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larger quantity... toxic fat stored.. more careful about..

Birdie

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"‎The larger the quantity of "toxic fat" stored in the body, the more careful the person must be about increasing metabolic and physical activity. Using more vitamin E, short-chain saturated fats, and other anti-lipid-peroxidation agents is important."
 

Birdie

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Re: more toxic fat stored...more care

This was posted on the Fans page by Simone. Doesn't it seem to indicate that if you have a lot of toxic fat stored, you should go slow in raising the metabolism as well as increasing exercise??
 

narouz

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Jul 22, 2012
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Re: more toxic fat stored...more care

Birdie said:
This was posted on the Fans page by Simone. Doesn't it seem to indicate that if you have a lot of toxic fat stored, you should go slow in raising the metabolism as well as increasing exercise??

Yes, it does, Birdie.
About the exercise aspect of metabolism, at any rate.
But on the other hand,
I can't remember a single thing I've ever read from Peat
saying anyone should try to lower their metabolism.
Just the opposite: he always says the key is to crank the metabolism up.
Thyroid supplementation is one big way.
And then all of his dietary recommendations are oriented towards that goal too.

But, Birdie, you're poking around a question which frequently causes confusion with Peat.
Namely: if one has a lot of stored PUFA, how does one get rid of those without burning them?

Peat always seems to answer in this way:
The PUFA are best eliminated slowly.
We burn fat all the time, naturally and often slowly (in those with low metabolism).
Just let that process occur over time.
Peat doesn't have any kind of cleansing components to his diet/lifestyle--
like intense exercise or saunas or fasting--
which seek to burn off the PUFA fast.

Well, to qualify some,
to speed the PUFA release process, Peat says to:
-lower PUFA consumption as much a possible
-do all his dietary recommendations to increase the metabolism
-take his recommended supplements--centrally thyroid, if necessary--to increase metabolism
-take some coconut oil to increase metabolism; he also said something to the effect that
coconut oil seems to "rinse out" the PUFA from the tissue
-do his other things like light therapy and bag breathing to enhance metabolism
-drink coffee; he has said that coffee is the best "chelator" when someone asked him how to get rid of PUFA. (I think he may've been answering a question which was misconceived as best he could, because I wouldn't think "chelation" is the best way to describe the way PUFA is removed from the body, but I could be wrong about this.)

So in summary,
I guess I'd say that Peat doesn't recommend shortcuts in PUFA removal,
because that would be destructive to the cell and suppressive to the metabolism.
But I'm pretty sure that he says raising the metabolism
in healthy, Peat-recommended ways
is a way to effectively and safely speed up the out-processing of PUFA.

This is a tricky area, but what do you think Birdie?
 
G

gummybear

Guest
Re: more toxic fat stored...more care

narouz said:
Birdie said:
This was posted on the Fans page by Simone. Doesn't it seem to indicate that if you have a lot of toxic fat stored, you should go slow in raising the metabolism as well as increasing exercise??

Yes, it does, Birdie.
About the exercise aspect of metabolism, at any rate.
But on the other hand,
I can't remember a single thing I've ever read from Peat
saying anyone should try to lower their metabolism.
Just the opposite: he always says the key is to crank the metabolism up.
Thyroid supplementation is one big way.
And then all of his dietary recommendations are oriented towards that goal too.

But, Birdie, you're poking around a question which frequently causes confusion with Peat.
Namely: if one has a lot of stored PUFA, how does one get rid of those without burning them?

Peat always seems to answer in this way:
The PUFA are best eliminated slowly.
We burn fat all the time, naturally and often slowly (in those with low metabolism).
Just let that process occur over time.
Peat doesn't have any kind of cleansing components to his diet/lifestyle--
like intense exercise or saunas or fasting--
which seek to burn off the PUFA fast.

Well, to qualify some,
to speed the PUFA release process, Peat says to:
-lower PUFA consumption as much a possible
-do all his dietary recommendations to increase the metabolism
-take his recommended supplements--centrally thyroid, if necessary--to increase metabolism
-take some coconut oil to increase metabolism; he also said something to the effect that
coconut oil seems to "rinse out" the PUFA from the tissue
-do his other things like light therapy and bag breathing to enhance metabolism
-drink coffee; he has said that coffee is the best "chelator" when someone asked him how to get rid of PUFA. (I think he may've been answering a question which was misconceived as best he could, because I wouldn't think "chelation" is the best way to describe the way PUFA is removed from the body, but I could be wrong about this.)

So in summary,
I guess I'd say that Peat doesn't recommend shortcuts in PUFA removal,
because that would be destructive to the cell and suppressive to the metabolism.
But I'm pretty sure that he says raising the metabolism
in healthy, Peat-recommended ways
is a way to effectively and safely speed up the out-processing of PUFA.

This is a tricky area, but what do you think Birdie?

Good post, narouz. It's so easy to wanna see the short answer or the shortcut but we have to get the whole picture to understand it fully.
 

nwo2012

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Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,107
Re: more toxic fat stored...more care

narouz said:
Birdie said:
This was posted on the Fans page by Simone. Doesn't it seem to indicate that if you have a lot of toxic fat stored, you should go slow in raising the metabolism as well as increasing exercise??

Yes, it does, Birdie.
About the exercise aspect of metabolism, at any rate.
But on the other hand,
I can't remember a single thing I've ever read from Peat
saying anyone should try to lower their metabolism.
Just the opposite: he always says the key is to crank the metabolism up.
Thyroid supplementation is one big way.
And then all of his dietary recommendations are oriented towards that goal too.

But, Birdie, you're poking around a question which frequently causes confusion with Peat.
Namely: if one has a lot of stored PUFA, how does one get rid of those without burning them?

Peat always seems to answer in this way:
The PUFA are best eliminated slowly.
We burn fat all the time, naturally and often slowly (in those with low metabolism).
Just let that process occur over time.
Peat doesn't have any kind of cleansing components to his diet/lifestyle--
like intense exercise or saunas or fasting--
which seek to burn off the PUFA fast.

Well, to qualify some,
to speed the PUFA release process, Peat says to:
-lower PUFA consumption as much a possible
-do all his dietary recommendations to increase the metabolism
-take his recommended supplements--centrally thyroid, if necessary--to increase metabolism
-take some coconut oil to increase metabolism; he also said something to the effect that
coconut oil seems to "rinse out" the PUFA from the tissue
-do his other things like light therapy and bag breathing to enhance metabolism
-drink coffee; he has said that coffee is the best "chelator" when someone asked him how to get rid of PUFA. (I think he may've been answering a question which was misconceived as best he could, because I wouldn't think "chelation" is the best way to describe the way PUFA is removed from the body, but I could be wrong about this.)

So in summary,
I guess I'd say that Peat doesn't recommend shortcuts in PUFA removal,
because that would be destructive to the cell and suppressive to the metabolism.
But I'm pretty sure that he says raising the metabolism
in healthy, Peat-recommended ways
is a way to effectively and safely speed up the out-processing of PUFA.

This is a tricky area, but what do you think Birdie?

I asked Ray a while back about this. His answer says all I needed to know.

RP
Thyroid and sugar help the liver to detoxify them by glucuronidation, without having to oxidize them.
 

narouz

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Re: larger quantity... toxic fat stored.. more careful about

That's fascinating, Birdie.
I've never read him anywhere else saying it exactly like that!

So..."glucuronidation"...
That does sound like a form of chelation!

And what is most striking about the quote
is that, if I'm understanding it,
the evil stored PUFA are not really "burned" (oxidized) at all.
They just exit gradually
if the metabolism is working well
and (maybe redundantly)
if the liver is working well
(perhaps helped by sugar and enough thyroid;
I guess that would be considered an aspect of "metabolism.")

Thank you, Birdie.
I always wanted more clarity on that obscure Peat-area.
I've read (here and on other forums) a lot of people ask about it too.
The answer!
 

Birdie

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Re: larger quantity... toxic fat stored.. more careful about

I'm away for a while. Death in the family.
 

narouz

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Re: larger quantity... toxic fat stored.. more careful about

I'm sorry, Birdie.
Come back soon.
 

Birdie

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Re: larger quantity... toxic fat stored.. more careful about

Thanks, narouz.
 

narouz

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Re: more toxic fat stored...more care

nwo2012 said:
I asked Ray a while back about this. His answer says all I needed to know.

RP
Thyroid and sugar help the liver to detoxify them by glucuronidation, without having to oxidize them.

nwo2012--

I see I didn't thank you for this great bit of info.
Thanks!
I'd never heard that explanation.
Different Peat interpreters will usually say
that we always burn a little fat (and therefore PUFA)
--so that was the mechanism of evacuation
I had previously accepted.

Now--from your relayed bit from Peat--
it looks like the PUFA are expelled
without any "burning" or oxidation at all.
Rather, it (glucuronidation) would seem to be a kind of chelation.

You da man!
 

montmorency

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Oxfordshire, UK
Re: larger quantity... toxic fat stored.. more careful about

He also says somewhere that young people (say, below 20) naturally tend to have high metabolisms and "burn" away PUFAs quickly.

Now he may not have said specifically "burn", and might have meant dispose of, in a generic sense which might might have meant or included glucuronidation,

I think we may all remember that we "got away" with more dietary sins when we were that age. I was certainly at my leanest and probably most active then, and I paid little attention to the quality of what I consumed.
 

Birdie

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Re: more toxic fat stored...more care

narouz said:
nwo2012 said:
I asked Ray a while back about this. His answer says all I needed to know.

RP
Thyroid and sugar help the liver to detoxify them by glucuronidation, without having to oxidize them.

nwo2012--

I see I didn't thank you for this great bit of info.
Thanks!
I'd never heard that explanation.
Different Peat interpreters will usually say
that we always burn a little fat (and therefore PUFA)
--so that was the mechanism of evacuation
I had previously accepted.

Now--from your relayed bit from Peat--
it looks like the PUFA are expelled
without any "burning" or oxidation at all.
Rather, it (glucuronidation) would seem to be a kind of chelation.

You da man!

Yes. From what I understand, that's the point.
And people with a lot of stored fat need to be careful not to burn the pufa, not to run on fat.

And, like montmorency says, young livers can do the detox a lot faster.

Older livers don't detox as fast. So, an older person with big fat storage has to be careful, meaning a more constant stream of sugar (fruit) and careful watching of the thyroid (temps/heart rate). A careful raising of the metabolism.
 

Birdie

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Re: larger quantity... toxic fat stored.. more careful about

Oh, I hadn't thought about stored toxic fat requiring extra care (more constant sugar, less pufa) for a long time.

Another thing is that if one has a compromised liver, as I do, then, too, a lot of sugar/fruit is needed in a more constant flow.
I think this would put me in the same category as those with a larger quantity of toxic fat stored, even though I am more slim.

As narouz pointed out, nausea can be a sign of reduced liver function. Endlessly grateful to him for pointing this out. I'd heard it before but, not until then did it click and I realized that was probably the cause of my intermittent mild nausea.
 

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