Large breasts continue expanding, posture is suffering, remedies?

[JamesGatz]

That's a good point -- the stress of fitting into the fashions of this particular society. I think many of the clothes made for women have become more formless, especially compared to 1940/50s style hourglass dresses. Its cliche but the tall skinny supermodels look great in fashionable modern clothing, but the styles don't always translate well onto other body shapes. I think in other cultures, like say India, the women wear more comfortable clothes and still manage to look very attractive.
Yeah its the bra that digs into the shoulders and messes with the skeletal system most. I only feel compelled to wear it when I'm going out or doing physically demanding chores. I'll see small chested women go bra-less but for the large chested it remains taboo.

Yea - the same thing happens to me - if I wear looser clothes my bones maintain a nice large/extended shape but tight clothes make everything very uncomfortable

I'm wondering if big, saggy breasts are the way they are supposed to be - female primates all have saggy breasts regardless of type of primate and cavemen sculptures of their dream girl always depict them with huge, saggy breasts - I think these cavemen females will be a lot closer to ideal than women who wore dresses because they had a lot less restricting the growth

Even before bras - the paintings/images of females in 1800's tend to wear tighter clothes in the upper body so no surprise many had smaller breasts

 

[dreamcatcher]

Progesterone use definitely impacted my breast size. I went from a DD to a DDD. One of the aspects of progesterone I do not like tbh. Also Wacoal Perfect Primer Bra is supportive but not granny-looking even in the DDD sizes. Very comfortable also.

That's interesting, re progesterone. Taking it drastically reduced my breast size years ago. When I contacted Ray Peat about it, he said, it might have reduced my estrogen levels too much.

 

[Peatness]

I think weight training might help - I personally cannot leave the house without a bar but increasingly I find them uncomfortable.

Professor says bras are useless

15-year study shows that women become dependent on their lingerie as supporting muscle tissue withers

www.connexionfrance.com

 

[artist]

@EchoTango are you sure you’re wearing the right bra size? If you haven’t already, you should check out r/abrathatfits on Reddit and try doing some measurements at home. Any time I hear someone say she has huge boobs but wears only a DD/DDD it raises a flag to me, you might need a smaller band but a bigger cup size bc most bra sizing guidance is totally BS. This might not solve your problem but it could help (unless you’re already savvy to this kind of thing).

 

[artist]

I think weight training might help - I personally cannot leave the house without a bar but increasingly I find them uncomfortable.

Professor says bras are useless

15-year study shows that women become dependent on their lingerie as supporting muscle tissue withers

www.connexionfrance.com

I agree with weight training. As far as bras being harmful, the tissue that holds breasts up is ligament, so I don’t see how lessening the weight hanging on the ligament could cause a problem rather than be a solution, as my understanding is that ligaments cannot be “trained” like muscle. The bodies of women who live topless their whole lives (I’m basing this on National Geographic) would also suggest that bralessness does not prevent breast sagging. However, due to the interests/convenience of clothing manufacturers most women are wearing the wrong bras (loose unsupportive bands, small restrictive cups) and I can see how this could be counterproductive. I also think that breasts are basically “supposed” to sag, it’s purely a vain pursuit to minimize it as much as possible, a pursuit I will continue to engage in…

I also don’t trust a French guy to engage in this research with honesty ?

 

[Dolomite]

I agree with @artist about the cup size. After drinking a lot of milk and other Peat type foods I had to change bra sizes. I went from a B to a D and it is more comfortable even if I don't fill it out completely. I know wires get a bad rap but I like them because they keep the breasts separated and not hanging where they rub on the skin below.

 

[YourUniverse]

Chinups or pulldowns, swings or deadlifts, and abs!

 

[I'm.No.One]

I appreciate you mentioning this. For other reasons including initial heavy use of progesterone, I had suspected low T, in part because progesterone's lowering effect on T.

I will look into a hormonal panel. This week I also tried to take pregnenolone for the first time in many months. That first attempt had made me feel crazy, but this time I am tolerating it and feeling more mentally resilient, like myself. Its pure speculation, but maybe the pregnenolone is assisting in downstream production of hormones including testosterone.

I'm interested in your use of pine pollen -- have you noticed an increase in muscle building since taking it?

Thanks!

Not really, but there's not huge amounts of T in pine pollen & I don't want to swing the pendulum in the wrong direction sorta deal.

But also I'm only gently muscle building as I'm recovering from severe burnout so that's probably a factor in why I'm not seeing a noticeable difference in muscle gain.

I will say I have more effortless self direction, meaning I don't have any delay in hopping up & getting something done. Versus having to think about it, decided to do it, & then mentally be like "uhhh okay, let's get this sh*t done."

I use American River pollen on Etsy, he hand gathers & it's not irradiated to crack the cell walls. Hot water or a freezer will take care of that.

 

[Peatness]

I agree with weight training. As far as bras being harmful, the tissue that holds breasts up is ligament, so I don’t see how lessening the weight hanging on the ligament could cause a problem rather than be a solution, as my understanding is that ligaments cannot be “trained” like muscle. The bodies of women who live topless their whole lives (I’m basing this on National Geographic) would also suggest that bralessness does not prevent breast sagging. However, due to the interests/convenience of clothing manufacturers most women are wearing the wrong bras (loose unsupportive bands, small restrictive cups) and I can see how this could be counterproductive. I also think that breasts are basically “supposed” to sag, it’s purely a vain pursuit to minimize it as much as possible, a pursuit I will continue to engage in…

I also don’t trust a French guy to engage in this research with honesty ?

Some good points here.

I wondered about the french dude but figured Dr Peat is an expert on female hormones so this guy might have a valid point. Perhaps he has hands on experience

 

[EchoTango]

@EchoTango are you sure you’re wearing the right bra size? If you haven’t already, you should check out r/abrathatfits on Reddit and try doing some measurements at home. Any time I hear someone say she has huge boobs but wears only a DD/DDD it raises a flag to me, you might need a smaller band but a bigger cup size bc most bra sizing guidance is totally BS. This might not solve your problem but it could help (unless you’re already savvy to this kind of thing).

Well, this has been enlightening to say the least. I measured yesterday and today just to make sure of accuracy -- and it translates to 36K size. So basically I've been unconsciously torturing myself for I'm not sure how long by trying to squeeze into the available sizes at the store and make it work. Thanks, I am actually looking forward to trying on a bra (in the right size) for the first time in years.

 

[EchoTango]

I agree with weight training. As far as bras being harmful, the tissue that holds breasts up is ligament, so I don’t see how lessening the weight hanging on the ligament could cause a problem rather than be a solution, as my understanding is that ligaments cannot be “trained” like muscle. The bodies of women who live topless their whole lives (I’m basing this on National Geographic) would also suggest that bralessness does not prevent breast sagging. However, due to the interests/convenience of clothing manufacturers most women are wearing the wrong bras (loose unsupportive bands, small restrictive cups) and I can see how this could be counterproductive. I also think that breasts are basically “supposed” to sag, it’s purely a vain pursuit to minimize it as much as possible, a pursuit I will continue to engage in…

I also don’t trust a French guy to engage in this research with honesty ?

I appreciate your humor and common sense observations here, and agree that the apparent conflicts of interest make that French study susceptible to confirmation bias :)

 

[EchoTango]

Not really, but there's not huge amounts of T in pine pollen & I don't want to swing the pendulum in the wrong direction sorta deal.

But also I'm only gently muscle building as I'm recovering from severe burnout so that's probably a factor in why I'm not seeing a noticeable difference in muscle gain.

Yes, I understand. I also have to be careful with my activities for similar reasons. When I exercise it has to be relaxing/recharging like yoga or walking in nature, since there is plenty of activity involved in daily chores as it is.

I will say I have more effortless self direction, meaning I don't have any delay in hopping up & getting something done. Versus having to think about it, decided to do it, & then mentally be like "uhhh okay, let's get this sh*t done."

Well said.

I use American River pollen on Etsy, he hand gathers & it's not irradiated to crack the cell walls. Hot water or a freezer will take care of that.

Glad to know of a clean source - thank you!

 

[EchoTango]

Yea - the same thing happens to me - if I wear looser clothes my bones maintain a nice large/extended shape but tight clothes make everything very uncomfortable

I'm wondering if big, saggy breasts are the way they are supposed to be - female primates all have saggy breasts regardless of type of primate and cavemen sculptures of their dream girl always depict them with huge, saggy breasts - I think these cavemen females will be a lot closer to ideal than women who wore dresses because they had a lot less restricting the growth

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Even before bras - the paintings/images of females in 1800's tend to wear tighter clothes in the upper body so no surprise many had smaller breasts

Very true that the binding effects of clothes and corsets influence the shape of bone structure etc. It is hard to see how restricting the organs and everything within can be all that positive.

Reminds me of Nietzsche:

“The man who…was forced into an oppressive narrowness and regularity of custom, impatiently tore himself apart, persecuted himself, gnawed away at himself, grew upset, and did himself damage…With him was introduced the greatest and weirdest illness, from which human beings today have not recovered, the suffering of man from his own nature, from himself, a consequence of the forcible separation from his animal past…a declaration of war against the old instincts, on which, up to that point, his power, joy, and ability to inspire fear had been based.”
--On the Genealogy of Morals

Nietzsche and The Human Animal: The Domesticated and The Strong

“I call an animal, a species, an individual corrupt, when it loses its instincts, when it chooses, when it prefers, what is harmful to it.”Nietzsche, The Antichrist Throughout much of history, humans have perceived themselves as superior to all other creatures. Myths of our divine origin and our...

academyofideas.com

 

[Blossom]

I will say that progesterone made my breasts grow when I started peating. I didn’t mind because I was always an A cup. I went up to a D with progesterone and weight gain but now that I’m back to my normal size and post menopause they have never gone down completely and I settled at a B cup. I guess it’s one of the consequences of optimizing our hormones. :)
Best wishes!

 

[EchoTango]

I agree with @artist about the cup size. After drinking a lot of milk and other Peat type foods I had to change bra sizes. I went from a B to a D and it is more comfortable even if I don't fill it out completely. I know wires get a bad rap but I like them because they keep the breasts separated and not hanging where they rub on the skin below.

I agree that it feels better to keep them separated -- the uniboob is the bane of my existence. It also feels like the 'heart center' is more open that way.

 

[EchoTango]

I will say that progesterone made my breasts grow when I started peating. I didn’t mind because I was always an A cup. I went up to a D with progesterone and weight gain but now that I’m back to my normal size and post menopause they have never gone down completely and I settled at a B cup. I guess it’s one of the consequences of optimizing our hormones. :)
Best wishes!

Thanks for sharing - very interesting!

 

[artist]

Well, this has been enlightening to say the least. I measured yesterday and today just to make sure of accuracy -- and it translates to 36K size. So basically I've been unconsciously torturing myself for I'm not sure how long by trying to squeeze into the available sizes at the store and make it work. Thanks, I am actually looking forward to trying on a bra (in the right size) for the first time in years.

I’m so glad it helped!

 

[artist]

Also love the relation of Nietzsche to bras. Much to think about