Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

CJ23

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
17
Hi! Thanks for your great work. My friend Karliin directed me to your supplements as I was 'floxxed' by. ciprofloxacin a year ago (nerve damage and tendons , panic attacks amongst other things). Im doing better, but she suggested my baseline strategy for full healing should be sunlight, grounding, k2, vitamin c and progesterone cream (even though my progesterone came back slightly high in single day hormone test?). Im having odd reactions in fingers when using technology so she suspects MCA issues. Im looking at this kuinone product and looks like id apply transdermally, 1 drop on stomach before bed, if I read correctly? Any insight you have on any of this would be so appreciated, thanks!
 

Gone Peating

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
1,006
Hi! Thanks for your great work. My friend Karliin directed me to your supplements as I was 'floxxed' by. ciprofloxacin a year ago (nerve damage and tendons , panic attacks amongst other things). Im doing better, but she suggested my baseline strategy for full healing should be sunlight, grounding, k2, vitamin c and progesterone cream (even though my progesterone came back slightly high in single day hormone test?). Im having odd reactions in fingers when using technology so she suspects MCA issues. Im looking at this kuinone product and looks like id apply transdermally, 1 drop on stomach before bed, if I read correctly? Any insight you have on any of this would be so appreciated, thanks!

Best thing is to experiment. Try topically on different areas. Start with small doses note the effects then compare with the effects from higher doses.

If you take kuinone orally make sure to consume at least 20g fat with it (like ice cream) to optimize absorption

Personally, I only notice the beneficial effects from kuinone orally but everyone is different
 

Yody

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
82
Been lurking this forum for a few weeks now. I've obtained some Andro, Pansterone, Gonadin, Mitolipin, Tocovit, Energin, and Kuinone. Applied 2 drops of Kuinone to the nads yesterday evening, (along with 4 drops of gonadin,) 1 to the temple, and 2 to the knees. Within an hour I felt very charged up and overall less inflamed. After a cold shower, my muscles looked fuller than ever. Really excited about this product. And with 720 drops per bottle, the value is incredible!

Thanks Haidut!
 
Last edited:

CJ23

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
17
Best thing is to experiment. Try topically on different areas. Start with small doses note the effects then compare with the effects from higher doses.

If you take kuinone orally make sure to consume at least 20g fat with it (like ice cream) to optimize absorption

Personally, I only notice the beneficial effects from kuinone orally but everyone is different

thankyou!
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Kuinone experience report

Some people here have reported anxiety with Kuinone.

Yesterday, 4 drops of Kuinone on the scrotum led rapidly to severe anxiety and elevated blood pressure, resolving only after several hours.

The blood pressure spike was serious: borderline hypertensive crisis. I should emphasize that I've been having blood pressure issues for over four months now, ever since experiencing a hypertensive emergency due to combining an MAOI herb (St. John's Wort) with tyramine. It put my nervous system through the shredder. Small stressors now feel catastrophic, and caffeine has become completely intolerable. I have not yet figured out why things have not calmed back down to normal after all this time.

Before the topical Kuinone experiment, I was taking Relentless Improvement MK-4 orally at 15 or 30mg per day with no issues. I also used the old DMSO-formulated Kuinone topically when it first came out with no issues (never on the scrotum, though), but my health situation has evolved significantly since then, and I respond to quite a few supplements differently.

I post this (1) to let others know that such a reaction is possible, and (2) to ask if anyone has an idea about the mechanism responsible.

Thanks for the report. If it is is not affecting you well then I'd not use it. Vitamin K my also have inhibitory effects on MAO-A when used in higher doses. So, if you have an issue with MAO-A or are sensitive to inhibitors then may be best to stay away from higher doses K2. For most people, 4 drops would be a weekly dose. At least this is how much Peat has mentioned he uses topically on a weekly basis.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Been lurking this forum for a few weeks now. I've obtained some Andro, Pansterone, Gonadin, Mitolipin, Tocovit, Energin, and Kuinone. Applied 2 drops of Kuinone to the nads yesterday evening, (along with 4 drops of gonadin,) 1 to the temple, and 2 to the knees. Within an hour I felt very charged up and overall less inflamed. After a cold shower, my muscles looked fuller than ever. Really excited about this product. And with 720 drops per bottle, the value is incredible!

Thanks Haidut!

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback!
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Hi! Thanks for your great work. My friend Karliin directed me to your supplements as I was 'floxxed' by. ciprofloxacin a year ago (nerve damage and tendons , panic attacks amongst other things). Im doing better, but she suggested my baseline strategy for full healing should be sunlight, grounding, k2, vitamin c and progesterone cream (even though my progesterone came back slightly high in single day hormone test?). Im having odd reactions in fingers when using technology so she suspects MCA issues. Im looking at this kuinone product and looks like id apply transdermally, 1 drop on stomach before bed, if I read correctly? Any insight you have on any of this would be so appreciated, thanks!

I think starting with 1-2 drops topically on any torso area would be good. Most commonly used areas are shoulders, chest, and abdomen. You can even try putting 1-2 drops in the navel as the skin there is much thinner and this approach has been used for topical steroid delivery.
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
Oh shiτ, will is vitamin K2 taking charge?

- Vitamin K2 cannot substitute Coenzyme Q10 as electron carrier in the mitochondrial respiratory chain of mammalian cells

"Vos and coauthors have proposed that vitamin K2 can function as an electron carrier in the MRC of a multicellular eukaryote, D. melanogaster[34]. The structure of vitamin K2 is similar to CoQ10, but it has a shorter hydrophobic carbon chain tail with four prenyl units that confer higher hydrophilicity. Because of the better bioavailability of vitamin K2, these findings opened the possibility that it could substitute CoQ10 in deficient patients.

To test this hypothesis, we have employed cells in which CoQ10 biosynthesis was disrupted or inhibited either by genetic or pharmacological means. Our results do not support the notion that vitamin K2 can act as an electron carrier in eukaryotic cells. In fact, even though it can easily reach mitochondria, vitamin K2 could not restore either electron flow or ATP biosynthesis in CoQ10-deficient cells."

Vitamin K2 is not able to correct the defective MRC activities in human cells

"One of the experiments performed by Vos and coworkers to support their claims showed that CoQ10 and vitamin K2 act as electron acceptors from complex II in vitro[34]. However! We now show that neither compound is a good in vitro substrate for Complex II compared to what is considered a good one, DUB[48]. In fact, the ability of vitamin K2 to accept electrons is about two orders of magnitude lower than that of DUB, and the situation for CoQ10 is only slightly better. Therefore, it is impossible to draw any conclusions from this experiment.

In agreement with our results, vitamin K2 failed to rescue mouse embryonic fibroblasts (MEFs) that are deficient for MCLK1 (the orthologue of human COQ7), where it could not restore the respiratory defect caused by CoQ10 deficiency[24].

One of the limitations of our study is that we could not use D. melanogaster cells to exclude that the different results obtained in that model could be due to a species-specific effect. Nevertheless, our data clearly show that the role of vitamin K2 as an electron carrier (if confirmed) is probably restricted to Drosophila, and is not a general phenomenon in eukaryotic cells."​

@Kray
- Coenzyme Q10: Absorption, tissue uptake, metabolism and pharmacokinetics
- Total Coenzyme Q10 Concentrations in Asian Men Following Multiple Oral 50-mg Doses Administered as Coenzyme Q10 Sustained Release Tablets or Regular Tablets

"Total body content of CoQ10 has been estimated to be 0.5—1.5 g.[4,10] The intracellular distribution of CoQ10 is described as follows: nucleus 25—30%; mitochondria 40—50% (inner mitochondria membrane); microsomal 15—20%; cytosolic 5—10%."​

I don't doubt if it's eventually confirmed as a decent substitute for CoQ10 in humanoids, but it's difficult to reconcile that it can barely fulfill vitamin K functions if the amounts aren't relatively high, so how to expect that the rest of this use is enough to make a difference in the respiratory cycle? Perhaps it's diverted only as a rescue to places in critical need? Its molecular weight is half that of CoQ10 and the absorption is insanely better, so if someone supplements 5 mg of mk-4 and 100 mg of ubiquinone, depending on the formulations in question, you can end up with similar potentials after correction. Also, a few hundred micrograms of methylene blue is capable of doing the marked impact on energy.
 
Last edited:

Momado965

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
1,003
Since kuinone achieves higher blood levels higher than other supps in the market, how many drops of it do I need to achieve the same blood levels of the 1mg/kg study?
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
If it's proven in the future to be a substitute for co and q10, it has yet to be determined how effective it is before we can rely on it for this purpose. In case it's inferior, it might take its job as a temporary solution but trick that the part has enough of it without calling for replacement while the function is compromised.
 

zanolachino

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
20
Thanks for the report. If it is is not affecting you well then I'd not use it. Vitamin K my also have inhibitory effects on MAO-A when used in higher doses. So, if you have an issue with MAO-A or are sensitive to inhibitors then may be best to stay away from higher doses K2. For most people, 4 drops would be a weekly dose. At least this is how much Peat has mentioned he uses topically on a weekly basis.

Haidut, thank you for this reply. I did not have the slightest suspicion that vitamin K might be an MAOI. If so, there is no question that I need to tread carefully (I haven't dared go anywhere near methylene blue, for example). Obviously, a question I need to get to the bottom of is why I am so sensitive to MAOIs.

Do you have any references on hand showing MAOI activity for vitamin K? I was able to find just one reference to other quinones. Perhaps this is the source of your suspicion?

Thanks again.
 

Tomasz

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
21
@jb116
Vascular calcification can also be due to excessive GR/MR activity and MK-4 may not help much on its own if those hormones are elevated. In fact, glucocorticoid/mineralocorticoid excess is widespread with advancing age and is known to cause arterial stiffness (precursor to calcification) even in young people. Progesterone/pregnenolone combined with MK-4 may be much more effective. See below.
Cortisol And Aldosterone Cause Vascular Calcification
@haidut can I take oxidal together with
Kuinone
And also might oxidal help with loosing eye
sighs-vision do to Anterior ischemic optic neuropathy my father just got diagnosed with
Only thing hospital find out is swollen vain and inflammation in the eye They don’t have any idea what could be the reason give him some steroids and send home-there’s nothing they can do about this-that was the answer to question
Any ideas ?
Thanks
 

drlobster

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
12
Been taking 5mg a day of kuinone for a week.

On day 3, started getting frequent twitches and trembles in my triceps and biceps. I think you'd describe them as "fasciculations"

Never had these in my life beforehand so pretty sure the mk4 is causing it somehow

I tried supplementing magnesium and this hasn't resolved it.

Any ideas why this could be happening and what to try?
 

Healthia

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
111
Been taking 5mg a day of kuinone for a week.

On day 3, started getting frequent twitches and trembles in my triceps and biceps. I think you'd describe them as "fasciculations"

Never had these in my life beforehand so pretty sure the mk4 is causing it somehow

I tried supplementing magnesium and this hasn't resolved it.

Any ideas why this could be happening and what to try?

The same exact thing happened to me when I was taking Vitamin D without all the supporting nutrients (Vitamin K being one of many that influences calcium transport and calcium influences muscle contractions). I had a tremor in my tricep 24/7 for over 5 months. It’s a complex thing to balance all the supplements that are involved with balancing the effects of Vitamin D and Vitamin K supplementation, but I ended up figuring it out through trail and error. What other supplements are you taking? Are you taking calcium and/or Boron supplements daily? Are you taking Vitamin d?
 
Last edited:

drlobster

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
12
The same exact thing happened to me when I was taking Vitamin D without all the supporting nutrients (Vitamin K being one of many that influences calcium transport and calcium influences muscle contractions). I had a tremor in my tricep 24/7 for over 5 months. It’s a complex thing to balance all the supplements that are involved with balancing the effects of Vitamin D and Vitamin K supplementation, but I ended up figuring it out through trail and error. What other supplements are you taking? Are you taking calcium and/or Boron supplements daily? Are you taking Vitamin d?

Interesting. What was the solution for you?

If it was just d3 causing tremors I might have anticipated magnesium deficiency, but I don't have enough understanding to work out how MK4 could cause it.

Aside from mk4 I am taking
-Pure encapsulations ONE multivitamin with 2000iu d3 and a broad spectrum of high absorption forms
-thorne citramate (mag citrate and malate) about 300mg a day
-glucosamine

I just bought life extension bone restore with approx 700mg calcium, 300mg mag and 1000iu d3, but haven't taken this yet.

I'm most interested in what you found to work regarding both the ratios and the timing.

I also read that d3 and k2 shouldn't be taken at exactly the same time - which is what I've done up until now. But I wasn't sure about the validity or sources of this comment when I read it. Some input by haidut would be great too
 

Healthia

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
111
Interesting. What was the solution for you?

If it was just d3 causing tremors I might have anticipated magnesium deficiency, but I don't have enough understanding to work out how MK4 could cause it.

Aside from mk4 I am taking
-Pure encapsulations ONE multivitamin with 2000iu d3 and a broad spectrum of high absorption forms
-thorne citramate (mag citrate and malate) about 300mg a day
-glucosamine

I just bought life extension bone restore with approx 700mg calcium, 300mg mag and 1000iu d3, but haven't taken this yet.

I'm most interested in what you found to work regarding both the ratios and the timing.

I also read that d3 and k2 shouldn't be taken at exactly the same time - which is what I've done up until now. But I wasn't sure about the validity or sources of this comment when I read it. Some input by haidut would be great too

You’ll need to experiment since everyone has different levels of D, k, magnesium and calcium but I would venture to say that those would be the 4 you should experiment with. Since Vitamin k acts as a traffic cop by telling the body where calcium should be directed (mostly into bones and teeth) there may be a chance that there is little
Calcium left over for your muscles and that might be why you are having the contractions. Try 1,000 to 2,000 mg per day of calcium for a week and see if that evens things out (Ray recommends calcium carbonate). Btw I did the exact same thing as you when I had my tricep flutters... I took various amounts of magnesium thinking that would relax the spasm. It did nothing. Also get your vitamin d levels checked. There is much interplay between D and K and calcium and you’ll be flying in the dark if you don’t know your D level. If your D deficient while taking that much K that may cause issues. General rule of thumb is 200-250 mcg of Vitamin K for each 1,000 iu of Vitamin D you take orally (I take closer to 1mg of K2 for each 1,000 of Vitamin D but only because I am at the highest safe range blood level of Vitamin D... 91 ng/ml) If you’re interested in this kind of stuff read: Vitamin K2 And The Calcium Paradox by Kate Rheaume-Bleue.

And yes D and K should be taken at separate times just as you shouldn’t take copper, zinc, magnesium or calcium at the same
Time.
 
Last edited:

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,113
Low calcium or potassium can cause the same issue. What about taking more vitamin D3? 50-100 IU/kg. Maybe even 300 IU/kg. 10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ MK-4. 400-600 chelated magnesium. Try to maintain a 1 : 1 : 1 magnesium : calcium : phosphorus ratio.
 

drlobster

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
12
You’ll need to experiment since everyone has different levels of D, k, magnesium and calcium but I would venture to say that those would be the 4 you should experiment with. Since Vitamin k acts as a traffic cop by telling the body where calcium should be directed (mostly into bones and teeth) there may be a chance that there is little
Calcium left over for your muscles and that might be why you are having the contractions. Try 1,000 to 2,000 mg per day of calcium for a week and see if that evens things out (Ray recommends calcium carbonate). Btw I did the exact same thing as you when I had my tricep flutters... I took various amounts of magnesium thinking that would relax the spasm. It did nothing. Also get your vitamin d levels checked. There is much interplay between D and K and calcium and you’ll be flying in the dark if you don’t know your D level. If your D deficient while taking that much K that may cause issues. General rule of thumb is 200-250 mcg of Vitamin K for each 1,000 iu of Vitamin D you take orally (I take closer to 1mg of K2 for each 1,000 of Vitamin D but only because I am at the highest safe range blood level of Vitamin D... 91 ng/ml) If you’re interested in this kind of stuff read: Vitamin K2 And The Calcium Paradox by Kate Rheaume-Bleue.

And yes D and K should be taken at separate times just as you shouldn’t take copper, zinc, magnesium or calcium at the same
Time.

Thank you, interesting.

It's annoying that all these potential deficiencies have similar outcomes.

The first step I've taken is reducing vitamin k slightly, then I'm going to experiment with increasing calcium first, then d3, then mag.

Q: What would happen if d3 is too low relative to k2? I'm only taking 2500IU d3 relative to 5mg k2. So that's pretty low I guess. My blood levels are approx 50ng/ml at last test - I know approx 60-80 is ideal according to several studies including the sleep studies of gominak.

Will k2 deplete existing blood levels of d3?

Oh one last thing ... another thing I have is a weird tingly sensation in my chest/heart area about 10 minutes after taking mk4
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom