too acid first. How much would you use?

I did buy some d-mannose powder with my last shipment from purebulk, but haven't used it yet - so I've got that in reserve - several women seem to swear by it, and I think its at least one of the key active components in cranberries. But it was nice using cranberry juice, 'cos it tastes good and it's food, rather than just another supplement. :)

 

[Peata]

Thanks for that idea Peata. I've never been keen on the taste of ACV (or any vinegar, or pickles or chutneys, etc). I suspect that's because I've been running too acid for many years. I guess I could give it a go next time I think I'm in risk zone, but probably I should check my UpH is mnot too acid first. How much would you use?

I did buy some d-mannose powder with my last shipment from purebulk, but haven't used it yet - so I've got that in reserve - several women seem to swear by it, and I think its at least one of the key active components in cranberries. But it was nice using cranberry juice, 'cos it tastes good and it's food, rather than just another supplement. :)

Do you have to take it all the time or just if you feel a UTI coming on?

 

[Peata]

It was last summer when I used it when I felt I was getting a UTI from too much citric acid in the bath (making fizzy water along with baking soda). I wish I could remember the dose, but probably did what they advised on the earth clinic website.

 

[tara]

Do you have to take it all the time or just if you feel a UTI coming on?

Lately I've not had to use it very often. But I've had extended times when I've drunk the cranberry juice morning and night for more days than not. Depends on what else is going on.

 

[Peata]

Do you have to take it all the time or just if you feel a UTI coming on?

Lately I've not had to use it very often. But I've had extended times when I've drunk the cranberry juice morning and night for more days than not. Depends on what else is going on.

I noticed there were posts before where haidut was talking about how cranberry is an iron chelator, which is a good thing. Maybe alternate acv or lemon juice for every other glass of the cranberry? Could add some sugar to the acv or lemon to make it more like apple cider or lemonade.

 

[answersfound]

Do you have to take it all the time or just if you feel a UTI coming on?

Lately I've not had to use it very often. But I've had extended times when I've drunk the cranberry juice morning and night for more days than not. Depends on what else is going on.

I noticed there were posts before where haidut was talking about how cranberry is an iron chelator, which is a good thing. Maybe alternate acv or lemon juice for every other glass of the cranberry? Could add some sugar to the acv or lemon to make it more like apple cider or lemonade.

I wouldn't worry about the cranberry and grapefruit being estrogenic. ITs helping you and these things are fruits, not PUFAs or something seriously problematic.

 

[sweetpeat]

I tried licorice root about a year or so ago. It caused insomnia no matter what time of day I took it. But I think now that I know more, I actually had high cortisol because of the Cushingoid-like weight gain I put on and my real issue was improper thyroid dosing. This was all before discovering Peat.

Be sure to monitor your blood pressure. Licorice root is known to raise it. This could be a good thing if you tend to have low blood pressure, as many people with low cortisol do. I had a couple of scary episodes with it and finally decided to drop it. I'm glad you're having good results with it.

 

[kineticz]

Something also to keep in mind. This is from Lita Lee's website:

Thyroid Inhibitors and Toxin/Anti-thyroid Foods (cause inability to convert T4, the inactive thyroid hormone into T3, the active thyroid hormone or inadequate production of thyroid hormone)

Estrogens

* Human estrogens (estrone, estradiol and estriol) sometimes called bio-identical; birth control pills

* Synthetic estrogens (premarin).

* Herbal estrogens (black cohosh (Remifemin), sage, pennyroyal, red clover, licorice root, etc.)

* Estrogenic fruits (grapefruit, cranberry)

* Many drugs including estrogens are in purified tap water because there is no way to remove them.

Something I am very certain of is that some estradiol is essential to wellbeing. My blood results say my E2 is less than 10, and that is an insensitive female reading. Mens are always lower in reality than what a female reading says. So my E2 a few months ago was probably around 0. So in my view even if licorice is estrogenic, it is welcome.

I have high LH and it is making dealing with supporting the adrenals problematic, as it diverts deficient cholesterol and pregnenolone away and into the testes, but with my high prolactin, testosterone cannot be made. It's been dreadful but I'm improving. With high LH, ACTH cannot get a share of the LDL, so it ends up getting suffocated by adrenaline-induced fatty acids.

Estrogen will lower LH and redirect resources to where it is crucial in the first instance. Lowering LH and increasing estrogen will lower my progesterone which is shown to attenuate cortisol negative feedback on ACTH, further depleting my pregnenolone. I'm in a weird screwed up situation where, due to pregnenolone use and aromatase blockers, my progesterone is relatively high but so is my prolactin. Peat says prolactin antagonises progesterone.

I believe estrogen, at least E2, in my situation, helps me to manage my low genetic metabolism. It is also shown to be important for sex drive, and sperm maturation.

Yes, I accept, Peat is right about prostaglandins being inflammatory, and estrogens reducing mitochondria respiration, but prolactin, cortisol and estrogen are not all intrisically linked. Any one can be low or high without the other's being the same.

From my blood tests and my closeness with my body, you can become cortisol deficient due to pregnenolone exhaustion, which raises TRH, which raises prolactin, which raises your cortisol but not in the way that efficient pregnenolone provides when boosting metabolic rate.

Put it in another way, when my E2 was 36, my prolactin was 1/3rd of what it was when my E2 was 0, my theory for this is that the estrogen was allowing the adrenals to get a greater share of pregnenolone than the testes. My LH was much reduced on the blood test with higher estrogen. With E2 at 0, exhausted adrenal respiration raised TRH as thyroid was not being able to get into cells. My point here is that increased E2 actually made my thyroid more effective and manageable (my TSH was only 1.25 with higher E2, it shot up to 3.0 when my E2 went down).

Estrogen binds thyroid and allows adrenal mitochondria/pregnenolone some specific recovery time in my view. At least in my case.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

How's your gut, kineticz? It's used for gut inflammation sometimes, which is consistent with your 30m to health affects observation. Have you ever tried other commonly used gut-inflammation reducers like Quercetin and other flavonoids (despite the fact that Peat's refs say flavonoids can raise estrogen).

Do you ever have "gut-brain axis" related issues?

I take lysine and that is said to reduce serotonin in the gut, and helps my mood.

I've taken quercetin before and it made my stools really sludgy (sorry had to be honest), does this mean anything?

Well you said that licorice enhanced your mood too - I'm asking if quercetin or other supplements on the (not-so-peat) gut-repair list have. You didn't feel any difference when your stool was "sludgy"? This could be you expelling old fecal mater from the gut being less inflamed. I don't know if quercetin could otherwise change the color of the stool.