Lactoferrin Is Awesome

[tankasnowgod]

Iron DOES accumulate in the gut and the consequences are not pretty. Read iron toxicity posts on gotmag.org or the boog Iron the Most Toxic Metal by Jym Moon, PhD.

Interesting, I've read quite a bit about iron, but Jym Moon's book is the one I haven't read yet. I suspected that free iron (from supplements and fortification) were causing a slew of GI problems, as well as others throughout the body. Thomas Levy is the only person I've heard directly address the free iron/gut issue (in his "Iron and Gluten: The Toxic Tandem" presentation).

Are there any specific posts regarding iron accumulating in the gut? And any specific interventions?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Some of those Morley Robbins articles are interesting, but he can clearly miss the point. For example-

Iron Toxicity Post #53: You were NOT born with a “Red Light” deficiency!

I would agree. We aren't born with a "Red Light" deficiency. But that doesn't mean it's caused by "mineral imbalances." How Morley missed that fact that humans are the only species that wears clothing and spends the majority of our lives indoors, and doesn't get lot's of natural sunlight (including much red and infrared light) from the sun, just baffles me.

Obviously, our "Red Light" deficiency was induced.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Iron DOES accumulate in the gut and the consequences are not pretty. Read iron toxicity posts on gotmag.org or the boog Iron the Most Toxic Metal by Jym Moon, PhD.

Although Morley does recommend taking lactoferrin. Scrolldown in the ”Its the iron article. If u mean you recommend against it.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Douglas Ek: Yes, vitamin C would be helpful to mitigate oxidative stress induced by iron. Also its a source of copper (in the tyrosinase enzyme which is part of vitamin C) that helps regulate iron.

Yes I’m a heavy consumer of vitamin C but only from food. I get headaches from ascorbic acid. I drink at least 1 liter freshly squeezed orange juice everyday. I also consume loads of retinol. Take taurine. Supplement magnesium everyday. Now started with silica since there’s evidence it does increase copper and ceruloplasmin levels. And will take up boron aswell since it has the same effect. From what I understand you want high serum iron and lowish ferritin. I always had the problem to keep my serum iron high without having to keep my ferritin a bit higher. But it might be a problem solved by boosting ceruloplasmin as much as possible. Ill have to experiment and see how it goes. Gonna give the root cause protocol a shot long term.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Some of those Morley Robbins articles are interesting, but he can clearly miss the point. For example-

Iron Toxicity Post #53: You were NOT born with a “Red Light” deficiency!

I would agree. We aren't born with a "Red Light" deficiency. But that doesn't mean it's caused by "mineral imbalances." How Morley missed that fact that humans are the only species that wears clothing and spends the majority of our lives indoors, and doesn't get lot's of natural sunlight (including much red and infrared light) from the sun, just baffles me.

Obviously, our "Red Light" deficiency was induced.

Yes there’s some flaws in Morleys thinking. He seems quite anti calcium in general aswell. But he has quite a crowd and following. Probably more than ray peat. And i feel there’s still a lot of people here struggling with some aspects of their health. So I think Morley certainly is on to something. But time will tell. Eventually we will figure all of this out. And I think we aint that far away.

 

[magnesiumania]

Interesting, I've read quite a bit about iron, but Jym Moon's book is the one I haven't read yet. I suspected that free iron (from supplements and fortification) were causing a slew of GI problems, as well as others throughout the body. Thomas Levy is the only person I've heard directly address the free iron/gut issue (in his "Iron and Gluten: The Toxic Tandem" presentation).

Are there any specific posts regarding iron accumulating in the gut? And any specific interventions?

I will have to look for that and i dont have the time atm.

Levy is a friend of Morley

Jyms book is awsome. He discribe much of what Morley adress.

The only intervention i know of is Diatomatious Earth for specifically eliminating iron in the gut. Im not sure if Rice Bran/IP6 chelate iron in the gut.

 

[magnesiumania]

Yes there’s some flaws in Morleys thinking. He seems quite anti calcium in general aswell. But he has quite a crowd and following. Probably more than ray peat. And i feel there’s still a lot of people here struggling with some aspects of their health. So I think Morley certainly is on to something. But time will tell. Eventually we will figure all of this out. And I think we aint that far away.

Ray Peat seem to be more into "cheating" imo (ref aspirine methylene blue and other unnatural inventions). Im not saying they dont have value and im not against it but it defines his style which dont overall dont resonate too much with me. I love his insights but Morley definitly bring some important pieces to the table that others have overlooked. But honesly if anybody has gone to the Root it would be Jack Kruse. The science of light is far more valuable than nutrition imo.

Another main difference seem to be that Peat is obsessed with thyroid while Morley obsess about adrenals. And i tend to lean more to the adrenal approach. The adrenals make like 50 hormones while the thyroid makes 1? chronic adrenal stress disrupts the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis. Because thyroid hormone is directed by the hypothalamus and the pituitary glands, anything that disrupts the HPA axis will affect thyroid function.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Ray Peat seem to be more into "cheating" imo (ref aspirine methylene blue and other unnatural inventions). Im not saying they dont have value and im not against it but it defines his style which dont overall dont resonate too much with me. I love his insights but Morley definitly bring some important pieces to the table that others have overlooked. But honesly if anybody has gone to the Root it would be Jack Kruse. The science of light is far more valuable than nutrition imo.

Another main difference seem to be that Peat is obsessed with thyroid while Morley obsess about adrenals. And i tend to lean more to the adrenal approach. The adrenals make like 50 hormones while the thyroid makes 1? chronic adrenal stress disrupts the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis. Because thyroid hormone is directed by the hypothalamus and the pituitary glands, anything that disrupts the HPA axis will affect thyroid function.

Yes I agree 100% with you. Rays approach gives you a very fundamental explanation of the organism. We have certain hormones and nutrients we use as fuel and to function. But as you said ray is a bit of a cheater when it comes to other aspects like the body's homeostasis. It doesn't address the "root cause" like Morley is trying to do. If you're high iron take this and that to mask the symptoms. Don't question what the underlying cause might be. But you have to address the fact of nutrient homeostasis especially the minerals. Too much or too little of certain minerals equalls a bad time. The body goes by a set of rules to function. And I think a combination of Peat and Morley would be a great way to address most health problems. You need to focus on all health aspects. Because it's not just one cog in the machinery. I'm at the moment implementing more of Morleys protocol into my lifestyle as I previously had borderline low ceruloplasmin I know I've managed to raise it from 15 to 25 just by taking a bit of copper and bigger doses of retinol. But now with boron, taurine, and silica as they also are shown to boost it and Super Oxide Dismutase (higher copper function) even more. It's interesting that copper's involved in hair strength, color and skin elasticity + bone health. Silica is also touted to improve hair, skin, nails and bone right? Probably by boosting the function of copper in our diet. Boron also boosts bone strength and joint health like copper and silica. Interesting to see the results. Hopefully, from elevating my ceruloplasmin even more I eventually won't need to use iron supplements to feel ok anymore. We'll see how it goes

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Yes I agree 100% with you. Rays approach gives you a very fundamental explanation of the organism. We have certain hormones and nutrients we use as fuel and to function. But as you said ray is a bit of a cheater when it comes to other aspects like the body's homeostasis. It doesn't address the "root cause" like Morley is trying to do. If you're high iron take this and that to mask the symptoms. Don't question what the underlying cause might be. But you have to address the fact of nutrient homeostasis especially the minerals. Too much or too little of certain minerals equalls a bad time. The body goes by a set of rules to function. And I think a combination of Peat and Morley would be a great way to address most health problems. You need to focus on all health aspects. Because it's not just one cog in the machinery. I'm at the moment implementing more of Morleys protocol into my lifestyle as I previously had borderline low ceruloplasmin I know I've managed to raise it from 15 to 25 just by taking a bit of copper and bigger doses of retinol. But now with boron, taurine, and silica as they also are shown to boost it and Super Oxide Dismutase (higher copper function) even more. It's interesting that copper's involved in hair strength, color and skin elasticity + bone health. Silica is also touted to improve hair, skin, nails and bone right? Probably by boosting the function of copper in our diet. Boron also boosts bone strength and joint health like copper and silica. Interesting to see the results. Hopefully, from elevating my ceruloplasmin even more I eventually won't need to use iron supplements to feel ok anymore. We'll see how it goes

I had been on a routine with the same supps you just mentioned for close to a year, with some progress, the lactoferrin brought it all together! When I am in good health it feels like my body is singing, hard to describe, like all the parts are in harmony and that the cells are thanking me and sending out good vibrations, I’m getting glimpses of it again now and it is pretty exciting! Another sign I am getting is I look in the mirror and my resting face looks peaceful and happy, like my eyes are starting to glow again. There is a resting look of stress or calm I think in all mammals.

 

[Mauritio]

Yes I agree 100% with you. Rays approach gives you a very fundamental explanation of the organism. We have certain hormones and nutrients we use as fuel and to function. But as you said ray is a bit of a cheater when it comes to other aspects like the body's homeostasis. It doesn't address the "root cause" like Morley is trying to do. If you're high iron take this and that to mask the symptoms. Don't question what the underlying cause might be. But you have to address the fact of nutrient homeostasis especially the minerals. Too much or too little of certain minerals equalls a bad time. The body goes by a set of rules to function. And I think a combination of Peat and Morley would be a great way to address most health problems. You need to focus on all health aspects. Because it's not just one cog in the machinery. I'm at the moment implementing more of Morleys protocol into my lifestyle as I previously had borderline low ceruloplasmin I know I've managed to raise it from 15 to 25 just by taking a bit of copper and bigger doses of retinol. But now with boron, taurine, and silica as they also are shown to boost it and Super Oxide Dismutase (higher copper function) even more. It's interesting that copper's involved in hair strength, color and skin elasticity + bone health. Silica is also touted to improve hair, skin, nails and bone right? Probably by boosting the function of copper in our diet. Boron also boosts bone strength and joint health like copper and silica. Interesting to see the results. Hopefully, from elevating my ceruloplasmin even more I eventually won't need to use iron supplements to feel ok anymore. We'll see how it goes

Copper is needed together with Vitamin C for collagen synthesis. I am taking Copper 1 from Mito Synergy ,which is the best Copper Supplement in my opinion.
I think Morley might be right on some things esp. the minerals , but he sees Vitamin D Supplementation as one of the worst things one can do ! Tell that to Danny or RP ...
Also I think Peat does treat the underlying cause, taking thyroid lets your cells retain more Magnesium ,so you get higher Magnesium in the cells without even taking a supplement, that pretty root-causy I would say. Although I dont know if that applies to all minerals.
One thing that I dont like about Morley is his guru like attitude , one thing that always makes me suspicous...

 

[Mauritio]

I had been on a routine with the same supps you just mentioned for close to a year, with some progress, the lactoferrin brought it all together! When I am in good health it feels like my body is singing, hard to describe, like all the parts are in harmony and that the cells are thanking me and sending out good vibrations, I’m getting glimpses of it again now and it is pretty exciting! Another sign I am getting is I look in the mirror and my resting face looks peaceful and happy, like my eyes are starting to glow again. There is a resting look of stress or distress I think in all mammals.

Wow, you really make want to try this stuff

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Wow, you really make want to try this stuff

I am surprised it isn’t mentioned more often. There is a chance I am an extreme responder and that most people would not notice a lot. Reviews I have read on it are all pretty good looking, however that seems to be the norm on amazon for pretty much anything...

 

[Mauritio]

I am surprised it isn’t mentioned more often. There is a chance I am an extreme responder and that most people would not notice a lot. Reviews I have read on it are all pretty good looking, however that seems to be the norm on amazon for pretty much anything...

Yeah thinking of 5HTP or tryptophan reviews...

 

[Douglas Ek]

Copper is needed together with Vitamin C for collagen synthesis. I am taking Copper 1 from Mito Synergy ,which is the best Copper Supplement in my opinion.
I think Morley might be right on some things esp. the minerals , but he sees Vitamin D Supplementation as one of the worst things one can do ! Tell that to Danny or RP ...
Also I think Peat does treat the underlying cause, taking thyroid lets your cells retain more Magnesium ,so you get higher Magnesium in the cells without even taking a supplement, that pretty root-causy I would say. Although I dont know if that applies to all minerals.
One thing that I dont like about Morley is his guru like attitude , one thing that always makes me suspicous...

Too many people though who cant stop thyroid meds coz they go back to slow metabolism and feeling crap here. It's just a band aid. I live in scandinavia man. We have 3 months of good sun here. Rest of the year its dark and cloudy. during winter sun goes up around 11 and goes down 14 again and it's just on the horizon so even then you don't get any sun on your skin. I don't take vitamin D but do all the other stuff that promotes vitamin D and my vitamin D is on the higher end like that. If you eat high fat foods containing vitamin D combined with other co-factors like vitamin K, magnesium and boron I doubt vitamin D is even necessary. If I took vitamin D from supplements I probably get vitamin D overdose. But then again adequate levels of vitamin D is obviously necessary. I don't like to have to compare two guys against each other and have to choose. CHOOSE RAY OR MORLEY. Nah man I'd like to research and see what seems logical. I don't find any logical sense in that vitamin D should be as bad as Morley says but I do find sense in the whole iron copper thing he talks about. So then I pick that info up. Why can't you be allowed to like the ideas of two people at the same time? Some die-hard ray peat crap that all other people are wrong. That's just being ignorant. But yes there are things with Morley I don't agree with and his attitude I don't like but people tend to like that out loud guru stuff. That's why peat has a hard time getting mainstream he doesn't care about it. He just wanna chill at home paint naked women LOL. Morley wants to be famous probably. Anyway I all I do is research and listen to peoples ideas I'm not trying to judge or compare. I think peat is fantastic and some of the stuff Morley argues about makes sense. I remember when I first found peat and started to adopt his ideas. I was like straight away a light bulb in my head got turned on like wow biology and nutrition makes sense for once. Instead of searching the internet of bull crap articles just blatantly pull stuff out of thin air with no scientific research to back it up. Ray's work on hormones, glucose metabolism, cellular respiration, and PUFA is genius stuff and I give him all the credit in the world for that. But there are some things he says I can't seem to wrap my mind around. Time will tell.

 

[Mauritio]

Too many people though who cant stop thyroid meds coz they go back to slow metabolism and feeling crap here. It's just a band aid. I live in scandinavia man. We have 3 months of good sun here. Rest of the year its dark and cloudy. during winter sun goes up around 11 and goes down 14 again and it's just on the horizon so even then you don't get any sun on your skin. I don't take vitamin D but do all the other stuff that promotes vitamin D and my vitamin D is on the higher end like that. If you eat high fat foods containing vitamin D combined with other co-factors like vitamin K, magnesium and boron I doubt vitamin D is even necessary. If I took vitamin D from supplements I probably get vitamin D overdose. But then again adequate levels of vitamin D is obviously necessary. I don't like to have to compare two guys against each other and have to choose. CHOOSE RAY OR MORLEY. Nah man I'd like to research and see what seems logical. I don't find any logical sense in that vitamin D should be as bad as Morley says but I do find sense in the whole iron copper thing he talks about. So then I pick that info up. Why can't you be allowed to like the ideas of two people at the same time? Some die-hard ray peat crap that all other people are wrong. That's just being ignorant. But yes there are things with Morley I don't agree with and his attitude I don't like but people tend to like that out loud guru stuff. That's why peat has a hard time getting mainstream he doesn't care about it. He just wanna chill at home paint naked women LOL. Morley wants to be famous probably. Anyway I all I do is research and listen to peoples ideas I'm not trying to judge or compare. I think peat is fantastic and some of the stuff Morley argues about makes sense. I remember when I first found peat and started to adopt his ideas. I was like straight away a light bulb in my head got turned on like wow biology and nutrition makes sense for once. Instead of searching the internet of bull crap articles just blatantly pull stuff out of thin air with no scientific research to back it up. Ray's work on hormones, glucose metabolism, cellular respiration, and PUFA is genius stuff and I give him all the credit in the world for that. But there are some things he says I can't seem to wrap my mind around. Time will tell.

Yes incorporting other stuff IS good , there are things that synergize really well with Peatdom...

 

[Captain_Coconut]

In academia everyone wants to be remembered for having some special key contributions. It is a kind of existential urge to hang one’s hat on an idea, to center around a certain idea as one's legacy. This existential urge sadly makes for a lot of bias, most are very reluctant to abandon one’s ‘key contribution’. I think all the expert types we refer to on this forum are guilty of this, and that is why it is important for us to listen to multiple sources. We don’t need to hang our hat on some idea to be remembered by or struggle to look really smart to others, we just need to get healthy.

 

[Makrosky]

I had been on a routine with the same supps you just mentioned for close to a year, with some progress, the lactoferrin brought it all together! When I am in good health it feels like my body is singing, hard to describe, like all the parts are in harmony and that the cells are thanking me and sending out good vibrations, I’m getting glimpses of it again now and it is pretty exciting! Another sign I am getting is I look in the mirror and my resting face looks peaceful and happy, like my eyes are starting to glow again. There is a resting look of stress or calm I think in all mammals.

Hmmm I suspect it is improving your endotoxin load/immune system more than iron issues. What you say reminds me to times I suspect I had a cleaner gut (ie antibiotic use).

Would you summarize what are you currently taking ?

After reading the large ammount of things you have tried or are trying I am lost LOL.

You still use the electrolytes, CAL/MAG, the limonene, the iodine, etc. ??

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Hmmm I suspect it is improving your endotoxin load/immune system more than iron issues. What you say reminds me to times I suspect I had a cleaner gut (ie antibiotic use).

Would you summarize what are you currently taking ?

After reading the large ammount of things you have tried or are trying I am lost LOL.

You still use the electrolytes, CAL/MAG, the limonene, the iodine, etc. ??

Yes I still use all of those. I have a spreadsheet that has my routine that I usually follow. I will post later. I have put routine on pause while I take this first round of lactoferrin because I responded so well to it I wanted to be able to assess its effects better without questioning if it is some other supplement.

 

[magnesiumania]

Copper is needed together with Vitamin C for collagen synthesis. I am taking Copper 1 from Mito Synergy ,which is the best Copper Supplement in my opinion.
I think Morley might be right on some things esp. the minerals , but he sees Vitamin D Supplementation as one of the worst things one can do ! Tell that to Danny or RP ...
Also I think Peat does treat the underlying cause, taking thyroid lets your cells retain more Magnesium ,so you get higher Magnesium in the cells without even taking a supplement, that pretty root-causy I would say. Although I dont know if that applies to all minerals.
One thing that I dont like about Morley is his guru like attitude , one thing that always makes me suspicous...

I dont think Morley has a guru attitude. Not any more than what is deserved. Theres a reason people become teachers (and yes there could also be a horrible reason) but if you really want to help people on a large scale you kinda have to promote yourself, but Morley does this in an honest clean way imo.

About vitamin D supplements the idea is that they kill retinol in the liver. Vit A and D are linked and need to be in the correct ratio in our livers. It also deplete magnesium (as its needed for every step in D metabolism). Well yes taking more magnesium would help but its just less important than vit D. Further it crashes potassium and ceruloplasmin, increases H202 and lowers ATP. I really dont know what is most important but Morley seem to have even more integrity than Peat as all of his pieces fit so perfectly together.

I think the truth may lie in the middle tho. I really respect Carolyn Dean (who disagree with Morley on many points) and she does recommend D-supplementation, jsut not the insane drug-dose madness. A reasonable amout when living in a sun-deprived place should be appropriate. However D-deficiency is more often a symptom of mag deficiency and lack of boron.

 

[Blossom]

We don’t need to hang our hat on some idea to be remembered by or struggle to look really smart to others, we just need to get healthy.

So true.