Lesson Learned: Dropping All Supplements Is Peat Approved

[Amazoniac]

It's becoming common for frustrated supplement (mis)users to condemn them, it's a cheap way to find peace of mind in the decision to discontinue them altogether with the belief that the solution is to rely solely on diet. It's rejecting one of the few aspects that have improved in nutrition: the possibility to obtain specific substances without having to deal with the unwanted rest.

People's malnutrition is usually not of dietary origin, if you compare the diet of a health-conscious person attempting to recover to someone that's not, it's likely that the former is more nourishing. It may be argued that the issue stems from poor choices not guided by intuition, yet we find that it gets worse when the afflicted person relaxes, whereas we know many people that do fine on diets that appear inadequate, indicating that targeting the diet is probably a bad idea, there's something else being draining that has to be addressed.

If this inefficiency is not taken care of with supplements, the consequence depends on whether the person is respecting cravings or not, but it will likely lead to overeating or forcing the metabolic rate to drop to conserve nutrients. The cravings start to degrade and the standards will decrease according to the degree of desperation to obtain what's missing. It's related to the recommendation to not buy your groceries when hungry. It's also moving towards binge-eating because you can expect stupid choices, the person might feel guilty about them once satiated and try to resist on the next times, initiating a problematic cycle. It may end up transfering the harmless attempt to get the situation under control with supplements to the harmful tricking of food selection, viewing foods as tools now that supplements have to be avoided.

Overeating and the questionable choices might create new problems with time. It's possible for the depletion to occurs faster than repletion in spite of what the person decides to eat, Raj's 'protective inhibition' will kick in and the effort in recovering from an imbalance is much greater without supplements. What could be solved within minutes may take days, in the meantime one disturbance creating another as well.

Extraordinary and specific needs are better addressed with supplementation. Requiring less supplements can serve as a sign that the condition is improving.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I like sensible supplementation because it frees me from having to worry if I'm getting enough nutrients in what I'm eating. Bright yellow piss tells some people that pennies are going down the drain, but it tells me the tanks are topped off and the body has everything it needs. Playing video games in which you can't mine enough resources are a real drag, and I think my body feels the same way.

And physical needs change as we age that won't be obvious until maybe it's too late. Gut absorption can decrease with age which reduces nutrient intake from foods. The thymus shrinks with age, which can be reduced and reversed with increased zinc intake. A number of pharmaceuticals deplete zinc. So for me it's not about achieving maximum feel-good or energy from supplements, but making sure my innate immune system is primed at all times by not running low on the essential molecules and elements it needs to function correctly.

 

[Wagner83]

@Amazoniac In a distant past you commented on the multiple benefits of a mix of niacinamide and, I may be wrong, vitamin C and potassium. What are some of the things you would suggest generally now, before one can experiment more and create a mix to better suit his needs ? I don't see many people having success with using supplements in the form of individual or a mix of nutrients. They improve short term and then not, like with most supplements for that matter.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac In a distant past you commented on the multiple benefits of a mix of niacinamide and, I may be wrong, vitamin C and potassium. What are some of the things you would suggest generally now, before one can experiment more and create a mix to better suit his needs ? I don't see many people having success with using supplements in the form of individual or a mix of nutrients. They improve short term and then not, like with most supplements for that matter.

I was sponsored by the Gerson industry back then.

The nutrients that are difficult to obtain or easily lost. Magnesium and the isolated B-vitamins are the basic kit that should be beneficial and safe for most people.

One approach with supplements is to attempt to negate a wasteful state, taking just enough to prevent secondary deficiencies that tend to develop while the cause is addressed through other means.

Another is to rely on overnutrition expecting that it's going to be corrective for the condition. This approach might call for adherence to the supplement maximalism movement because increasing only a few factors will induce deficiencies. No need to use them all regularly, but if it's intended to count on extra nutrition to fix a health issue, it's good to familiarize and have them around for rescuing purposes while sticking to the essentials and respecting the limiting one.

If you calculate a generous amount of daily use for a substance and multiply by some months, you'll possibly find that it's still in excess of the lowest option offered by bulk vendors. A good portion is likely to expire before consumption, so you can buy with someone.

Most of the purified nutrients available are cheap and would last a long time if their use was reasonable, it's not an expensive practice if done wisely. We know this isn't the case because the starting dose is what, 100x the physiological intake at once and in isolation? Something great is noticed, but it doesn't sustain for long, the person is forced to stop when it becomes unbearable, repeats this a few more times and eventually give up. Each stunt creating a different pattern of deficiencies and possibly deteriorating the person's condition, with every frustrated intervention being also a hit on hope.

It's not convenient, there are many things to try (occasional trips to a sunny location, light/heat therapy, varying exercises, crying, and so on), but I would avoid manipulation of diet because it tends to lead to unhealthy relationship with foods.

 

[Jon2547]

Funny thing about supplements is that we're all for the most part against excessive supplementation, right? I know I am for sure.

And every now and then I'll remove a couple from my regimen, only to add a new one, OR THREE.

 

[Lollipop2]

but I would avoid manipulation of diet because it tends to lead to unhealthy relationship with foods.

So true for myself. I have learned to eat fresh food and not even think about a certain “dietary method”. Other than cutting out most PUFA just eating homemade fresh food has made a vast improvement in my health.

 

[Amazoniac]

So true for myself. I have learned to eat fresh food and not even think about a certain “dietary method”. Other than cutting out most PUFA just eating homemade fresh food has made a vast improvement in my health.

If the person develops an inhealthy relationship with supplements, it's easy to back off or discontinue, can be done over the night, but the same doesn't apply to foods.

 

[Wagner83]

I was sponsored by the Gerson industry back then.

The nutrients that are difficult to obtain or easily lost. Magnesium and the isolated B-vitamins are the basic kit that should be beneficial and safe for most people.

One approach with supplements is to attempt to negate a wasteful state, taking just enough to prevent secondary deficiencies that tend to develop while the cause is addressed through other means.

Another is to rely on overnutrition expecting that it's going to be corrective for the condition. This approach might call for adherence to the supplement maximalism movement because increasing only a few factors will induce deficiencies. No need to use them all regularly, but if it's intended to count on extra nutrition to fix a health issue, it's good to familiarize and have them around for rescuing purposes while sticking to the essentials and respecting the limiting one.

If you calculate a generous amount of daily use for a substance and multiply by some months, you'll possibly find that it's still in excess of the lowest option offered by bulk vendors. A good portion is likely to expire before consumption, so you can buy with someone.

Most of the purified nutrients available are cheap and would last a long time if their use was reasonable, it's not an expensive practice if done wisely. We know this isn't the case because the starting dose is what, 100x the physiological intake at once and in isolation? Something great is noticed, but it doesn't sustain for long, the person is forced to stop when it becomes unbearable, repeats this a few more times and eventually give up. Each stunt creating a different pattern of deficiencies and possibly deteriorating the person's condition, with every frustrated intervention being also a hit on hope.

It's not convenient, there are many things to try (occasional trips to a sunny location, light/heat therapy, varying exercises, crying, and so on), but I would avoid manipulation of diet because it tends to lead to unhealthy relationship with foods.

Thanks for the thorough reply.

What do you think about supplemental potassium (citrate) ? Is it mostly safe and if so in what doses ? I may give a try to this approach with b vitamins. One or two drops of energin give me a nice boost but so far I get cold hands later on, so tweaking the ratio may be wise.

I'm surprised about your comment on diet. Perhaps you are referring to the 'pot of fresh cream with honey' meals or excluding all forms of vitamin A foods (or all starches etc..). At the moment I'm finding interesting benefits from limiting wheat and bread, as well as dairy, in particular milk and hard cheese, the latter which should be renamed food of death.

 

[S-VV]

It's becoming common for frustrated supplement (mis)users to condemn them, it's a cheap way to find peace of mind in the decision to discontinue them altogether with the belief that the solution is to rely solely on diet. It's rejecting one of the few aspects that have improved in nutrition: the possibility to obtain specific substances without having to deal with the unwanted rest.

People's malnutrition is usually not of dietary origin, if you compare the diet of a health-conscious person attempting to recover to someone that's not, it's likely that the former is more nourishing. It may be argued that the issue stems from poor choices not guided by intuition, yet we find that it gets worse when the afflicted person relaxes, whereas we know many people that do fine on diets that appear inadequate, indicating that targeting the diet is probably a bad idea, there's something else being draining that has to be addressed.

If this inefficiency is not taken care of with supplements, the consequence depends on whether the person is respecting cravings or not, but it will likely lead to overeating or forcing the metabolic rate to drop to conserve nutrients. The cravings start to degrade and the standards will decrease according to the degree of desperation to obtain what's missing. It's related to the recommendation to not buy your groceries when hungry. It's also moving towards binge-eating because you can expect stupid choices, the person might feel guilty about them once satiated and try to resist on the next times, initiating a problematic cycle. It may end up transfering the harmless attempt to get the situation under control with supplements to the harmful tricking of food selection, viewing foods as tools now that supplements have to be avoided.

Overeating and the questionable choices might create new problems with time. It's possible for the depletion to occurs faster than repletion in spite of what the person decides to eat, Raj's 'protective inhibition' will kick in and the effort in recovering from an imbalance is much greater without supplements. What could be solved within minutes may take days, in the meantime one disturbance creating another as well.

Extraordinary and specific needs are better addressed with supplementation. Requiring less supplements can serve as a sign that the condition is improving.

The orthomolecular manifesto. Ive printed it and put it alongside framed photos of Pauling, Hoffer and Shute

 

[Old Irenaeus]

Mainly Christians. Some Saints as I have mentioned. Mostly Orthodox in later years, some Catholics. People devoted to Religion, both modern and non modern.
It is a traditional food too and Peat approved (prepared right).
It is kind of a theory.

Also I am not suggesting anyone do it. It is merely to be less materialistic. If you cannot afford to do it, don't, although I believe abandoning Materialism is one of the goals for everyone. I cannot afford to do it now. I also don't know if it is possible now with all the burdens I cannot mention on the body, at least for folks like us who are not healthy by grace and by factors such as age of the mother at birth, health at birth and pregnancy, how long one was breastfed, etc...

I have done retreats where I just had one banana per day and felt great.

 

[gaze]

nvm figured it out

 

[Amazoniac]

What do you think about supplemental potassium (citrate) ? Is it mostly safe and if so in what doses ? I may give a try to this approach with b vitamins. One or two drops of energin give me a nice boost but so far I get cold hands later on, so tweaking the ratio may be wise.

Potassium is fine and safe, regulates the environment in cells, but various others insufficiencies are likely to be present and be of greater concern before a lack of potassium becomes worrying.

The intracellular ions have to be considered when a chronic catabolic state is being corrected. Refeeding syndrome is often associated with a phosphate shortage, but potassium and magnesium for example don't receive the same attention.

People may also associate the term with starvation in underdeveloped countries, but a single nutrient deficiency is capable of impairing the generation of cells and it can leave the person in a prolonged state that mimics the starvationatory state. Generalized malnutrition is of course worse, yet at least everything is in concert to suppress the metabolism, as opposed to the person who has discoordinated signals due to specific deficiencies, where most nutrients are stimulating it and only a few holding back.

Someone who is sick and has multiple deficiencies may be consuming pot cheese with honey in large amounts, where many nutrients are lost in milk processing, including potassium. Or, a person who isn't digesting protein well for a long time decides to take purified amino acids while boosting protein synthesis.

Intracellular isn't limited to tissues, it can be in blood (as mentioned by Medicosis and stressed in textbooks on the topic). Depletion can occur when new blood cells (considered intracellular compartment) have to be formed rapidly and it occurs faster than their degradation, whose materials could be recycled.

In km/h.
Source: the internet.​

It's an example where your need for potassium may become transiently elevated, but it's not difficult to obtain sufficient potassium from diet. If it's low in it, it's probably poor in other nutrients as well.

I'm surprised about your comment on diet. Perhaps you are referring to the 'pot of fresh cream with honey' meals or excluding all forms of vitamin A foods (or all starches etc..). At the moment I'm finding interesting benefits from limiting wheat and bread, as well as dairy, in particular milk and hard cheese, the latter which should be renamed food of death.

I try to avoid interfering in others' food choices (especially staples) because most people nowadays have an idea of what's potentially problematic or not, even those who are not into nutrition, for being bombared by the media. During a handpan session (esoteric reflections), I also realized that it's easy to focus on one aspect that could justify the exclusion of a food, but miss the rest that makes it overall beneficial for the person. I find it preferable to prioritize supplements for therapeutic purposes.

 

[Braveheart]

"I find it preferable to prioritize supplements for therapeutic purposes."

 

[GelatinGoblin]

In km/h.
Source: the internet.

Never change Amazoniac

 

[gaze]

I try to avoid interfering in others' food choices (especially staples) because most people nowadays have an idea of what's potentially problematic or not, even those who are not into nutrition, for being bombared by the media. During a handpan session (esoteric reflections), I also realized that it's easy to focus on one aspect that could justify the exclusion of a food, but miss the rest that makes it overall beneficial for the person. I find it preferable to prioritize supplements for therapeutic purposes.

is thyroid supplementation included in that or do you think that shouldn't be messed with by ordinary people

 

[Sam321]

So many people are obsessed with supplements, despite the fact that most have not seen a tangible improvement in their quality of life from them. Perhaps it's due to adopting the belief that a pill will magically cure your problems. At best it's the placebo effect.

Testosterone boosting one here, synthetic vitamins over here, etc.

After spending a ton of money on experimenting with different brands, herbs, and vitamins, I've recently realized what a scam it is. And an expensive one, at that.

All of that money could have gone towards whole foods this entire time, and I would've saved myself money and time from the neuroticism that led to researching different compounds.

Peat himself has spoken against the supplement industry and does not advocate the use of them.

"Any natural food is extremely purified, any supplement made chemically is going to be dirty, just in principle."

"One of the problems [with supplements] is that you don't get the unnamed and unidentified nutrients that are in any living tissue.

For example, in mushrooms, the content has hardly been sketched out,—there are thousands of potentially valuable nutrients or paranutritional substances, things that influence your quality of life that simply haven't been identified and tested."



Not to mention that any contamination, fillers, pill casings, etc. could irritate the gut and potentially stimulate the release of endotoxin.

Furthermore, if we starting viewing food differently, as vibrations that raise our life-force, it would make sense why lab-made substances most likely HARM our body.

Any isolated vitamin, even the fat solubles, likely causes deficiencies in minerals and unknown substances due to being unbalanced and unlike anything found in Nature.

And if a supplement increases the rate of some metabolic process it could eventually deplete some other substances involved in that process and can short circuit paths to healing.

If anything, supplements should be used for the bare minimum amount of time to elevate one out of a degenerative state, NOT to support an individual who is already healthy.

We've somehow forgotten what the word "supplement" means and now subconsciously view them as mandatory.

Sunlight, sleep, socializing, and great nutrition from whole foods is key. If you get those on lock, then you won't need to spend your money on popping unnecessary pills, creams, topical drops, or consuming powders.

Thoughts? Has anyone else also dropped all supplements after being obsessed with them?

Nailed it.

 

[Sam321]

is thyroid supplementation included in that or do you think that shouldn't be messed with by ordinary people

Traditional diets had thyroid in brains and thyroid gland thrown in soup.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Traditional diets had thyroid in brains and thyroid gland thrown in soup.

Wouldn't bet on it, traditional diet"" is a broad term

 

[Sam321]

Wouldn't bet on it, traditional diet"" is a broad term

Hunter gatherers ate head to tail.
If you do that you get thyroid. Period.

 

[gaze]

Hunter gatherers ate head to tail.
If you do that you get thyroid. Period.

yea but how often is the average person eating neck? seems like things such as fish head soup or chicken neck would be delicacies, not daily staples, so at most they would be getting like 1/2 grain of thyroid per week, unless i'm underestimating how much they ate foods like that