Gone Peating
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it's an aromatase inhibitor
lower doses of k2 cause this for me, interestingly higher doses (>10mg with a fatty meal) orally do not
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Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)
- Thread starter haidut
- Start date
it's an aromatase inhibitor
lower doses of k2 cause this for me, interestingly higher doses (>10mg with a fatty meal) orally do not
Amazoniac
Member
- Vitamin K: Double Bonds beyond Coagulation Insights into Differences between Vitamin K1 and K2 in Health and Disease
- Structural Insights into Phylloquinone (Vitamin K1), Menaquinone (MK4, MK7), and Menadione (Vitamin K3) Binding to VKORC1 (Vitamin K cycle | LPI)
- Vitamin K2: A Vitamin that Works like a Hormone, Impinging on Gene Expression
"In recent years, ex vivo studies have demonstrated a previously unknown immunomodulatory role for vitamin K2. First, it was demonstrated that MK-7 modulated expression of TNF-α, IL-1α and IL-1β [102]. Furthering this finding, K2 decreases proliferation of T-cells from healthy individuals, whereas vitamin K1 had no such effect [103]. This has been further substantiated with T-cells from a larger number of children with pediatric atopic dermatitis and healthy controls, as well as a separate study with patients on dialysis [104,105]. Both these studies demonstrated that K2 decreased the number of activated T-cells, as well as proliferation. Thus, accumulated evidence is showing a novel role of K2 as an immunosuppressive agent. This needs to be further elaborated; until then, a novel physiological mechanism by which vitamin K2 can aid immunomodulation can be hypothesized, although it requires further study."
- Structural Insights into Phylloquinone (Vitamin K1), Menaquinone (MK4, MK7), and Menadione (Vitamin K3) Binding to VKORC1 (Vitamin K cycle | LPI)
- Vitamin K2: A Vitamin that Works like a Hormone, Impinging on Gene Expression
Amazoniac
Member
- Vitamin K: Redox-modulation, prevention of mitochondrial dysfunction and anticancer effect
@Sheila
"Quinones can undergo one-electron reduction, producing intermediate semiquinone radicals, as well as two-electron reduction with production of hydroquinones (Fig. 3) [41]. Both reactions are accompanied by consumption of superoxide radicals and reducing equivalents (as NADH, NADPH, glutathione), which are essential for cancer cell homeostasis [42], [43]."
"In vitro studies have reported a strong anticancer effect of the combination of vitamin C and pro-vitamin K3 (C&K3) on cancer cell lines [71], [72], [73], [74], [75], [76], [77], [78]. Most of these studies have demonstrated that anticancer effect of the combination is most well expressed at ratio vitamin C:K3 = 100:1 (mol:mol). Different mechanisms of vitamin C&K3-mediated apoptosis have been discussed: production of free radicals under alkaline conditions, thiol depletion, lipid peroxidation, modulation of ATP level, calcium regulation, activation of NF-kB, etc. Some authors suggest a caspase-independent induction of apoptosis, and others suggest caspase-dependent cell death [71], [73], [74], [76]."
"Eleff at al. have reported that administration of vitamin C and K3 on the skeletal muscles of a 17-years-old patient with a severe defect in complex III of the mitochondrial electron transport chain (mitochondrial dysfunction) increases the recovery rate, compared to the recovery rate of the young female controls [83]. The defect includes a deficiency of reducible cytochrome b (cyt. b), which is accompanied by an effective prevention of aerobic metabolism and oxidative phosphorylation. The authors bypass the deficient complex III by using pro-vitamin K3 and vitamin C as electron transfer mediators to carry the electrons from coenzyme Q (CoQ) to cyt. c. Thus, they succeeded to increase ATP production rate to about 65% of the normal state in mitochondria, as well as to decrease the lactic acidosis in the patient. The combination of vitamin C and K3 results in a production of more ATP, than in the case of vitamin C applied alone. The authors suggest that both vitamins can reduce directly cyt. c, since the reduction potential of cyt. c is over + 200 mV – more positive than those of menadione or ascorbate [83], [84], [85], [86], [87]."
"The possibility of improving oxidative phosphorylation by bypass of the cytochrome-deficient site in mitochondria by vitamin C and K3 was also reported by McCord and Fridovich many years ago [84]. Recent in vitro studies provide further evidence that treatment of cells with vitamin C and K3 results in spikes in ATP production due to a shunt around a defective area of complex III of the mitochondrial electron-transport chain (between CoQ and cyt. c) [74], [75], [88], [89], [90], [91]. This reaction causes a shift from anaerobic (glycolytic) to aerobic (oxidative) metabolism, which diminishes hypoxia and lactic acidosis."
"Based on the studies described above, we assume that vitamin C and K can serve as cyt. c reducers either directly or indirectly, but in both cases they can avoid mitochondrial dysfunction and restore the oxidative phosphorylation. The hypothetic mechanism of coupling between “vitamin C redox-cycle” and “vitamin K redox-cycle” and their effect on mitochondrial functionality is shown in Fig. 5. In the case of dysfunction in Complex-III (due to mutations in cyt. b), the electrons can not be transferred from CoQ to cyt. c. In the case of dysfunction in Complex-I (due to mutations in NADH dehydrogenase), the electrons are blocked on the first step of respiratory chain. It is well-known that both types of mutations are accompanied by superoxide production from complex-III and complex-I and suppression of ATP synthesis [43], [48]. The oxidized vitamin K (KQ) can accept electrons from superoxide, converting consequently to semiquinone (KQH•) and hydroquinone (KQH2). Finally, the reduced vitamin K can transfer electrons directly to cyt. c. In turn, the oxidized vitamin C (dehydoroascorbate) can accept electrons directly from Complex-I (NADH) or CoQ, converting consequently to semidehydroascorbate (Asc•) and ascorbate (Asc). Finally, the reduced vitamin C can transfer electrons to cyt. c. The two redox-cycles lead to a bypass between Complex-I (or Complex-III) and cyt. c. This will restore the oxidative phosphorylation and ATP synthesis. ATP, generated due to the vitamin C&K-mediated bypasses, prevents the anaerobic conditions, decreases the levels of “oncogenic” superoxide, decreases the levels of lactate, eliminates the lactic acidosis and hypoxia, and allows the cancer cells to trigger autophagia and “to kill themselves”."
"Recent data indicate that the redox cycles of vitamins C and K are cross-linked – ascorbate can reduce pro-vitamin K3, which is accompanied by a production of hydrogen peroxide (“onco-suppressive” and cytotoxic ROS) [92], [93]. The reduction of vitamin K by vitamin C allows also a direct (superoxide-independent) reduction of cyt. c by vitamin K (KQH2). Silvera-Dorta et al. have also reported that vitamin C can reduce CoQ and the process is coupled with reduction of oxygen to hydrogen peroxide [93]."
"The redox-system vitamin C&K3 could also influence the ratio between the oxidized and reduced forms of the main endogenous redox-pairs: NAD+/NADH, NADP+/NADPH, GSH/GSSH, etc. (Fig. 5) [10], [72], [88]. These redox-pairs are enzymatic cofactors, involved in various biochemical reactions and serve as key regulators of cellular metabolism, including lactate dehydrogenase, pyruvate dehydrogenase, glutathione-dependent enzymes, etc. The balance between oxidized and reduced forms is crucial for the cell behavior, as well as for cell survival or death. It is widely accepted that the increased mitochondrial oxidative stress and high levels of NAD(P)H and glutathione are distinctive features of the metabolic phenotype of cancer cells [43], [44], [47], [48]. Since the reduction potentials of NAD(P)H, FADH2 and GSH are very low (below −200 mV), all substances can directly reduce vitamins C and K."
"The analyzed data suggest that the combination of vitamins C and K (in particular K3) is not just an antioxidant system. Vitamin C&K3 is a powerful redox-couple that can prevent mitochondrial dysfunction, restore oxidative phosphorylation, modulate redox-homeostasis, eliminate hypoxia, and induce apoptosis and cell death."
"In vitro studies have reported a strong anticancer effect of the combination of vitamin C and pro-vitamin K3 (C&K3) on cancer cell lines [71], [72], [73], [74], [75], [76], [77], [78]. Most of these studies have demonstrated that anticancer effect of the combination is most well expressed at ratio vitamin C:K3 = 100:1 (mol:mol). Different mechanisms of vitamin C&K3-mediated apoptosis have been discussed: production of free radicals under alkaline conditions, thiol depletion, lipid peroxidation, modulation of ATP level, calcium regulation, activation of NF-kB, etc. Some authors suggest a caspase-independent induction of apoptosis, and others suggest caspase-dependent cell death [71], [73], [74], [76]."
"Eleff at al. have reported that administration of vitamin C and K3 on the skeletal muscles of a 17-years-old patient with a severe defect in complex III of the mitochondrial electron transport chain (mitochondrial dysfunction) increases the recovery rate, compared to the recovery rate of the young female controls [83]. The defect includes a deficiency of reducible cytochrome b (cyt. b), which is accompanied by an effective prevention of aerobic metabolism and oxidative phosphorylation. The authors bypass the deficient complex III by using pro-vitamin K3 and vitamin C as electron transfer mediators to carry the electrons from coenzyme Q (CoQ) to cyt. c. Thus, they succeeded to increase ATP production rate to about 65% of the normal state in mitochondria, as well as to decrease the lactic acidosis in the patient. The combination of vitamin C and K3 results in a production of more ATP, than in the case of vitamin C applied alone. The authors suggest that both vitamins can reduce directly cyt. c, since the reduction potential of cyt. c is over + 200 mV – more positive than those of menadione or ascorbate [83], [84], [85], [86], [87]."
"The possibility of improving oxidative phosphorylation by bypass of the cytochrome-deficient site in mitochondria by vitamin C and K3 was also reported by McCord and Fridovich many years ago [84]. Recent in vitro studies provide further evidence that treatment of cells with vitamin C and K3 results in spikes in ATP production due to a shunt around a defective area of complex III of the mitochondrial electron-transport chain (between CoQ and cyt. c) [74], [75], [88], [89], [90], [91]. This reaction causes a shift from anaerobic (glycolytic) to aerobic (oxidative) metabolism, which diminishes hypoxia and lactic acidosis."
"Based on the studies described above, we assume that vitamin C and K can serve as cyt. c reducers either directly or indirectly, but in both cases they can avoid mitochondrial dysfunction and restore the oxidative phosphorylation. The hypothetic mechanism of coupling between “vitamin C redox-cycle” and “vitamin K redox-cycle” and their effect on mitochondrial functionality is shown in Fig. 5. In the case of dysfunction in Complex-III (due to mutations in cyt. b), the electrons can not be transferred from CoQ to cyt. c. In the case of dysfunction in Complex-I (due to mutations in NADH dehydrogenase), the electrons are blocked on the first step of respiratory chain. It is well-known that both types of mutations are accompanied by superoxide production from complex-III and complex-I and suppression of ATP synthesis [43], [48]. The oxidized vitamin K (KQ) can accept electrons from superoxide, converting consequently to semiquinone (KQH•) and hydroquinone (KQH2). Finally, the reduced vitamin K can transfer electrons directly to cyt. c. In turn, the oxidized vitamin C (dehydoroascorbate) can accept electrons directly from Complex-I (NADH) or CoQ, converting consequently to semidehydroascorbate (Asc•) and ascorbate (Asc). Finally, the reduced vitamin C can transfer electrons to cyt. c. The two redox-cycles lead to a bypass between Complex-I (or Complex-III) and cyt. c. This will restore the oxidative phosphorylation and ATP synthesis. ATP, generated due to the vitamin C&K-mediated bypasses, prevents the anaerobic conditions, decreases the levels of “oncogenic” superoxide, decreases the levels of lactate, eliminates the lactic acidosis and hypoxia, and allows the cancer cells to trigger autophagia and “to kill themselves”."
"Recent data indicate that the redox cycles of vitamins C and K are cross-linked – ascorbate can reduce pro-vitamin K3, which is accompanied by a production of hydrogen peroxide (“onco-suppressive” and cytotoxic ROS) [92], [93]. The reduction of vitamin K by vitamin C allows also a direct (superoxide-independent) reduction of cyt. c by vitamin K (KQH2). Silvera-Dorta et al. have also reported that vitamin C can reduce CoQ and the process is coupled with reduction of oxygen to hydrogen peroxide [93]."
"The redox-system vitamin C&K3 could also influence the ratio between the oxidized and reduced forms of the main endogenous redox-pairs: NAD+/NADH, NADP+/NADPH, GSH/GSSH, etc. (Fig. 5) [10], [72], [88]. These redox-pairs are enzymatic cofactors, involved in various biochemical reactions and serve as key regulators of cellular metabolism, including lactate dehydrogenase, pyruvate dehydrogenase, glutathione-dependent enzymes, etc. The balance between oxidized and reduced forms is crucial for the cell behavior, as well as for cell survival or death. It is widely accepted that the increased mitochondrial oxidative stress and high levels of NAD(P)H and glutathione are distinctive features of the metabolic phenotype of cancer cells [43], [44], [47], [48]. Since the reduction potentials of NAD(P)H, FADH2 and GSH are very low (below −200 mV), all substances can directly reduce vitamins C and K."
"The analyzed data suggest that the combination of vitamins C and K (in particular K3) is not just an antioxidant system. Vitamin C&K3 is a powerful redox-couple that can prevent mitochondrial dysfunction, restore oxidative phosphorylation, modulate redox-homeostasis, eliminate hypoxia, and induce apoptosis and cell death."
@Sheila
Dave Clark
Member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2017
- Messages
- 1,995
I asked this question, and Haidut said that if you can get at least 70% alcohol (the kind from the liquor store), you can blend it in to double the volume, which would give you a 1 mg dose instead of a 2 mg dose. The alcohol has to be at least 70 % or it will not blend in homogeneously and you will have to shake it up each time you dose.
Sulcuscentralis
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2017
- Messages
- 625
My bottle says: 15mg per dose (1 drop). Is it a typo? LAst time i ordered it was 1,5 mg per dose.
GreekDemiGod
Member
The drops in my Kuinone bottle come out very easily, almost like a continuous stream 
. Not sure if what I count as a drop is actually 3 drops, so hoping I'm not overdosing my intended intake .
. Not sure if what I count as a drop is actually 3 drops, so hoping I'm not overdosing my intended intake .I just want to report on this product. The quality of the product is out of this world!! It's nothing comparable to for instance the expensive Thorne K2. I've used that one before. Both I used topically (of course I took a lot more drops with the Thorne K2) but I never noticed any real effect. Well with this product, Kuinone, I really notice positive effects. I ordered calcirol as well today, because I'm deficient in D and have dosed with the Thorne vitamin D but did not have great results and I need to balance these two.
Mossy
Member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2017
- Messages
- 2,043
Thanks for sharing. I’m currently using Thorne for both. I’ll try Idealabs next.
Your welcome. The vitamin D from Idealabs is also very potent from my experience
Amazoniac
Member
- The Characterization of Feces and Urine: A Review of the Literature to Inform Advanced Treatment Technology (!?)
- Measurement of K vitamins in human and animal feces by high-performance liquid chromatography with fluorometric detection
"A 0.3 g sample of dried crap powder corresponding to about 1 g of normal excrement [was used.]"
"The median dry weight of feces is 25% of the wet weight of feces (n = 45) with values in the range of 11–34% reported (Figure 1)."
- Measurement of K vitamins in human and animal feces by high-performance liquid chromatography with fluorometric detection
"A 0.3 g sample of dried crap powder corresponding to about 1 g of normal excrement [was used.]"
Amazoniac
Member
Other than a very light wallet, is there any kind of upper limit to Vitamin K dosage? It just seems like the effects purportedly get better. Obviously everyones point of diminishing returns will be different, but I wonder what the sort of upper limit is, and what its worth keeping an eye on when you're taking high dosages to not throw anything else off balance. Haidut?
Hello,
I recently bought one bottle of Kuinone, just out of curiosity. I am female, I don't have any major health issues, other than wanting to lose some weight (drank way too much milk when first started Peating) and reduce water retention. My skill has also been look quite sallow lately. Can someone, maybe a female, recommend the best way to start using it? Should one take smaller doses to start with and then build up gradually? Topically or orally?
Many thanks!
I recently bought one bottle of Kuinone, just out of curiosity. I am female, I don't have any major health issues, other than wanting to lose some weight (drank way too much milk when first started Peating) and reduce water retention. My skill has also been look quite sallow lately. Can someone, maybe a female, recommend the best way to start using it? Should one take smaller doses to start with and then build up gradually? Topically or orally?
Many thanks!
Mr.Cacciatore
Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2020
- Messages
- 39
Hey, i would like to buy this product, but i live in Europe and the shipping is very expensive and i am a little bit scared because of thecustoms, is there a way to buy this product that is shipped directly from europe?
Sulcuscentralis
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2017
- Messages
- 625
I'm from Hungary and shipping was always fast and without problems through the customs. Not sure how it's gonna work during this corona bs. Hit Georgi up via email and discuss the details with him,I'm sure he's gonna be helpful
Mr.Cacciatore
Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2020
- Messages
- 39
On the idealabs website i can't find the e-mail, do you what is his e-mail?I'm from Hungary and shipping was always fast and without problems through the customs. Not sure how it's gonna work during this corona bs. Hit Georgi up via email and discuss the details with him,I'm sure he's gonna be helpful
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
