L-Carnosine, A Strong-worded Caution From An Expert. Wow!

Discussion in 'Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by TreasureVibe, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. TreasureVibe

    TreasureVibe Member

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    I bought some zinc carnosine since it apparently is prescribed by doctors in Japan since 1994 for gastritis and GERD, but I came across this website, written by a serious orthomolecular expert judging from his CV and track record, Dr. E.K. Schandl. His website has been down for a while now but it can be traced back through the Wayback machine. Here is what his website said on L-Carnosine:



    Link: L-Carnosine Warning - from American Metabolic Laboratories - Health Warnings! home of the original CAProfile, Longevity Profile, HE Profile, SHE Profile and many others!

    Here his track record can be found, it is quite impressive:

    Dr. Schandl

    He himself has a PhD, and has a very impressive background. Judging from his credentials alone, I would believe anything he would say surrounding his field of knowledge. He also uses a huge sum of supplements daily, and has a black belt in Karate, and is a senior champion Karate in South Florida.

    So what are your thoughts on this warning of his surrounding L-Carnosine?
     
  2. lollipop

    lollipop Guest

    I am no expert, but I have heard L-Carnosine is toxic.

    His work and reasoning seem legit.
     
  3. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    An autosomal recessive trait is a big deal...like Huntingtons or Cystic Fibrosis. You would know in infancy actually: "Symptoms that begin during infancy may include drowsiness, seizures that may be accompanied by involuntary jerking muscle movements of the arms, legs, or head (myoclonic seizures)". Carnosinemia from genetics seems extremely rare.

    As far as consuming Carnosine and developing Carnosinemia...well I think you would need some examples of people developing severe neurological disorders from taking this supplement, and I have never seen anything like that happen. Do you have any examples? Perhaps you could get some short term effects from consuming massive amounts of Carnosine...but presumably it would slowly metabolize and leave the body...in other words I do not think you can break your carnosinase enzyme.

    Just found that the LD50 in mice for carnosine is 14.93g/kg...that is super high: http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923324

    The fact that he brings up aspartame is a red flag to me...aspartame is a devil well known by the health community, and trying to put carnosine in that category seems disingenuous when they are completely different chemicals. "Paint with linseed oil in it is toxic...did you know the soviet union used paint with linseed oil? They killed millions of people!" Bad logic

    For the record I have never tried carnosine.
     
  4. OP
    TreasureVibe

    TreasureVibe Member

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    Thanks, well yeah that is the weird thing, this guy seems like he is tremendously knowledgeable on the subject, yet he gives no proper foundation as to why l-carnosine is toxic, other than suggestion. I can understand that l-carnosine could be labeled under the group of bad amino acids as Dr. Peat coined, but well, is l-carnosine a bad amino acid? Perhaps Dr. Schandl is hinting at a possibility that genetical carnosinemia is not that rare as is thought? I am really confused here.

    Thank you for your reply, could you tell me where you have heard L-carnosine is toxic?

    Edit: basically according to this post from another thread:

    The carnosinase enzyme saturates at 1 gram of L-carnosine. So any dosage past that could induce carnosinemia, or free floating L-carnosine in the blood if we were to interpret the word by it's actual meaning like Dr. Schandl does. Carnosinemia is associated with the degenerative diseases he named. You actually get around 200 mg of L-carnosine atleast if you eat meat with dinner, so your safety level would be around 800 mg of L-carnosine before risking full saturation of the enzyme. So an actual supplement of L-carnosine of 1000 mg could potentially cause carnosinemia, especially when taken daily. I still wonder why then Dr. Schandl completely avoids any L-carnosine supplementation, perhaps because the de-saturation of the carnosinase enzyme takes longer than we know? Because theoretically any supplement containing L-carnosine below 800 mg would be safe, unless the period the carnosinase enzyme stays saturated is longer. Strangely enough, all over the internet it is touted for it's safety and beneficiary effects for your health.

    It is interesting, I wonder what Dr. Peat would have to say about L-carnosine.
     
  5. lollipop

    lollipop Guest

    Wish I could. In my earlier athletic days, my bike racing boyfriend was taking to increase his speed and strength. Then he began reading and hearing that it wasn’t as good for you as promoted.

    This guy seems to like it with references. Might be interesting to look into more research.

    L-Carnosine: Still the Best for Anti-Aging
     
  6. OP
    TreasureVibe

    TreasureVibe Member

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    Hmm, it seems like it used to be common knowledge too for advocates of L-carnosine to take dosages of around 1500 mg to let L-carnosine slip through the carnosinase enzyme. And here is where Dr. Schandl raises worry, as he basically makes a case that carnosinemia is just what the word means, (excess) carnosine in the blood. As a genetic disease it is understandably more devastating since there is virtually no conversion, but when invoked in this way, it might be just as damaging to the body. Which, is contradictive to what health promoters like the guy in that link says. Also I have read in another thread that beta-alanine also raises carnosine levels in the body. All carnosine below the 1000 mg threshold will be converted to beta alanine, so an excess of carnosine with high doses can be achieved faster than thought, if the carnosine that gets raised by beta alanine gets in the blood somehow. Suddenly it becomes clear as to why supplemental induced carnosinemia is not far away from a reality and I understand a bit better now where Dr. Schandl is coming from, if my reasoning is scientifically correct. However I can assume that in the quantity of my Dr's Best supplement, 59 mg of L-carnosine per pill, it could be deemed safe. Yet since the carnosinase enzyme apparently has a saturation point, I still worry, since I don't know much about the carnosinase enzyme's synthase and function yet and it's quite alot of literature. Yet, if you tolerate meat, you should presumably be fine, although a supplemental form of L-carnosine is possibly not the same as that from a food source. It's annoying, because I had high hopes for this supplement but I don't want to risk any major degenerative ailments..

    Interesting yet hard to understand!
     
  7. lollipop

    lollipop Guest

    Really appreciating your reasoning. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
     
  8. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    Is Dr. Schandl a card carrying vegetarian? Many vegetarians thrive on any science that implies something in a meat eating diet is problematic. I would rather hear what Dr. Peat, or a meat eating expert has to say about carnosine, to eliminate any bias or agenda. I keep an open mind since many isolated amino acids can be problems when taken as supplements.
     
  9. Anders86

    Anders86 Member

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    I guess Beta Alanine would be fine?
     
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