Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[tomisonbottom]

No, the vitamin K is not damaged by low temps but only by bright sunlight. So, if possible, keep it in a dark cabinet when not using. No need to refrigerate.

I did not know it could be damaged by sunlight. I have a bottle on the bathroom counter and sun comes in the window.
How would I know if it's ruined? Change of color?

And your other supplements this way? Why not use the white bottle instead of clear, if it can be ruined simply by light? Or have instructions on the bottle label for storing?

Thanks

 

[haidut]

I did not know it could be damaged by sunlight. I have a bottle on the bathroom counter and sun comes in the window.
How would I know if it's ruined? Change of color?

And your other supplements this way? Why not use the white bottle instead of clear, if it can be ruined simply by light? Or have instructions on the bottle label for storing?

Thanks

Vitamin E, B2, and K can be damaged when exposed to direct sunlight for a few hours. If just left in the room basking in ambient sunlight these are probably OK. The non-transparent bottles we tested had issues with leaking BPA and other endocrine disurptors, so until we find a safe vendor we would rather use something we have tested repeatedly and it has come back as safe (based on current knowledge and tests).

 

[haidut]

That's the fastest shipping confirmation I've ever received, I ordered about an hour ago and have a tracking number already, bravo!

Thanks, we try to ship most packages the same day if they were ordered before 5pm. Weekends are an exception of course but often we ship at least one of the weekend days as well.

 

[Kibs]

Thanks, we try to ship most packages the same day if they were ordered before 5pm. Weekends are an exception of course but often we ship at least one of the weekend days as well.

Your service is much appreciated, being in the uk it’s great to get this kind of service.

 

[lacto man]

You misunderstood, it was jelly when I received it, so I heated it a few seconds and it wasn't jelly anymore.
Maybe I heated it too much and went over 150 degrees F then.

More evidence for mk4 from an amazon review of carlson mk4. Perhaps he is a user on this forum ?

"
ByDomoon March 18, 2016
Size: 60Verified Purchase
I took this form of K2 for about seven months last year, in an attempt to improve the condition of my teeth. I did a bit of research into vitamin K and after reading many reviews, I decided to try this product after using Life Extension Super K for 1-2 months and not seeing much difference. Since the reviews for this and other MK7 versions were so good, I thought everything would be great and kept reordering this without worry.
Seven months later, my teeth were horribly WORSE than before. I had developed a huge cavity in those few months that wasn't there before, my teeth were turning brown all along the inner edges, and one of my molars had a chunk of tooth just chip off on its own, on the side of the tooth. I hadn't really paid much attention to my teeth since I thought the MK7 would be taking care of them for me (dumb, yes I know). I never experienced that 'smoothness' on my teeth people always mentioned when taking vitamin K.
I freaked out and started researching in earnest, everything I could, and why/how people's teeth were improving on vitamin K. I read Weston A Price, the entire website. I knew food sources of vitamin K + cod liver oil were not enough to rescue my teeth, especially the one huge cavity that started to be painful (definitely a root canal waiting to happen), and then I came across one article on Marks Daily Apple that discussed one woman's experience in saving her teeth with vitamin K, specifically MK4, NOT MK7.
After reading that article I immediately ordered Carlson's MK4, which is 5mg per capsule, and started taking three a day, along with the Cure Your Tooth Decay book's emergency protocol of cod liver oil three times a day. The difference in my teeth has been incredible. The huge cavity I have has shrunk, and is now a light brown instead of black, doesn't cause me anymore pain, and all the brown along the inner edges of my teeth have faded away. My teeth are the brightest white they've ever been, and when I run my tongue along them, they are all smooth and clean. Before, when I would floss, the floss would rip and get caught on all kinds of jagged edges between my teeth but not anymore. It's been about 3 months on MK4 but the difference it has made in my teeth is really staggering.
One thing I noticed on the MK4 is that I didn't need to take any vitamin D supplements at all, the vitamin K seems to 'magnify' or multiply what little you get from the sun so I would get terrible headaches and pains when taking both D + K, which disappeared when I stopped the vitamin D. I still get some vit.D from the cod liver oil, and it seems to be enough. My theory is that too much vitamin D without a proper vitamin K to balance/utilize it can really screw you up, and I firmly believe MK7 is NOT the right vitamin K to be taking.
I also tried Thorne's MK4 drops, both sublingually and transdermally (a la Ray Peat), and it did not seem to be as effective as taking Carlson's orally, at least for me."

So how long after you began applying MK4 to your teeth was is before you saw any results?

 

[DaveFoster]

@haidut Does your new Kuinone come in opaque white bottles that do not leech BPA or other estrogenic compounds?

 

[YourUniverse]

@haidut, ordered this product yesterday. As I understand, each drop is 1.5mg (or 1500mcg). Since the RDA for k2 is 120mcg, the product has over 12x the rda per drop, with 720 drops per bottle? Is this correct? Sounds almost too good to be true

 

[haidut]

@haidut Does your new Kuinone come in opaque white bottles that do not leech BPA or other estrogenic compounds?

We use the opaque bottles when our vendor is able to supply them. We tested both the transparent and opaque bottles and they do not leech BPA or anything else of note.

 

[haidut]

@haidut, ordered this product yesterday. As I understand, each drop is 1.5mg (or 1500mcg). Since the RDA for k2 is 120mcg, the product has over 12x the rda per drop, with 720 drops per bottle? Is this correct? Sounds almost too good to be true

Yes, that is correct. I would not trust the RDA value that much, it only shows what is minimally needed for survival, not health. Most people who report long term usage seem to use 1mg-2mg daily.

 

[YourUniverse]

Yes, that is correct. I would not trust the RDA value that much, it only shows what is minimally needed for survival, not health. Most people who report long term usage seem to use 1mg-2mg daily.

Thank you, incredible value

 

[jmojo]

Does anyone (@haidut ) have any input on having negative reactions to K2 mk4? I have tried on and off again multiple times over the years and a few days after using 1mg or so (per day), I get more anxiety, more irritable, chest tightness, less resilient to stress. There seems to be some weird hormonal shift going on. Is this indicative of liver issues? I wish I could tolerate it more with all the benefits that k2 has to offer but it's very hard to do with the unfavorable reactions I have with it.

 

[Gaga]

@haidut So if I use 6mg daily should I get off for lets say 1 week per month?
i know you mentioned you do 30mg per week. I've been using 6mg for 2 months straight with maybe 3-4 days off in total and so far has only positive feedback.

 

[haidut]

Does anyone (@haidut ) have any input on having negative reactions to K2 mk4? I have tried on and off again multiple times over the years and a few days after using 1mg or so (per day), I get more anxiety, more irritable, chest tightness, less resilient to stress. There seems to be some weird hormonal shift going on. Is this indicative of liver issues? I wish I could tolerate it more with all the benefits that k2 has to offer but it's very hard to do with the unfavorable reactions I have with it.

It can lower blood sugar and also increase GABA levels, both of which can cause some of the symptoms you mention. I would always take it food. If you do blood tests please share the results.

 

[haidut]

@haidut So if I use 6mg daily should I get off for lets say 1 week per month?
i know you mentioned you do 30mg per week. I've been using 6mg for 2 months straight with maybe 3-4 days off in total and so far has only positive feedback.

I don't know that there needs to be a break for K2. Human studies with it lasted for up to 2 years and had no serious side effects, and used much bigger doses. I think as long as it is combined with vitamin D and food it should be OK for long term use. It can stimulate the immune system, and in some people that can lead to weird digestive symptoms. Older Russian studies recommended taking a week off for every 14 days of use due to its effects on blood coagulation.

 

[jmojo]

It can lower blood sugar and also increase GABA levels, both of which can cause some of the symptoms you mention. I would always take it food. If you do blood tests please share the results.

Thanks, yeah I suspect that those could be part of the problem. I do believe though that some people just react very poorly to K2 and that we don't fully understand why. Check out some of these reviewers experiences with a K2 product (although containing both mk7 and mk4, their experiences are very similar to mine:

Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Full Spectrum VITAMIN K2 (by InnovixLabs). Provides two essential forms of K2 (MK-4 + MK-7). Total of 600 mcg of K2 per capsule. Soy-free. 90 Capsules.

 

[TreasureVibe]

As the Kuinone product currently is, are there benefits when taken orally compared to taking a different liquid vitamin K2 product like Thorne's?

For hypertension and calcification of the coronary arteries and arteries in general, what works better, Kuinone taken orally or topically? And what works best for cancer? And edema? I have read in this thread that someone mentioned that oral vitamin K2 gets packaged in chylomicrons in the intestines before absorption, would these absent chylomicrons when used topically be disadvantageous for the positive effects of vitamin K2 in the body?

Referring to the post below, taken from page 28.

Oral Vitamin K is packaged in chylomicrons in the intestines and then travels through the lymphatic system and into the blood stream. Tissues that express LPL can take up the K before it gets to the liver. Since most tissues do not take up the entire chylomicron most of it (and the K inside) probably does reach the liver.

 

[raypeatclips]

Does anyone (@haidut ) have any input on having negative reactions to K2 mk4? I have tried on and off again multiple times over the years and a few days after using 1mg or so (per day), I get more anxiety, more irritable, chest tightness, less resilient to stress. There seems to be some weird hormonal shift going on. Is this indicative of liver issues? I wish I could tolerate it more with all the benefits that k2 has to offer but it's very hard to do with the unfavorable reactions I have with it.

Is this reaction to oral, topical, or both? If oral, have you tried topically? Oral k2 seriously irritates my gut, which can cause all the symptoms you mentioned.

 

[Broken man]

As the Kuinone product currently is, are there benefits when taken orally compared to taking a different liquid vitamin K2 product like Thorne's?

For hypertension and calcification of the coronary arteries and arteries in general, what works better, Kuinone taken orally or topically? And what works best for cancer? And edema? I have read in this thread that someone mentioned that oral vitamin K2 gets packaged in chylomicrons in the intestines before absorption, would these absent chylomicrons when used topically be disadvantageous for the positive effects of vitamin K2 in the body?

Referring to the post below, taken from page 28.

I dont know answer for this but Ray Peat is taking his fat solubles topically and when you are using K2 orally, you need alot of fat with it.

The fat soluble vitamins are a great tool to help metabolism and improve overall health. However their oral usage is sometimes hindered by their requirements for ingestion of fat. In the case of vitamin K2 (MK-4) the fat requirement can be large (35g+) and thus inconvenient to implement while on the go or when restricting fat intake for various purposes.
This study claims that taurine improves the oral bioavailability of all fat-soluble vitamins and especially vitamins A and K.

 

[Broken man]

Thanks, yeah I suspect that those could be part of the problem. I do believe though that some people just react very poorly to K2 and that we don't fully understand why. Check out some of these reviewers experiences with a K2 product (although containing both mk7 and mk4, their experiences are very similar to mine:

Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Full Spectrum VITAMIN K2 (by InnovixLabs). Provides two essential forms of K2 (MK-4 + MK-7). Total of 600 mcg of K2 per capsule. Soy-free. 90 Capsules.

There have been a number of posts on the forum about various brands vitamin E irritating the gut/intestine. It seems that it may have something to do with vitamin E stimulating the immune system. Two people said vitamin E causes flares of the Chron disease, while a third said the same about his ulcerative colitis. I doubt it's just a product impurity that's causing this, but I don't know enough about the issue. However, I personally know of a few people with "autoimmune" conditions like MS and Lupus and they all complain of flareups when taking vitamin E. Ironically, it seems that even though their "symptoms" get worse their disease pathology actually improves. The person with MS was told that she had significant reduction in lesions while taking high dose vitamin E and the person with lupus had her skin lesions disappear and creatinine drop (i.e. people with lupus often have kidney problems).
So, vitamin E might be stimulating the immune system to pick up the debris like Peat said. I am not saying lookingforanswers has an "autoimmune" condition, just mentioning that vitamin E seems to be boosting the immune system response and in some people that causes a variety of symptoms, most pronounced in people with some sort of "autoimmune" disease.
A quick remedy may be to take a higher dose of vitamin A with your vitamin E. It has been shown to reduce symptoms of IBS / gastritis caused by irritants (including vitamin E). I used to get irritated stomach from Unique E (I don't take that brand any more for different reasons) several years ago, which disappeared after I took my vitamin E with 100,000 IU of retinyl acetate. Took the vitamin A for 3 days in a row and after that vitamin E stopped irritating my stomach.
Btw, vitamin K is very well known to cause stomach issues even for healthy people so if you are taking that then it may be the reason rather than the vitamin E. In the Japanese trials with MK-4 about 10% of people dropped out of the studies due to stomach issues while taking MK-4. It is officially listed as the most common side effect.

 

[jmojo]

Is this reaction to oral, topical, or both? If oral, have you tried topically? Oral k2 seriously irritates my gut, which can cause all the symptoms you mentioned.

Unfortunately I get his reaction to both oral and topical. My most recent experimentation was topical on my wrists at 1 drop per day. Side effects of anxiety, stress intolerance, chest tightness, etc. started after 2 days of usage. If I try it again at some point, I'm going to try to dilute the product and make it about 1/4 as potent.