Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[haidut]

Thanks Haidut.

I'm trying to flesh out the mechanics of all of this a little more clearly: I was reading the Lapodin thread and mention is made there that Vit K and those quinones are basically the same molecule on a continuum of potency with Vit K at the low end, tetracycline at the high end, and lapodin in the middle. I then read you and a few others say that lapodin was your "favorite" supplement that you saw the most benefits long term from...based on this I'm wondering--on a theoretical level --if it would be redundant to go high Vit K short term for liver health and supplement Estroban and Lapodin on top of it for the extra quinones, or if Vit K on its own is good enough, or if it would just be more metabolically effective to go Estroban plus Lapodin and get the extra potency...do you know of any studies indicating the overlap/redundancy/synergistic benefits of the Quinone group of molecules in tandem? I don't like engaging in practices I don't understand, and all of the new ways of looking at health and healing are extremely stimulating to my mind.

I don't think they are redundant, in fact they are quite complementary. Emodin and beta-lapachone have both been shown to prolong bleeding time in higher doses or taken long term, just like aspirin. So, Kuinone should counteract that. Also, emodin and beta-lapachone do not have the effects of vitamin K on osteocalcin, testosterone, PTH, etc. So, ideally they would be taken together.

 

[AJC]

I don't think they are redundant, in fact they are quite complementary. Emodin and beta-lapachone have both been shown to prolong bleeding time in higher doses or taken long term, just like aspirin. So, Kuinone should counteract that. Also, emodin and beta-lapachone do not have the effects of vitamin K on osteocalcin, testosterone, PTH, etc. So, ideally they would be taken together.

Very cool, thanks for the clarification. This is exciting stuff!

 

[Peatit]

I tried Kuinone orally and it has a terrible plastic taste (apart from the garlic), that makes me wonder about the safety of the plastic of the dropper with the solvent here DMSO (sorry if this potential issue has been raised elsewhere). I must say that I received my Kuinone in a jelly state, and that I microwaved it a few seconds to liquefy it again so maybe it's the reason.

 

[firebreather]

Both my wife and me have issues with waking up in the middle of the night, I'm sure that has something to do with liver.

Would taking this before bed as apposed to in the morning make any difference?

 

[haidut]

Both my wife and me have issues with waking up in the middle of the night, I'm sure that has something to do with liver.

Would taking this before bed as apposed to in the morning make any difference?

Vitamin K2 is known to cause insomnia for some people. So, I'd take it in the morning and not at night. It should help with liver no matter when it is taken though.

 

[haidut]

I tried Kuinone orally and it has a terrible plastic taste (apart from the garlic), that makes me wonder about the safety of the plastic of the dropper with the solvent here DMSO (sorry if this potential issue has been raised elsewhere). I must say that I received my Kuinone in a jelly state, and that I microwaved it a few seconds to liquefy it again so maybe it's the reason.

Kuinone should NEVER jellify. Are you sure it was Kuinone and not MitoLipin? Can you please send me a picture?

 

[firebreather]

Vitamin K2 is known to cause insomnia for some people. So, I'd take it in the morning and not at night. It should help with liver no matter when it is taken though.

Awesome, thanks so much

 

[DesertRat]

Re the Vit K induced insomnia: I used to get this from Thorne K when I took 10 drops or more, but haven't experienced it from Kuinone. In fact, I just got a new batch of Kuinone and have been feeling really tired since I got it.

 

[haidut]

Re the Vit K induced insomnia: I used to get this from Thorne K when I took 10 drops or more, but haven't experienced it from Kuinone. In fact, I just got a new batch of Kuinone and have been feeling really tired since I got it.

I have always suspected there must be some impurities in the Thorne and some other brands. Vitamin K should not cause insomnia, quite the opposite. Improving metabolism, which is what all quinones usually do, leads to relaxation and even sleepiness and not insomnia. I also get relaxed from Kuinone so I can take it at any time of the day.

 

[Peatit]

Kuinone should NEVER jellify. Are you sure it was Kuinone and not MitoLipin? Can you please send me a picture?

Here, but even if it's the wrong product, that doesn't explain the plastic taste.
I remember having read somewhere that your supplier assured you that his plastic couldn't leach even with pure ethanol but this taste makes me doubt about this statement.

 

[Rand56]

I'm one who can vouch for the insomnia on Thorne K2. It can happen with as little as 7 to 8 drops taken too late in the day. I'm going to switch to Kuinone.

 

[haidut]

Here, but even if it's the wrong product, that doesn't explain the plastic taste.
I remember having read somewhere that your supplier assured you that his plastic couldn't leach even with pure ethanol but this taste makes me doubt about this statement.

So, it looks like liquid to me, not gel. Also, the leeching of the bottle is not supposed to happen at normal temps up to 150 degrees F. If you heated the bottle a lot to the point of it melting/softening then I don't know what happens in that case. The vendor did not assure us about such cases...
Anyways, you may want to pour into another bottle, if you have a spare one with a dropper. The dosing in drops should be the same.

 

[Peatit]

So, it looks like liquid to me, not gel. Also, the leeching of the bottle is not supposed to happen at normal temps up to 150 degrees F. If you heated the bottle a lot to the point of it melting/softening then I don't know what happens in that case. The vendor did not assure us about such cases...
Anyways, you may want to pour into another bottle, if you have a spare one with a dropper. The dosing in drops should be the same.

You misunderstood, it was jelly when I received it, so I heated it a few seconds and it wasn't jelly anymore.
Maybe I heated it too much and went over 150 degrees F then.

 

[haidut]

You misunderstood, it was jelly when I received it, so I heated it a few seconds and it wasn't jelly anymore.
Maybe I heated it too much and went over 150 degrees F then.

That is even weirder. Never had another case like that happen during postal transit. I can send you a free replacement. PM me with address or order information if you are interested.

 

[Greg says]

Yesterday I took an oral dose of about 20 drops (half teaspoon), washed around my gums and felt amazing, almost euphoric all day. After a google search I read about K2's effect on getting rid of excess glutamate (or doing something with the GABA system). Something I have always thought contributory factor to my anxiety.

 

[haidut]

Yesterday I took an oral dose of about 20 drops (half teaspoon), washed around my gums and felt amazing, almost euphoric all day. After a google search I read about K2's effect on getting rid of excess glutamate (or doing something with GABA). Something I have always thought contributed to my anxiety.

Perfect, thanks for sharing!

 

[SarahBeara]

Stupid question but do you swallow after washing around your gums? Is it safe to swallow DSMO?

Yesterday I took an oral dose of about 20 drops (half teaspoon), washed around my gums and felt amazing, almost euphoric all day. After a google search I read about K2's effect on getting rid of excess glutamate (or doing something with the GABA system). Something I have always thought contributory factor to my anxiety.

 

[Greg says]

Stupid question but do you swallow after washing around your gums? Is it safe to swallow DSMO?

I swallowed it. Yeah, I believe DMSO is safe. Haidut always talks about taking it orally.

 

[AJC]

I've been taking Estroban, Lapodin, and Kuinone now for a couple weeks. Congrats on producing supplements that actually have bodily effects! After the first dose of Estroban I had an awesome feeling of fuller respiration and well-being, almost like you would get after catching your breath from exercise. But now...

Has anyone experienced "darker thoughts"/ a more low-energy/brooding state while taking a few drops of Kuinone plus Lapodin? At first I had a great feeling of well-being plus fuller and easier breaths, but lately I've been experiencing more lower energy and headaches. I'm not really sure it's from the supplements, the DMSO (which causes skin irritation), or just increased metabolic needs not getting fulfilled. This is pretty much my intro to some of the supplements recommended on this thread, and I'm using them to attempt to lower estrogen, increase metabolism, and also give my liver the nutrients it needs to kick off some more estrogen detox and blood sugar management. I was very encouraged initially by the results of the supplements, but now seem to have hit a wall of sorts. Any ideas?

 

[DankMemes]

I've been taking Estroban, Lapodin, and Kuinone now for a couple weeks. Congrats on producing supplements that actually have bodily effects! After the first dose of Estroban I had an awesome feeling of fuller respiration and well-being, almost like you would get after catching your breath from exercise. But now...

Has anyone experienced "darker thoughts"/ a more low-energy/brooding state while taking a few drops of Kuinone plus Lapodin? At first I had a great feeling of well-being plus fuller and easier breaths, but lately I've been experiencing more lower energy and headaches. I'm not really sure it's from the supplements, the DMSO (which causes skin irritation), or just increased metabolic needs not getting fulfilled. This is pretty much my intro to some of the supplements recommended on this thread, and I'm using them to attempt to lower estrogen, increase metabolism, and also give my liver the nutrients it needs to kick off some more estrogen detox and blood sugar management. I was very encouraged initially by the results of the supplements, but now seem to have hit a wall of sorts. Any ideas?

You may need to increase your caloric intake if you've introduced supplements that increase the metabolic rate.

Also I noticed that when I first introduced kuinone and upped my caffeine I felt sluggish for a few days, maybe the liver is dumping extra fat?

The mood change could be due to serotonin/estrogen from not getting enough nutrients after increasing your metabolic rate.

Aspirin, taurine and vitamin E seem to improve my mood but only if I've eaten enough.