Lactic Acid (lactate) Triggers Stress Response In The Brain

Discussion in 'Mind, Sleep, Stress' started by haidut, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    The article tries to spin it in a positive light - i.e. that releasing adrenaline in the brain is beneficial. However we care about the direct message itself - adrenaline/noradrenaline are stress hormones and lactic acid triggers their release in the brain. This is likely harmful if experienced chronically.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 021014.php
     
  2. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    Wow, what a mixed up world we live in. The sad thing is that most people believe this because we as a society have no coherent view of life and the processes that support it. Every time I read something like this I am grateful I found Peat's work. I'm much less confused in comparison to most despite my mere "applied science" background!
     
  3. Ben

    Ben Member

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    They think that lactic acid is fundamental or important because norepinephrine is important.

    "Researchers at the University of Bristol and University College London found that lactate – essentially lactic acid – causes cells in the brain to release more noradrenaline (norepinephrine in US English), a hormone and neurotransmitter which is fundamental for brain function. Without it people can hardly wake up or focus on anything."

    Man, I think the best lesson would be to feed the author lactic acid. Mainstream science is still very visibly confused. If lactic acid makes muscle sore and hurt, then what does it do to the brain? Author would become silent upon such a question. "Eureka, I learned that lactic acid is bad!"
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br


    I had to fight nurses in the hospital when my wife was in labor b/c they tried to put her on "Ringer Lactate" (RL) IV so that "she has more energy" during labor. When I pressed the doctor about how lactic acid is metabolized and what that does to the glycogen in the liver she just looked at me confused and said something along the lines "yeah lactate depletes glycogen...but then it itself will be converted to glycogen...but...but...but...that means there will be less glycogen than we started with, so lactate appears to be...BAD?!? Wow, but...but...but...in medical school I learned that this is standard procedure, there must be a reason for using RL, right? Right???". Then she quickly proceeded to switch the bag of RL with a bag of hypertonic saline that I had asked for. Then the doctor walked away with this mixed expression of deep thought and doubt that we have when some of our most strongly held belief are challenged. The next day I saw her in the hallway and we had a brief chat. Apparently she went back to her notes from medical school and also checked with some colleagues on why RL is used when it appears to be a metabolic burden. The response she got was "why do you care? it's standard procedure and that's where it ends". But I could see that she was bothered, and she told me that going forward none of the patients on her shift will be getting RL. She did say that she expects to hear from Billing, who track every medical supply used. Since RL is way more expensive to the patient than saline, she said she would be questioned about why she is not using the expensive product.
    Most doctors are not like her though, and would have either fought more with me or just ignored me as one of those annoying patients everyone gets and then go right back to using RL as soon as we are discharged.
    Moral of the story - you have the right (and even the obligation) to question every "procedure" that may be followed in your "best interest" by a doctor. If you don't do that and end up somehow injured, you can't do anything about it b/c you can't sue for unsuccessful treatment that is based on standard procedure. The court always sides with the doctor, and even in the cases of clear malpractice courts usually take it easy on doctors unless this is serial behavior and you are not the only victim. So, learn to stand up for your rights when you see a doctor!
     
  5. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    Imagine that. :?
     
  6. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    You got (very) lucky, and found a nurse and doctor willing to question the status quo; in which country was this hospital, if i may question ?
     
  7. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    Those who would like to protect themselves as much as possible from the medical establishment should carry a drug allergy card. If for some unfortunate reason one ends up in the hospital some damage could be avoided by listing things such as lactated ringers as an allergy. It will at least increase your chances of getting out in the best possible shape.
     
  8. Ben

    Ben Member

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    Would you elaborate about how to obtain drug allergy cards? I don't think most people are familiar with them.
     
  9. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br


    It was in the US. Obviously they tried to play "bad cop" first and sort of just put her on RL and had at least 5 people walk in the room to "assist". This creates a confusion for the patient and distracts them from what's going on. Out of those 5 people 3 were med students and I promptly kicked them out of the room citing HIPAA rules that the patient has a choice of who is present in the room if that person has no direct role in the medical procedures. That got the situation tense, but once I was left only with the doctor and the nurse, I went on the offensive and asked about the IV solution. They said it's standard procedure but did not try too hard to avoid stating that it is RL. Then I questioned the rationale of giving lactate to a patient already in distress and said something along the lines that lactate is a known metabolic burden and can cause seizures in certain patients with low blood sugar. That last part got the doctor's interest and she asked me to elaborate. So I told her what I know about lactate depleting glycogen and after some confusion on the doctor's end I think she bought at least some of it b/c she quickly switched the RL with hypertonic saline and glucose as I had requested.
    Maybe I was lucky, but I come from a country that has zero respect for or fear of authority and I have been told that I exude that attitude. That can obviously create problems sometimes, so I try to be selective in picking my battles:):
    The morale for me is to try stay as healthy as possible so that i don't have to go to hospitals and resort to such tactics.
     
  10. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    Some people carry a list of medications and allergies with them in their wallets. It's nothing official you have to get from somewhere in particular. I think for those of us fairly healthy it's not a big deal but you could record things like lactated ringers or anything you would like to make sure you do not end up getting if you are unconscious for example. Telling a loved one like a spouse/partner, parent or child and giving them the information could also be helpful. Example:Blossom's drug allergies 1. Lactate ringers ( causes hives) 2. SSRI's ( dizziness and nausea) 3. PPI's proton pump inhibitors ( muscle weakness) 4. Statin's ( liver problems and muscle wasting). One could simply review the side effects of any drug they wish to avoid to get an idea of an adverse reaction to use as your 'allergy'. This is not really always an allergy but medical personnel will usually not give a drug if it has caused an adverse reaction in the past, if they are made aware. The adverse reactions are typically grouped in with drug allergies. We have to find creative ways to protect ourselves when involved with the medical field.
     
  11. Ben

    Ben Member

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    So when you are taken to the ER, they check your wallet?
     
  12. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    Maybe a medic alert type necklace thing would be best for this. At least it could alert them to check your wallet or wherever you have the information pertaining to your allergies.
     
  13. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Re: Lactic acid (lactate) triggers stress response in the br

    First responders such as paramedics normally search for identification in a wallet if the person is unable to communicate and there is no one available to give information. Having this information near identification can increase the chances you would not receive any medication you are 'allergic' to. It's not fool proof and there are no guarantees but it can't hurt and possibly could help.
     
  14. Momado965

    Momado965 Member

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    Holy sht! I had to surgeries this year. How long do you think my recovery will take if I were consistent on using white sugar, red light, b1 and taurine?
     
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