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Levothyroxine??

Discussion in 'T4' started by MightyFall, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. MightyFall

    MightyFall Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    UK
    Please read my posts here ---> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4054

    I only started taking Levothyroxine today. 25mcg. Consumed it with breakfast, and apparently that was a bad move. Should have taken it at least 1-2 hours before breakfast on an empty stomach.

    I immediately experienced severe symptoms - weakness in left limbs, shortness of breath, intense brain fog, rapid heartbeat.

    These symptoms subsided later in the day, but new ones appeared. Mood and energy fluctuations, stuttering, short attention span, slow responses etc.

    Is this temporary? Should I continue taking the recommended dosage?
     
  2. kiran

    kiran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Gender:
    Male
    Looks like the T4 is having anti-thyroid effects on you. Especially the brain fog.

    Can you get some T3 or tissue thyroid to compensate?

    Have you tried taking T4 at night?

    Women find it harder to convert T4 to T3.

    Do you get adequate selenium?
     
  3. OP
    MightyFall

    MightyFall Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    UK
    I have raw thyroid powdered capsules but the ingredients are - thyroid tissue, adrenal tissue, pituitary tissue, thymus tissue, spleen tissue and American Ginseng (?). I doubt my doctor would prescribe T3 since my T3 is pretty good (see my post for blood test results). I took capsules from this bottle a few months ago with very similar side affects. It lowered my libido, induced weakness in my left limbs and intensified my brain fog.

    I'm a male. I eat a lot of lamb and beef, so I'm assuming I'm not deficient in selenium.
     
  4. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    Selenium is not the only factor in conversion of T4 to T3.
    RP has mentioned that it is ok to experiment with T4 only
    and if it worsen the hypothyroid symptoms one should immediately
    add T3. RP recommends total T3 and T4 tests and Free T3 +T4 test often
    reflects Total T3 and T4, but not always and one need reverse T3 to
    interpret free T3. High T3 with Low T4 are usually found
    in healthy thyroid function. Low tryptophan diet can easily improve
    thyroid numbers, muscle meats are high in tryptophan. If gelatine does not
    cause digestion issue then bone broth and or gelatin powder can be large
    part of protein intake, up to 50 percent. I regularly use chicken neck soup now.
    I think 2 necks approximately give me 1 grain of dessicated thyroid.
    I could not find the exact number, it is my guess. I used to drink
    this soup two times a day and now i try to drink it 3-4 times day for
    even distribution of T3. Carrot salad or cooked bamboo shoot can
    improve thyroid number by lowering endotoxin and estrogen.
    Excess estrogen directly increases TSH and inhibit T4 to T3 conversion. Regular liver
    has been a magical food for me. PTH is also related to TSH,
    keeping PTH in check by good calcium to phosphorus ratio, vitamin D and K,
    niancinamide are very helpful. Thyroid supplement alone can't fix any problem
    without the support of nutritious diet.
     
  5. north

    north Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Interesting. Does cottage cheese have low tryptophan? What else besides gelatin could be used as a good (low tryp) protein source?
    If you go high on gelatin powder, wouldnt that make you loose out on minerals etc which are in meat?
    Dont have the time to cook oxtail that much :P

    Edit:
    I looked at different things in cronometer, and pretty much everything is high in tryptophan, cystine, or methionine, exept gelatin. Cottage cheese, cheese and milk is all high as well...
     
  6. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    Casein has some special properties, it is digested slowly and this is why it is helpful during
    bed time to supply energy for a longer period of time. RP has mentioned that
    casein has anti-stress and anti-inflammatory effects and holds down cortisol.
    Tryptophan content in cheese is much lower than milk and calcium in milk and cheese
    both increases conversion of tryptophan to niacin. B6 does the same thing.
    Besides, gelatin you can use glycine supplement to get some anti-inflammatory effect. Branched chained amino acid also has anti-serotonin property.
    You can make a big batch of broth ( beef, vegetable, fruits etc)
    for extra vitamin and minerals to compensate for lack of nutrient in gelatin powder.
    You do not need to cut down on meat either. Here is a quote from RP
     
  7. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    824
    In practical terms, it would be more prudent to wait until a weekday before thinking about using the T4 once more, when the doctor/provider who prescribed it could be reached promptly during the day. It is better to have ready access to someone who knows you already.

    If you are describing "focal" weakness of the left arm and leg that comes on quickly, that is a concerning and unusual neurological change. Major shortness of breath is also something to be careful about and get checked out.

    25 microgram of T4 is roughly one quarter of a grain, a very low amount of thyroid supplement. Respectfully, I do not know how these responses are arising. It is possible, for instance, that there is a "hunger" for thyroid, or a quick response to thyroid, and that your metabolism in the beginning is using nutrients very rapidly. I haves seen this happen even with "mild" supports like an Epsom salt bath.

    Better utilization of glucose by a quickly improved metabolism can result in short term "hypoglycemia". Having some orange juice or a quick source of fruit sugar nearby is one possible relieving measure. Having baking soda or something salty on standby is also good. Over the intermediate term, Mittir has mentioned numerous supportive factors.

    Thera are many other possibilities, including reaction to other ingredients in the pill/capsule, though these episodes seem to come on with different preparations. It could be that going even slower, with a lower amount, or divided amount in the beginning may be helpful, even though the starting amount is low.

    But if you are having strong, unexpected, and worrisome symptoms, it is better to have health care supervision, which is better available during business hours.
     
  8. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    In Armour one grain of dessicated thyroid has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3.
    If you consider T3 being 4 times more potent than T4 then it is equivalent to
    about 80 mcg of T4. RP did mentioned this to people when converting T3 only
    dose to mix of T4 and T3 dose. Our thyroid gland secretes 100 mcg T4 daily
    and 25 mcg is one fourth of daily production. This is a big dose for someone
    whose thyroid numbers are not too bad.
     
  9. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    824
    Point well taken. I wish to avoid deflecting from the primary question of the thread. 25 mcg is the smallest increment that Synthroid is dispensed in. "Thyroid equivalency" is a bit of a slippery slope, and in one version 25 mcg is regarded as corresponding to 1/4 of a grain. (http://wpthyroid.com/wp-content/uploads ... nChart.jpg) The intended emphasis was 25 mcg of levothyroxine is at the low end of thyroid pill size. Doctors and pharmacists seem to have little confidence in people's ability to split pills. If there is symptom difficulty at the small size of dispensing, perhaps extra care is needed.

    With any individual, the rate of absorption, utilization, and elimination will vary from the stated "pharmacokinetics". The increased heart rate mentioned certainly could reflect an augmented thyroid response, whether it is sensitivity in a depleted state, an addition to a near ample supply, or something else.

    If a substance gives abrupt focal neurological decline, caution is important.
     
  10. OP
    MightyFall

    MightyFall Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    UK
    Just wondering if it would be safe to stop taking the medication? I only took the recommended dose for two days and could not cope with the symptoms.

    My head felt heavy (can't describe this sensation).
    Bloating.
    Brain fog.
    The weakness in my limbs fluctuates throughout the day.
    Insomnia.
    Headaches.
     
  11. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    824
    Yes, it seems wiser to stop something when things are worse rather than better. If things are relieved by stopping, that is added information. If things persists, seek prompt followup from the prescriber.
     
  12. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    If you talk to your doctor he will probably lower the dose.
    They usually recommend 12.5 mcg of T4 to people who have bad reaction to
    typical starting dose of 25 mcg. I think chicken neck or fish head soup is a
    better option than taking 12.5 mcg of T4.
     
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