niko

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new here, but really excited to found y'all... ordered a bunch of stuff and started taking it. will report on case and progress in an appropriate subforum..
but... how do you take this stuff. seriously messy... my wife is yelling at me because I am chaning the whole bathroom to a new color (well her sopa bar and a few other items) any suggestions? thanks
 
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haidut

haidut

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new here, but really excited to found y'all... ordered a bunch of stuff and started taking it. will report on case and progress in an appropriate subforum..
but... how do you take this stuff. seriously messy... my wife is yelling at me because I am chaning the whole bathroom to a new color (well her sopa bar and a few other items) any suggestions? thanks

Pretty much all quinones stain. Not sure much can be done about it other than applying to body areas that are not very visible. Armpits, shoulders, maybe legs, etc.
 

saene

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Sorry to hear about this. Although we do not endorse it, some people have switched to using Lapodin orally due to the skin irritation and seem to be experiencing the same benefits. Also, we will try to make a DMSO-free version of Lapodin, hopefully available next week.

Hi just wanted to report that I also started to have burning followed by a red itchy rash with continued use (more than a few days) of lapodin but it is happening with the sfa preparation so maybe I am just sensitive to a component? It’s a shame because i think it was really helping me. I also have reproduced the rash so I am pretty sure it’s the lapodin and not something else. Any one else have this issue?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Hi just wanted to report that I also started to have burning followed by a red itchy rash with continued use (more than a few days) of lapodin but it is happening with the sfa preparation so maybe I am just sensitive to a component? It’s a shame because i think it was really helping me. I also have reproduced the rash so I am pretty sure it’s the lapodin and not something else. Any one else have this issue?

It looks like some people are sensitive to the quinones, so applying to body areas with thicker skin (shoulders, legs, etc) may help limit or eliminate this reaction.
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
960
Peat has written many articles on the topic of quinones and their effects on metabolism / respiration. The earliest official work probably started around the time of William Koch in the early 20th century and continues to this day. Many people are familiar with the popular quinone CoQ10 but there are other ones Ray has written about over the years, including anthraquinones like emodin and napththoquinones like vitamin K. Vitamin K has recently been found to be able to server as an alternative electron carrier for the electron transport chain even in the complete absence of CoQ10, so its importance in metabolism is indisputable.
Another napththoquinone that William Koch worked with in his later life while exiled in Brasil was lapachone - found in the bark of the Lapacho tree (aka Pau D'Arco, Tabebuia avellanedae). Lapachone was intensively studies in the 1960s and 1970s as a treatment for cancer but interest waned as the genetic theory of cancer conquered academia and the medical profession.
Being quinones, both emodin and beta-lapachone are intimately involved in the proper functioning of the electron transport chain, the recycling of NADH back to NAD and protecting from the systemic effects of stress and aging. In addition to these metabolic / systemic effects, both quinones have been shown to have a staggering array of effects including protecting from radiation, hypoxia, inflammation, endotoxin, diabetes, cortisol, aldosterone, estrogen, prolactin, serotonin, histamine, nitric oxide (NO), carbon monoxide (CO) viruses, bacteria, fungi, and even the aging process in general. Given their profoundly systemic effects, it is very likely that these two quinones can contribute to improved well-being and resistance to stress, aging, and frailty. The full list of references on both substances is so large that I had to post them as separate threads, which can be found at the bottom of this thread in the References section. As a shorter alternative, below are a few quotes from Peat in regards to these amazing substances.

Cascara, energy, cancer and the FDA's laxative abuse.
"...Emodin inhibits the formation of nitric oxide, increases mitochondrial respiration, inhibits angiogenesis and invasiveness, inhibits fatty acid synthase (Zhang, et al., 2002), inhibits HER-2 neu and tyrosine phosphorylases (Zhang, et al., 1995, 1999), and promotes cellular differentiation in cancer cells (Zhang, et al., 1995). The anthraquinones, like other antiinflammatory substances, reduce leakage from blood vessels, but they also reduce the absorption of water from the intestine. Reduced water absorption can be seen in a slight shrinkage of cells in certain circumsstances, and is probably related to their promotion of cellular differentiation."

"...Zelnorm was said to “act like serotonin.” Serotonin slows metabolism, reduces oxygen consumption, and increases free radicals such as superoxide and nitric oxide;the production of reactive oxygen species is probably an essential part of its normal function. Emodin has an opposing effect, increasing the metabolic rate. It increases mitochondrial oxygen consumption and ATP synthesis, while decreasing oxidative damage (Du and Ko, 2005, 2006; Huang, et al., 1995)."

"...Emodin isn’t a magic bullet (in fact it isn’t a bullet/toxin of any sort), but when combined with all the other adaptogens, it does have a place in cancer therapy, as well as in treating many other ailments. None of the basic metaphors of mainstream medicine--receptors, lock-and-key, membrane pores and pumps--can account for the laxative, anticancer, cell-protective effects of emodin. The new interest in it provides an opportunity to continue to investigate the effects of adjusting the electrical state of the cell substance, building on the foundations created by William F. Koch, Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, and Gilbert Ling."

Cancer: Disorder and Energy

"...Emodin and the anthraquinones (and naphthoquinones, such as lapachone) weren’t the reagents that Koch considered the most powerful, but emodin can produce to some degree all of the effects that he believed could be achieved by correcting the cellular respiratory apparatus:Antiinflammatory, antifibrotic (Wang, et al., 2007) antiviral, antidepressant, heart protective, antioxidant, memory enhancing, anticancer, anxiolytic and possibly antipsychotic."

"...Emodin, an anti-inflammatory substance found in cascara sagrada bark and other plants, is similar to other molecules that have been used for treating cancer, and one of its effects is to lower HIF: "Consistently, emodin attenuated the expression of cyclooxygenase 2 (COX-2), VEGF, hypoxia inducible factor 1 alpha (HIF-1!), MMP-1 and MMP-13 at mRNA level in IL-1" and LPS-treated synoviocytes under hypoxia" (Ha, et al., 2011). MMP-1 and MMP-13 are collagenase enzymes involved in metastasis. When cells are fully nourished, supplied with protective hormones, and properly illuminated, their ability to communicate should be able to govern their movements, preventing--and possibly reversing--metastatic migration."

Heart and hormones
"...Rhubarb and emodin (a chemical found in rhubarb and cascara) have been found to have heart protective actions. A considerable amount of research showed that vitamin K is effective for treating hypertension, but again, most doctors warn against its use, because of its reputation as a clot forming vitamin. Recently, the value of the "blood thinner" warfarin, a vitamin K antagonist, has been questioned for people with heart failure (An, et al., 2013; Lee, et al., 2013). There have been several recent warnings about the production of arrhythmia by drugs that increase serotonin's effects (e.g., Stillman, et al., 2013)."

Note: This product contains raw material(s) meant for external use only, in cosmetic or other formulations designed for such external use.

*******************************************************************************
Lapodin is a dietary supplement containing the napththoquinone beta-lapachone (β-lapachone) and the anthraquinone emodin. The name is a combination of the names beta-lapapachone and emodin. Both quinones have been the subject of hundreds of independent studies going back to the early 1900s, and are purported to have a powerful systemic effect on health, including boosting metabolism/respiration.

Serving size: 20 drops
Servings per container: about 30
Each serving contains the following ingredients:

Beta-lapachone - 5mg
Emodin - 20mg

Other ingredients: SFA esters, ethanol
*******************************************************************************

References:
1. Beta-lapachone / β-lapachone: Amazing Medicinal Properties Of Beta-lapachone (β-lapachone)
2. Emodin: Amazing Medicinal Properties Of Emodin

a) What is the safe dose range of beta-lapachone?

b) Do you think there are any synergetic effects between the two compounds that would merit concern about dosing and toxicity?

the reason I ask is because I wanted to try emodin for some specific effects---the anti-purinergic effects, and it merits doses of between 80-200 mg doses of emodin, but I don't wanna push those doses with lapodin if it means dangerous doses of beta-lapachone
 
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haidut

haidut

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a) What is the safe dose range of beta-lapachone?

b) Do you think there are any synergetic effects between the two compounds that would merit concern about dosing and toxicity?

the reason I ask is because I wanted to try emodin for some specific effects---the anti-purinergic effects, and it merits doses of between 80-200 mg doses of emodin, but I don't wanna push those doses with lapodin if it means dangerous doses of beta-lapachone

I don't think doses beyond 20mg-30mg emodin are needed. It can thin the blood too much (similar to aspirin) and it may speed bowel transit to the point that it would affect nutrient absorption. Peat keeps saying a "pinch of cascara" is enough and there is less than 20mg emodin in that pinch.
 
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Messages
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I don't think doses beyond 20mg-30mg emodin are needed. It can thin the blood too much (similar to aspirin) and it may speed bowel transit to the point that it would affect nutrient absorption. Peat keeps saying a "pinch of cascara" is enough and there is less than 20mg emodin in that pinch.
Do you think, with extra vitamin K, it could be ok to push it up to 80 mg? I've seen higher doses used in studies without severe adverse effects.

It would be something I would test infrequently, I'm not talking about regularly taking these doses. The point is to test antipurinergic activity (which only starts at 80 mg i think), because of naviaux's theories on antipurinergic therapy ... this is a lot safer than suramin I would think.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Do you think, with extra vitamin K, it could be ok to push it up to 80 mg? I've seen higher doses used in studies without severe adverse effects.

It would be something I would test infrequently, I'm not talking about regularly taking these doses. The point is to test antipurinergic activity (which only starts at 80 mg i think), because of naviaux's theories on antipurinergic therapy ... this is a lot safer than suramin I would think.

I already states what I think is reasonable.
 

docall18

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Hi just wanted to report that I also started to have burning followed by a red itchy rash with continued use (more than a few days) of lapodin but it is happening with the sfa preparation so maybe I am just sensitive to a component? It’s a shame because i think it was really helping me. I also have reproduced the rash so I am pretty sure it’s the lapodin and not something else. Any one else have this issue?

Ya me too, and the rash takes a week to go.

I am trying lapodin orally, but am bit concerned of possible irritation from that too. May just stick to cascara tea.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I tried lapodin orally. Got only mild effects on stomach, took full dose (20 drops). Had mild pain, some bloating. Experienced increased temps and slightly increased pulse. It was promising--was one of the first times since I've been sick that I've experienced stimulation but not in a stress hormone way. On the downside it didn't last that long--maybe an hour or so of peak effects?

gut still feels a little weird, upper gut especially. Did not take on empty stomach. Would've used transdermally but people had been reporting rashes.
 
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Another question, @haidut , is it normal for lapodin to have some particulate in it? In my lapodin, the oil itself is orangeish yellow and there are little orange flecks in it. I shook it a lot and I still have that. Will post pics soon
 
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haidut

haidut

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Another question, @haidut , is it normal for lapodin to have some particulate in it? In my lapodin, the oil itself is orangeish yellow and there are little orange flecks in it. I shook it a lot and I still have that. Will post pics soon

Yes, some may precipitate but the active ingredient is still in the liquid fraction.
 
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haidut

haidut

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I tried lapodin orally. Got only mild effects on stomach, took full dose (20 drops). Had mild pain, some bloating. Experienced increased temps and slightly increased pulse. It was promising--was one of the first times since I've been sick that I've experienced stimulation but not in a stress hormone way. On the downside it didn't last that long--maybe an hour or so of peak effects?

gut still feels a little weird, upper gut especially. Did not take on empty stomach. Would've used transdermally but people had been reporting rashes.

Half lives of emodin and beta lapachone are only about 1h - 1.5h so I would not expect it to last long but it should have longer lasting effects in terms of improved digestion.
 
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haidut

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What can precipitate if not the active ingredient?

The emodin we use is 95% pure and the remaining 5% are various emodin glycosides that are poorly soluble in ethanol/oil. Typically, these stay dissolved but when temps drop they can precipitate. The regular emodin should not precipitate unless the temps drop below 5 degrees Celsius.
 
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haidut

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given the half life and the blood thinning, how often is it safe to take lapodin (the stated dose)

I think 2-3 times weekly is probably enough for most people. Peat does not recommend taking cascara every day.
 

ddjd

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Peat has written many articles on the topic of quinones and their effects on metabolism / respiration. The earliest official work probably started around the time of William Koch in the early 20th century and continues to this day. Many people are familiar with the popular quinone CoQ10 but there are other ones Ray has written about over the years, including anthraquinones like emodin and napththoquinones like vitamin K. Vitamin K has recently been found to be able to server as an alternative electron carrier for the electron transport chain even in the complete absence of CoQ10, so its importance in metabolism is indisputable.
Another napththoquinone that William Koch worked with in his later life while exiled in Brasil was lapachone - found in the bark of the Lapacho tree (aka Pau D'Arco, Tabebuia avellanedae). Lapachone was intensively studies in the 1960s and 1970s as a treatment for cancer but interest waned as the genetic theory of cancer conquered academia and the medical profession.
Being quinones, both emodin and beta-lapachone are intimately involved in the proper functioning of the electron transport chain, the recycling of NADH back to NAD and protecting from the systemic effects of stress and aging. In addition to these metabolic / systemic effects, both quinones have been shown to have a staggering array of effects including protecting from radiation, hypoxia, inflammation, endotoxin, diabetes, cortisol, aldosterone, estrogen, prolactin, serotonin, histamine, nitric oxide (NO), carbon monoxide (CO) viruses, bacteria, fungi, and even the aging process in general. Given their profoundly systemic effects, it is very likely that these two quinones can contribute to improved well-being and resistance to stress, aging, and frailty. The full list of references on both substances is so large that I had to post them as separate threads, which can be found at the bottom of this thread in the References section. As a shorter alternative, below are a few quotes from Peat in regards to these amazing substances.

Cascara, energy, cancer and the FDA's laxative abuse.
"...Emodin inhibits the formation of nitric oxide, increases mitochondrial respiration, inhibits angiogenesis and invasiveness, inhibits fatty acid synthase (Zhang, et al., 2002), inhibits HER-2 neu and tyrosine phosphorylases (Zhang, et al., 1995, 1999), and promotes cellular differentiation in cancer cells (Zhang, et al., 1995). The anthraquinones, like other antiinflammatory substances, reduce leakage from blood vessels, but they also reduce the absorption of water from the intestine. Reduced water absorption can be seen in a slight shrinkage of cells in certain circumsstances, and is probably related to their promotion of cellular differentiation."

"...Zelnorm was said to “act like serotonin.” Serotonin slows metabolism, reduces oxygen consumption, and increases free radicals such as superoxide and nitric oxide;the production of reactive oxygen species is probably an essential part of its normal function. Emodin has an opposing effect, increasing the metabolic rate. It increases mitochondrial oxygen consumption and ATP synthesis, while decreasing oxidative damage (Du and Ko, 2005, 2006; Huang, et al., 1995)."

"...Emodin isn’t a magic bullet (in fact it isn’t a bullet/toxin of any sort), but when combined with all the other adaptogens, it does have a place in cancer therapy, as well as in treating many other ailments. None of the basic metaphors of mainstream medicine--receptors, lock-and-key, membrane pores and pumps--can account for the laxative, anticancer, cell-protective effects of emodin. The new interest in it provides an opportunity to continue to investigate the effects of adjusting the electrical state of the cell substance, building on the foundations created by William F. Koch, Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, and Gilbert Ling."

Cancer: Disorder and Energy

"...Emodin and the anthraquinones (and naphthoquinones, such as lapachone) weren’t the reagents that Koch considered the most powerful, but emodin can produce to some degree all of the effects that he believed could be achieved by correcting the cellular respiratory apparatus:Antiinflammatory, antifibrotic (Wang, et al., 2007) antiviral, antidepressant, heart protective, antioxidant, memory enhancing, anticancer, anxiolytic and possibly antipsychotic."

"...Emodin, an anti-inflammatory substance found in cascara sagrada bark and other plants, is similar to other molecules that have been used for treating cancer, and one of its effects is to lower HIF: "Consistently, emodin attenuated the expression of cyclooxygenase 2 (COX-2), VEGF, hypoxia inducible factor 1 alpha (HIF-1!), MMP-1 and MMP-13 at mRNA level in IL-1" and LPS-treated synoviocytes under hypoxia" (Ha, et al., 2011). MMP-1 and MMP-13 are collagenase enzymes involved in metastasis. When cells are fully nourished, supplied with protective hormones, and properly illuminated, their ability to communicate should be able to govern their movements, preventing--and possibly reversing--metastatic migration."

Heart and hormones
"...Rhubarb and emodin (a chemical found in rhubarb and cascara) have been found to have heart protective actions. A considerable amount of research showed that vitamin K is effective for treating hypertension, but again, most doctors warn against its use, because of its reputation as a clot forming vitamin. Recently, the value of the "blood thinner" warfarin, a vitamin K antagonist, has been questioned for people with heart failure (An, et al., 2013; Lee, et al., 2013). There have been several recent warnings about the production of arrhythmia by drugs that increase serotonin's effects (e.g., Stillman, et al., 2013)."

Note: This product contains raw material(s) meant for external use only, in cosmetic or other formulations designed for such external use.

*******************************************************************************
Lapodin is a dietary supplement containing the napththoquinone beta-lapachone (β-lapachone) and the anthraquinone emodin. The name is a combination of the names beta-lapapachone and emodin. Both quinones have been the subject of hundreds of independent studies going back to the early 1900s, and are purported to have a powerful systemic effect on health, including boosting metabolism/respiration.

Serving size: 20 drops
Servings per container: about 30
Each serving contains the following ingredients:

Beta-lapachone - 5mg
Emodin - 20mg

Other ingredients: SFA esters, ethanol
*******************************************************************************

References:
1. Beta-lapachone / β-lapachone: Amazing Medicinal Properties Of Beta-lapachone (β-lapachone)
2. Emodin: Amazing Medicinal Properties Of Emodin
Does beta lapachone have a similar effect to methylene blue of being able to remove nitric oxide from cytochrome c oxidase?
 

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