Lack of serotonin makes one immune to depression

[haidut]

Not sure why this is not hitting the news everywhere, but I find it particularly telling as to whether serotonin is good of bad for depression.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Don ... ehavioral_
Phenotype/links/5411a2ba0cf2b4da1bec5e20.pdf
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 111946.htm

"...New evidence puts into doubt the long-standing belief that a deficiency in serotonin -- a chemical messenger in the brain -- plays a central role in depression. Scientists report that mice lacking the ability to make serotonin in their brains (and thus should have been 'depressed' by conventional wisdom) did not show depression-like symptoms."

 

[RPDiciple]

doesnt some of the psycedelics deplete serotonin? i know i heard DMT did it and people where afraid of that it was bad :p guess it was the opposite

 

[Such_Saturation]

But did they try to make them depressed or did they just test for depression? I think this part was the best While TPH2-/- mice as a group were not responsive to SSRIs, a subset responded to treatment with SSRIs in the same manner as wild-type controls

 

[haidut]

But did they try to make them depressed or did they just test for depression? I think this part was the best While TPH2-/- mice as a group were not responsive to SSRIs, a subset responded to treatment with SSRIs in the same manner as wild-type controls

So, I have attached the actual study. They did use chronic unpredictable mild stress (CUMS), which I think is a way to try to make the mice depressed. That did not work, so I think it suggests the mice were resistant to depression induction. Also, I like this line form the study:
"...We did not test TPH2−/− mice on the repeated social defeat stress test of depression because their extreme aggressiveness23,29 prevents social defeat by other mice."

You posted a study showing that high serotonin reverses dominant social status. I think this line above is the inverse of your study's findings. Namely, this study found that low serotonin = high/dominant social status. I guess we should all start to pop anti-serotonin pills now and become so dominant and aggressive that nobody dares approach us and talk crap about Peat's ideas

 

[answersfound]

Is there a certain level of serotonin in the blood that you would consider to be optimal?

I've taken cyproheptadine many times over the past couple years and don't feel any significant changes in my temperament. I guess I still have other metabolic issues I need to adress.

 

[haidut]

Is there a certain level of serotonin in the blood that you would consider to be optimal?

Probably some levels are necessary to ensure intestinal motility and platelet aggregation. But I am just guessing, and I am not aware of any research on the minimum or optimal amounts of serotonin in the body. The topic is sort of taboo, since serotonin is the darling of the pharma industry so most researchers won't touch it. However, the fact that tryptophan (serotonin raw material) is the rarest of all amino acids in human foods tells you something about how much serotonin you need - i.e. very little.

 

[Such_Saturation]

But did they try to make them depressed or did they just test for depression? I think this part was the best While TPH2-/- mice as a group were not responsive to SSRIs, a subset responded to treatment with SSRIs in the same manner as wild-type controls

So, I have attached the actual study. They did use chronic unpredictable mild stress (CUMS), which I think is a way to try to make the mice depressed. That did not work, so I think it suggests the mice were resistant to depression induction. Also, I like this line form the study:
"...We did not test TPH2−/− mice on the repeated social defeat stress test of depression because their extreme aggressiveness23,29 prevents social defeat by other mice."

You posted a study showing that high serotonin reverses dominant social status. I think this line above is the inverse of your study's findings. Namely, this study found that low serotonin = high/dominant social status. I guess we should all start to pop anti-serotonin pills now and become so dominant and aggressive that nobody dares approach us and talk crap about Peat's ideas

I bet that kind of mouse would be outlawed quickly.