Lotte

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I took Lapodin for 3 weeks (6 drops topically once or twice per day). It improved my sleep a lot.
After 2 weeks I started suffering from estrogenic symptoms (water retention, mood swings like PMS though being in the first half of my cycle) getting worse while continuing Lapodin for another week.
Then I stopped taking Lapodin and it took 4 weeks to get rid of the estrogenic symptoms. Emodin is a phytoestrogen (with proven anti-estrogenic effects on the ER of breast tumor cells), probably the reason for the side-effects I experienced.
 
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haidut

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I took Lapodin for 3 weeks (6 drops topically once or twice per day). It improved my sleep a lot.
After 2 weeks I started suffering from estrogenic symptoms (water retention, mood swings like PMS though being in the first half of my cycle) getting worse while continuing Lapodin for another week.
Then I stopped taking Lapodin and it took 4 weeks to get rid of the estrogenic symptoms. Emodin is a phytoestrogen (with proven anti-estrogenic effects on the ER of breast tumor cells), probably the reason for the side-effects I experienced.

Thanks for the feedback. Btw, where did you see that emodin is estrogenic? The links I have seen show that its effects on inhibiting breast cancer are through blocking of ER-a.
Emodin and Aloe-Emodin Suppress Breast Cancer Cell Proliferation through ER α Inhibition. - PubMed - NCBI
 

andrei

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Took two drops every night last week except one night when i took four and that was too much for me.

Did my once a week work out on sunday and was noticeably less sore, but didn't take lapodin the night before working out or after.

Resumed taking it last night. My muscles have been harder, been sleeping like a baby and my libido is way up. What the hell is this stuff
Orally or topically?
 

Lotte

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Thanks for the feedback. Btw, where did you see that emodin is estrogenic? The links I have seen show that its effects on inhibiting breast cancer are through blocking of ER-a.
Emodin and Aloe-Emodin Suppress Breast Cancer Cell Proliferation through ER α Inhibition. - PubMed - NCBI
For example in the study you cited:
„Several lines of evidence indicate that emodin and aloe-emodin have estrogenic activity and modulate breast cancer cell proliferation as phytoestrogen compounds.“


Another study:

Redirecting

Hisashi Matsuda, Hiroshi Shimoda, Toshio Morikawa, Masayuki Yoshikawa,

Phytoestrogens from the roots of Polygonum cuspidatum (polygonaceae): structure-Requirement of hydroxyanthraquinones for estrogenic activity,

Bioorganic & Medicinal Chemistry Letters,
Volume 11, Issue 14,
2001,
Pages 1839-1842,
ISSN 0960-894X,


„These findings indicate that hydroxyanthraquinones such as emodin are phytoestrogens with an affinity to human estrogen receptors.“
 
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haidut

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For example in the study you cited:
„Several lines of evidence indicate that emodin and aloe-emodin have estrogenic activity and modulate breast cancer cell proliferation as phytoestrogen compounds.“


Another study:

Redirecting

Hisashi Matsuda, Hiroshi Shimoda, Toshio Morikawa, Masayuki Yoshikawa,

Phytoestrogens from the roots of Polygonum cuspidatum (polygonaceae): structure-Requirement of hydroxyanthraquinones for estrogenic activity,

Bioorganic & Medicinal Chemistry Letters,
Volume 11, Issue 14,
2001,
Pages 1839-1842,
ISSN 0960-894X,


„These findings indicate that hydroxyanthraquinones such as emodin are phytoestrogens with an affinity to human estrogen receptors.“

Noted. But again, if emodin was estrogenic it would promote and not inhibit breast cancer proliferation. It also has inhibitory effects on other estrogen-sensitive cancers like prostate. So, while it seemingly binds ER and can displace estrogen, it is a poor activator of the ER, which makes it basically an antagonist and in some cases even inverse agonist on ER.
 

Lotte

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Noted. But again, if emodin was estrogenic it would promote and not inhibit breast cancer proliferation. It also has inhibitory effects on other estrogen-sensitive cancers like prostate. So, while it seemingly binds ER and can displace estrogen, it is a poor activator of the ER, which makes it basically an antagonist and in some cases even inverse agonist on ER.


Estrogenic and anti-breast cancer do not exclude each other (for example effects and side-effects of Tamoxifen)


In this study emodin is proposed to be suitable for HRT because of its estrogenic and anti-breast cancer properties:


Molecules2018, 23(5), 1215; In Vitro Estrogenic and Breast Cancer Inhibitory Activities of Chemical Constituents Isolated from Rheum undulatum L.

Article

In Vitro Estrogenic and Breast Cancer Inhibitory Activities of Chemical Constituents Isolated from Rheum undulatumL.

Dahae Lee1,†, SeonJu Park2,†, Sungyoul Choi3, Seung Hyun Kim2,* and Ki Sung Kang3,*


Therefore, R. undulatumcomponents (aloe emodin, rhapontigenin, and chrysophanol 1-O-β-d-glucopyranoside) may be promising candidates for hormone replacement therapy and chemoprevention of breast cancer because of their estrogenic and breast cancer inhibitory activities.
 
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haidut

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Estrogenic and anti-breast cancer do not exclude each other (for example effects and side-effects of Tamoxifen)


In this study emodin is proposed to be suitable for HRT because of its estrogenic and anti-breast cancer properties:


Molecules2018, 23(5), 1215; In Vitro Estrogenic and Breast Cancer Inhibitory Activities of Chemical Constituents Isolated from Rheum undulatum L.

Article

In Vitro Estrogenic and Breast Cancer Inhibitory Activities of Chemical Constituents Isolated from Rheum undulatumL.

Dahae Lee1,†, SeonJu Park2,†, Sungyoul Choi3, Seung Hyun Kim2,* and Ki Sung Kang3,*


Therefore, R. undulatumcomponents (aloe emodin, rhapontigenin, and chrysophanol 1-O-β-d-glucopyranoside) may be promising candidates for hormone replacement therapy and chemoprevention of breast cancer because of their estrogenic and breast cancer inhibitory activities.

There are some very specific definition of what estrogenic is. Uterine assays, breast growth, prolactin release, etc are the standards typically used. Using ALL of those, emodin is decidedly anti-estrogenic (or inactive) while tamofixen is estrogenic in the uterine and prolactin assays. I am sure some pharma study will find a way to claim that emodin is estrogenic just because it fits greatly with the narrative of estrogen being good and trying to bring it back to market despite the abysmal results from the WHI studies.
Again, just because something binds the ER does not make it estrogenic. A strong affinity for ER but no or very weak activation creates a functional anti-estrogen since it prevents more potent estrogens like estradiol from binding the estrogen receptor AND activating them.
If you want to make a good point for emodin being estrogenic please find me an in vivo study showing such effects. Again, binding studies and receptor affinities only show structural similarity, not what the effects will be in vivo especially in the presence of more potent endogenous estrogens with which emodin likely competes.
 

Bart1

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@haidut sorry for the stupid weird question, but I have a stain on my brand new watch; it’s on numbers of the movable ring from the chronograph. Is there any solution which can remove the stain from it ?
 
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haidut

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@haidut sorry for the stupid weird question, but I have a stain on my brand new watch; it’s on numbers of the movable ring from the chronograph. Is there any solution which can remove the stain from it ?

Is the stain from Lapodin? Usually, rubbing alcohol can remove it and so can vinegar but vinegar can also be corrosive so I'd try the alcohol first.
 

Bart1

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It’s from lapodin yes. Tried all kinds of things, vodka, vinegar am not able to get it completely away. I will look for a full alcohol solution. Thanks.

To others, be careful what you touch, even after washing your hands you can still stain something. Maybe use something different then your hands or use the product orally.

Great product btw!
 

ddjd

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I would still use some sugar with it as it can have pretty potent hypoglycemic effects. But I agree on using on empty stomach when possible.

is it the hypoglycemic effect that causes the stomach flattening.
 
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Light

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Hey @haidut, have you seen this:
Effect of piperine on the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of emodin in rats.
Effect of piperine on the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of emodin in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

upload_2019-7-12_15-23-41.png


I don't have access to the full article, and I thought maybe you do.
They seem to be writing about oral administration of both Emodin and Piperine.
Do you have any idea what dosages they're talking about?
And I also wonder if it could increase absorption topically - mixing Lapodin+ black pepper and rubbing it on the skin,
or if oral Lapodin+black pepper would reduce the laxative effect of Emodin as well as improve its absorption.
What do you think?
 
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Light

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I came across a chance discovery -
If you rub Lapodin onto the skin, and then add a few drops of MagnOil,
it first turns a weird red/pink, but as you continue to rub it in it makes the orange color completely disappear,
and leaves just a nice tan hue, like a mild fake tan.

Since DMSO is used with emodin and lapachone in differend experiments, it shouldn't harm them (I hope).
And since it seems to increase the solubility of the Lapodin, I wonder if it also increases the absorption of it.
 

Kray

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Thank you so much for the great feedback! Do you experience belly shrinking from Lapodin? I find that a dose of about 5-10 drops noticeably shrinks my belly even if I am severely bloated (i.e. morning after a night our drinking).
Just dusted off my old Lapodin bottle...."where have you been all my life"? Incredibly noticeable results overnight-- great uninterrupted sleep and awakening refreshed, and belly shrinking and increase in metabolism. Wonderful results! 6 drops topically at night, 6 in the morning. Thank you, Haidut!
 

Light

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Hi @haidut
I'm using Lapodin to decrease HIF, and so far I've been taking it mostly orally.
I found 2 studies done in vivo, one with mice and one with rats, where they used a much higher dose than the recommended Lapodin serving:
Emodin and rhein decrease levels of hypoxia-inducible factor-1α in human pancreatic cancer cells and attenuate cancer cachexia in athymic mice carrying these cells
Here mice were given 50 mg/kg through gavage, so basically orally, and:
Aloe-emodin suppresses hypoxia-induced retinal angiogenesis via inhibition of HIF-1α/VEGF pathway. - PubMed - NCBI
Here rat pups were injected with 5.0 and 10.0 mg/kg

That should correlate to 50-250 mg for a human my size (65kg) and that seems exessive.
Is there a way to safely take high dose Lapodine?
I've been meaning to mix it with high dose Kuinone, both to enhance the supression of HIF and to prevent bleeding.
What would you say are the safest upper dosages of these two products if taken together?
Thank You

Edit - Btw I'm also increasing vitamin B1 slowly and plan to get it up to about 1,500mg/day,
because CO2 also seems like a good HIF supressor/degragator. Would that change the Lapodin/Kuinone effects?
 

Elize

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Hi Why such a high b1 dose? I am on 300 mg and wondering. What a higher dose would do

Thanks so much for sharing
 

Light

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Hi Why such a high b1 dose? I am on 300 mg and wondering. What a higher dose would do

Thanks so much for sharing

I searched for thiamine on the forum, mostly haidut's posts, and though there are lots of variations, this seems to repeatedly come up as a useful dose:

I posted some other studies for thiamine and Alzheimer and PD. For Alzheimer, the dosage was in the range of 6,000-8,000 mg per day in divided doses. Then I posted another study comparing bioavailability and half life of different dosages of thiamine. That last study found that taking 1,500mg every 4 hours would maintain plasma concentration similar to the one that helped with Alzheimer. Finally, there was a study of thiamine for CFS and they did 1,500-1,800 mg daily.
So, 600mg is probably the minimum effective dosage I'd guess. Unfortunately, the studies on Hashimoto, MS, and Chron's were not dose-response studies, so we are left with experimentation again.

Here is the study:
High dose thiamine improves fatigue in multiple sclerosis. - PubMed - NCBI

The suggested dose is in 600mg-1500mg per day orally. More evidence that MS is energetic in origin.

Hi all,

As a follow up to the discussion on vitamin B1 dosage, here are two recent studies on high-dose thiamine (100mg-200mg IV daily) treating both early and established PD cases:
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2013 ... 9.abstract
www.neurores.org/index.php/neurores/art ... ad/155/155

The oral dosage of 1500mg every 4 hours may get the same plasma levels as the 100mg-200mg IV used in the studies above.
So, what is the high dose effective for cancer inhibition? The study says doses of "...greater than 75 times the recommended daily intake". If the RDA for thiamine is 1.2mg per day for adults, then 90mg+ per day is what would be needed for cancer inhibition. The study I posted on absorption of various doses of thiamine showed that 1,500mg dose maintains plasma levels for more than 10 hours and the plasma level even at the end of the 10 hours was still higher than what 90mg would achieve. So, 1,500mg twice a day would keep thiamine levels constantly high and at a level where it should inhibit cancer growth.
I don't know of the thiamine effect was dose dependent since I don't have access to the study, but if someone can get the study it would be helpful to learn that info. If this truly works as the study describes, thiamine has huge potential for cancer management/treatment, together with metabolism boosters like aspirin and caffeine!
 

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