L-Carnitine Is Anti-thyroid

[ddjd]

One good thing about Carnitine, it reduces synthesis of Nitric Oxide:

"Our results showed that treatment with L-carnitine suppressed nitric oxide production"

Creatine activates airway epithelium in asthma. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[rei]

It is, like most things, not good or bad. But situation dependent. If you are trying to lose weight you want to push the body towards fatty acid metabolism and in such a situation carnitine can be good. Then again if your body is used to running mainly on carbs and you are not trying to lose weight then a large dose of carnitine can cause strong unpleasant reactions, starting with cold extremities and everything else you could expect when starting a fast and forcing the body towards fatty acid energy source.

 

[Douglas Ek]

What about these studies?

Carnitine versus androgen administration in the treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue associated with male aging. - PubMed - NCBI
Evidence for a positive association between serum carnitine and free testosterone levels in uremic men with hemodialysis. - PubMed - NCBI
L-carnitine protects against testicular dysfunction caused by gamma irradiation in mice. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of L-carnitine and L-acetyl-carnitine on testicular sperm motility and chromatin quality
Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine. - PubMed - NCBI
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16169400

Theres a lot more studies on carnitines effect on sperm parameters and also testosterone receptors and testosterone. If it increases all sperm parameters its probably due to increase in the androgen receptors and sensitivity? Ive only seen benefits when ive taken it.

Wouldnt it be food on a high saturated fat diet to push that fat towards testosterone synthesis or at least in the sense of some saturated fats like palmitic acids positive boosting effect on testosterone and cells. Thinking carnitine and gonadin if carnitine could boost the fatty acids effects or basically any other fat soulable fatty acid pushing it into cells

 

[RWilly]

Studies reveal role of red meat in gut bacteria, heart disease development
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-12-reveal-role-red-meat-gut.html

"In another study, published today in the Journal of Clinical Investigation, Dr. Hazen and his research team revealed a potential new target for preventing cardiovascular disease by drilling deeper into a gut microbial pathway that converts carnitine into TMAO.

The researchers found that carnitine—a nutrient abundant in red meat and some energy drinks and supplements—is converted to TMAO in the gut through a two-step process facilitated by distinct gut bacteria. The team discovered that the first step is similar in both omnivores (meat eaters) and vegans/vegetarians. But in the second part, the formation of TMAO is significantly enhanced in omnivores. Researchers then went on to show that a daily carnitine supplement can induce TMAO production, even for vegans and vegetarians who continue eating their normal diets. Earlier this year, Dr. Hazen and his team published a study showing how researchers had designed a potential new class of drugs for prevention of heart disease and clotting risk by interrupting the microbial pathway by which choline is converted into TMAO.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Studies reveal role of red meat in gut bacteria, heart disease development
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-12-reveal-role-red-meat-gut.html

"In another study, published today in the Journal of Clinical Investigation, Dr. Hazen and his research team revealed a potential new target for preventing cardiovascular disease by drilling deeper into a gut microbial pathway that converts carnitine into TMAO.

The researchers found that carnitine—a nutrient abundant in red meat and some energy drinks and supplements—is converted to TMAO in the gut through a two-step process facilitated by distinct gut bacteria. The team discovered that the first step is similar in both omnivores (meat eaters) and vegans/vegetarians. But in the second part, the formation of TMAO is significantly enhanced in omnivores. Researchers then went on to show that a daily carnitine supplement can induce TMAO production, even for vegans and vegetarians who continue eating their normal diets. Earlier this year, Dr. Hazen and his team published a study showing how researchers had designed a potential new class of drugs for prevention of heart disease and clotting risk by interrupting the microbial pathway by which choline is converted into TMAO.

Well if you dont eat meat then youll eat fish which is a larger source of TMAO. If you go vegan you eat a lot of PUFA. So best option is still tp eat meat. And I don’t buy TMAO danger anyway.

 

[High_Prob]

What about these studies?

Carnitine versus androgen administration in the treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue associated with male aging. - PubMed - NCBI
Evidence for a positive association between serum carnitine and free testosterone levels in uremic men with hemodialysis. - PubMed - NCBI
L-carnitine protects against testicular dysfunction caused by gamma irradiation in mice. - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of L-carnitine and L-acetyl-carnitine on testicular sperm motility and chromatin quality
Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine. - PubMed - NCBI
Placebo-controlled double-blind randomized trial on the use of L-carnitine, L-acetylcarnitine, or combined L-carnitine and L-acetylcarnitine in men... - PubMed - NCBI

Theres a lot more studies on carnitines effect on sperm parameters and also testosterone receptors and testosterone. If it increases all sperm parameters its probably due to increase in the androgen receptors and sensitivity? Ive only seen benefits when ive taken it.

Wouldnt it be food on a high saturated fat diet to push that fat towards testosterone synthesis or at least in the sense of some saturated fats like palmitic acids positive boosting effect on testosterone and cells. Thinking carnitine and gonadin if carnitine could boost the fatty acids effects or basically any other fat soulable fatty acid pushing it into cells

This is really interesting. Can anyone add any insight into what is going on here (Carnitines effects on Androgens)?

 

[Repas du soir]

Why does it increase DHT (if the studies are correct)?

 

[High_Prob]

I think most people here would say that it increases androgens due to a stress response or something....

 

[agnostic]

My 5 year old son is taking sodium valproate for seizures, which is known to inhibit carnitine production and can lead to carnitine deficiency at higher dosages leading to hyperammonemia. It is standard practise to give l-carnitine if hyperammonemia under valproic acid occurs. Do you think it would be wise to supplement a small amount of l-carnitine with valproic acid as a precautionary measure to prevent deficiency?

It should not increase the risk for seizures according to this review:
Levocarnitine induced seizures in patients on valproic acid: A negative systematic review. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[No_Energy]

Effect of alpha-lipoic acid on the peripheral conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and on serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels. - PubMed - NCBI[/URL]

These results demonstrate that LA interferes with the production of T3 from T4 when it is co-administered with T4. The elevated level of T3, after T4 administration, is reduced by treatment with LA.

I only mentioned lipoic acid b/c the website FPS has it listed as a "promoter of efficient metabolism". Look at the first chart in this link:
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/1 ... ow-charts/

Personally, I am not taking it and have not read anything on Peat's opinion of it.

All I could find on Ray's opinion on Alpha Lipoic Acid was a brief mention on the Mitochondria/Mortality article, "Therapeutically, even powerful toxins that block the glycolytic enzymes can improve functions in a variety of organic disturbances "associated with" (caused by) excessive production of lactic acid. Unfortunately, the toxin that has become standard treatment for lactic acidosis—dichloroacetic acid—is a carcinogen, and eventually produces liver damage and acidosis. But several nontoxic therapies can do the same things: Palmitate (formed from sugar under the influence of thyroid hormone, and found in coconut oil), vitamin Bl, biotin, lipoic acid, carbon dioxide, thyroid, naloxone, acetazolamide, for example."

Would be nice to know more of his views on it.

 

[Sativa]

So drinking a 16oz container of egg whites a day can achieve about the same (a carton of liquid pasteurized egg whites that I can buy from Safeway, Whole Foods, or Harris Teeter is equivalent to about 12 eggs)

Considering the amount of lectins found in the egg white, which hold a seeming 'defensive role' within the egg, it might be undesirable to consume such a large amount of egg white, especially in the context of ensuring 'digestive tract coherence'.

 

[Peater Pan]

Is there a recommended dose of L-carnitine to mitigate temporary hyper symptoms?

 

[TheBeastPanda]

This study discusses the well-known effect of thyroid hormone on mitochondrial biogenesis, so nothing new really except the reference to the activities of the amino acid L-Carnitine on thyroid hormone uptake:

Thyroid hormone effect on human mitochondria measured by flow cytometry - PubMed

"...Also, the effect of TRIAC (a stimulator of thyroid hormone nuclear receptors) and L-Carnitine (an inhibitor of thyroid hormone passage into the nucleus) was examined."

After seeing this, I immediately remembered Ray's articles on the beneficial effects of various "carnitine antagonists", especially the drug called Mildronate. Since L-Carnitine is found in very large quantities in meat but much smaller in milk, this may be another reason why Ray favors milk and seafood to meat. Here is more info from the Wikipedia page confirming L-Carnitine's anti-thyroid activity:

Carnitine - Wikipedia

"...A 2004 study found that L-carnitine acts as a peripheral antagonist of thyroid hormone action. In particular, L-carnitine inhibits both triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) entry into the cell nuclei."

And here is the study describing in more detail the effects of L-Carnitine:
Effects of carnitine on thyroid hormone action - PubMed

Note that raising thyroid activity will help deplete the cells of L-Carnitine:
"...Since hyperthyroidism impoverishes the tissue deposits of carnitine, there is a rationale for using L-carnitine at least in certain clinical settings."

After reading through all of this I find it hard to believe that L-Carnitine is not only freely sold as a single dietary supplement, but is currently all the rage in Paleo circles for "fat loss" and "boosting energy".

Wow this is eye opening

Whats pro thyroid and anti fat loss? Bad hardened fat loss and cellulite?

 

[Dr. B]

It is, like most things, not good or bad. But situation dependent. If you are trying to lose weight you want to push the body towards fatty acid metabolism and in such a situation carnitine can be good. Then again if your body is used to running mainly on carbs and you are not trying to lose weight then a large dose of carnitine can cause strong unpleasant reactions, starting with cold extremities and everything else you could expect when starting a fast and forcing the body towards fatty acid energy source.

Doesnt this fatty acid metabolism actually cause weight gain? Diabetes obesity etc have excessive fatty acid oxidation? Its fine when its muscles burning fats, or if you do excessive cardio to burn fat, but otherwise its a stressful way to burn it?
Also a faster metabolism will oxidize more of everything wouldnt it… like caffeine or thyroid do.

All I could find on Ray's opinion on Alpha Lipoic Acid was a brief mention on the Mitochondria/Mortality article, "Therapeutically, even powerful toxins that block the glycolytic enzymes can improve functions in a variety of organic disturbances "associated with" (caused by) excessive production of lactic acid. Unfortunately, the toxin that has become standard treatment for lactic acidosis—dichloroacetic acid—is a carcinogen, and eventually produces liver damage and acidosis. But several nontoxic therapies can do the same things: Palmitate (formed from sugar under the influence of thyroid hormone, and found in coconut oil), vitamin Bl, biotin, lipoic acid, carbon dioxide, thyroid, naloxone, acetazolamide, for example."

Would be nice to know more of his views on it.

Dont know if you have tested biotin but it has insane effects … all kinds of reviews on it causing severe acne or oily skin or blackheads etc… i had the same experience with it even when i tried it at 17… some sites say its what it does with keratin that leads to increased acne and clogged pores?

Anyway imo its one of the most annoying supplements to use. If you take it with enough pantothenic acid, it wont cause acne but then youll have to deal with whatever issues the pantothenic acid bring with it. The ratio was i think 10mg pantothenic acid per 30mcg or 300mcg biotin… something like that maybe 600mg pantothenic acid per 3000mcg biotin like in some multis.
On the list you mentioned, palmitate and carbon dioxide are probably the safest ones you can use with little side effects… palmitate its probably safer to eat sugar than rely on coconut oil

Well if you dont eat meat then youll eat fish which is a larger source of TMAO. If you go vegan you eat a lot of PUFA. So best option is still tp eat meat. And I don’t buy TMAO danger anyway.

Doesnt betaine at least the supplement also turn to tmao or something

 

[Dr. B]

Just a random thought on Carnitine supplementation......

Most L-Carnitine sold is Carnitine Taurate or Carnipure, meaning it is bound with Taurine. Looking at Now brand L-Carnitine, 1 g of Carnitine comes from 1470mg of Carnitine Taurate. Soooo, is it possible the benefits people really see from Carnitine Supplementation are from Taurine? There are reported GI side effects at higher doses, and I know from personal experience that Taurine can cause the same sort of GI sides. Any thoughts? @haidut

It's definitely possible. Carnitine can also increase cortisol synthesis and initially that can make people feel quite good. Since it also excites the brain, that can also feel like a pick me up but in the long run people pay the price. There is no reason to use carnitine as supplement. Whatever needs people have can be easily met through food.

Exactly and additionally meat has all kinds of things besides carnitine… i think it has all these aminos people in the fitness community often like to supplement. It has creatine, carnosine, taurine, carnitine, even inosine? So any benefits from meat, or lack of side effects from eating meat dont transfer over to carnitine individually… just like meat containing iron or zinc doesn’t automatically mean supplementing them becomes safe or helpful…