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Kuinone - Liquid, High-dose Vitamin K2 (MK-4) Supplement

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. X160

    X160 Member

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    Just one drop on my wrist, for 15 days.
     
  2. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Perfect, this is great to hear! :-D
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The DMSO supplements that contain ethanol as well such as Pansterone, StressNon, Progestene, Lapodin should not need any skin cleaning since the ethanol is supposed to sterilize the skin before hand. But if you want to clean it anyways, getting some clear glycerin and using papertowel or cotton to scrub the ares should help. Glycerin is really good at pickign up fat residues and pathogens. Ethanol like vodka would work as well but I know some people here frown upon ethanol on the skin so that's why I am suggesting glycerin as an alternative.
     
  4. Ella

    Ella Member

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    Haidut, if one was considering opting out of the Vitamin K injection for their newborn, would Kuinone be a safe option and how would you dose if MK-4 is 4 - 5mg with longer half life.

    The literature suggests, 1mg K1 at birth then 25mcg/day from day 8, though this dose failed in babies with unrecognised liver disease.

    Do you think just dosing mother topically would be adequate and do you think the slow release in topically dosed would be comparable to slower release of vitamin K1 (1mg) from muscle tissues observed from intramuscular injections.

    Some mother are using the MK-7 orally for their babies due to longer half-life and smaller doses - 200mcg on birth and 25 mcg daily.

    The research has been with K1 so it is difficult extrapolating what to do with bub. I feel the safer route would be dosing mum and hope to god that there will be adequate levels in the breastmilk to prevent any bleeding problems in bub. Does this sound too risky?

    Would like to know your thoughts on this issue or from any one that has been in this position with the birth of their baby and on how they tackled the situation.
     
  5. johnwester130

    johnwester130 Member

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    Just ordered it.

    From personal experience, I got little benefit from mk7.

    Have you seen any studies about scalp calcification and hair loss ? Or is this an urban myth ?
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I would not use Kuinone on newborns without doctor's consultation first. DMSO has not been used on babies that much and I don't know how safe it is for them. I think if the mother's vitamin K status is good then the baby probably does not need the injections. The whole injection thing for babies is a very recent protocol and it seems like overkill unless the mother has a very high prothrombin time results on blood test, which can be easily checked. Overall, the shots have been found to be beneficial only in babies with established vitamin K deficiency, which is rare unless the mother is taking high dose vitamin E or aspirin, which is also rare. I don't know if you have heard this but the K1 injections have been tied to leukemia in children. It may be something else in the injection but it's worth keeping that in mind.
    Vitamin K | Linus Pauling Institute | Oregon State University

    So, if possible, I would ask the medical staff to run a vitamin K or coagulation test on the baby when it is born and then decide accordingly. Blood is routinely taken from babies anyways and there should be no issue running a few extra tests on it to decide of the shot is needed.
     
  7. whit

    whit Member

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    Haidut,
    thanks for the quick reply. I wasn't too worried about ethanol on my skin. I get worse than that at work on a daily basis. It's nice to have options though.
    Thanks for all you do. Much appreciated.
     
  8. tara

    tara Moderator

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    This makes sense to me.
    I had not read Peat or any of this when mine were babies, but I didn't like the idea of unnecessarily traumatic introduction to the world with injection of vit K. I opted for whatever oral alternative they offered. , I still don't think I'd go for any extra blood tests unless there was reason to believe there was trouble. If I was doing it now I'd consider going with a drop of thorne K2, maybe transdermal. Does that seem like a reasonable option?
     
  9. Ella

    Ella Member

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    Do you think DMSO is OK to use by mother during lactation or do you think it will pass into the breastmilk to baby? Yes, the leukemia link is the reason the mother does not want K1 injection for the baby. Doctor seems to think K levels are OK with mother because liver tests are normal.

    The mother was on antibiotics before pregnancy and then again 5 months into pregnancy.

    Can there be a deficiency and not show up on liver tests. At six months she started experience bleeding like a period which has continued off and on. She is due next wednesday. The bleeding was not the mucuos plug.

    Dr is testing mother for K levels and mother will request baby be tested on birth. If Vitamin K in both mother and baby are OK, do you think it is still wise to give baby 1mg of the Thorne product transdermally or just the mother orally or transdermally during the breastfeeding period?

    Haidut, I appreciate that you are not a doctor, but I think these questions are going to increase as more and more parents opt out of K1 injection.

    Tara,my understanding is that the oral version is still the synthetic K1. I agree that the transdermal route seems the safer alternative along with supplementing the mother and hope the baby is getting adequate during the breastfeeding period. I wouldn't bother with the extra tests if I was confident in the mother's nutritional status. I do have my doubts though and even if the mother is replete, this is not protection for the baby.

    Bottle fed babies receive 45.4mcg/day compared to 0.55 mcg/day for breastfed babies.

    Haidut, do you think giving 1 mg transdermally, once 3 - 4 weeks would be OK to topped up mother's milk? Or do you think it is too great a dose? How does the transdermal route compare with intermuscular in terms of delayed absorption.

    Or do you think that we are over worrying as the issue is not how much is in breastmilk but how well bub is able to absorb the K1. This does not make sense because why would breastfed babies have more problems absorbing and not bottlefed bubs that are getting 100 times more K1? So, it would seem that 1mg at birth was the protective factor.

    Thanks Haidut and Tara much appreciated for your input.

    What happened to the days when women would not tell anyone, just go out in the field and drop their baby. I hate how childbirth has been so medicalised.
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, I think a drop or two of Thorne is a good idea. But be prepared to fend off attacks from angry doctors if you do it at the hospital when the baby is born. The doctors at the delivery ward tend to be very aggressive about being against using dietary supplements on babies, which is funny since the pediatricians that come and see the child in the first 24-48 hours after birth are perfectly fine with topical vitamin D and K as long as it is a brand that they recognize or they can inspect the label and read the ingredients.
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The pediatricians I talked to a few years ago were all OK with using Thorne, but wanted to read the bottle first and even went online to research it. The doctors at the delivery ward are the worst IMO, they will push for every procedure and injection, most likely because it is fully covered by the insurance and does not have to be justified.
    So, 1-2 drops of Thorne, even weekly is probably OK. I would talk to the doctor first and if both the mother and baby have no vitamin K deficiency and/or high prothrombin time then it is likely not needed to do even the Thorne drops. But if vitamin K supplementation is desired, I would wait until the mother is out of the delivery ward and when the pediatrician comes to see the baby in the first 24 hours after birth I would approach her/him about rubbing some Thorne on the baby.
     
  12. tara

    tara Moderator

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    That may be - I didn't investigate at the time. I'm not in the US, and don't know if it would have been the same as there.
     
  13. prank

    prank Member

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    I'm trying 30mg/d as well.
    20 drops leaves a malevolent aftertaste via oral admin.
    Thus, 20 drops on my body - next to oxidil.
    You'll recognize me by my colors:
    Orange & Blue Ray Peat Tribe
     
  14. Westway

    Westway Member

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    @haidut, the first night after receiving my Kuinone i discovered it had become solid in the bottle over night, my room was relatively cold but not freezing, later the next day it had returned to normal, will this have damaged the vit K molecule??
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    No, the vitamin K is not damaged by low temps but only by bright sunlight. So, if possible, keep it in a dark cabinet when not using. No need to refrigerate.
     
  16. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

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    Haidut, I must thank you for making this wonderful supplement. It filled up the bones at the back of my skull if that makes sense. Also, next to my left ear on the sideburn area, there is little bone forming lol. Now I can tolerate vitamin D3 better. I think it's helping me because I abused vitamin E and aspirin in my previous experiments.

    My only concern is the stain. I wear white traditional clothes and the color show up underneath. Is there a critical time when the majority of the vitamin is absorbed so I can wash up the spot? I remember you saying it takes up 36 hours or something for the vitamin to be fully absorbed.
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thank you very much! I am glad it is helping. Please also watch out for jaw becoming wider. Many people noticed this effect, so if you see it as well please report here.
    About 80% absorbs within the first hour. So, if you are OK with losing the other 20% then you can wash it off afterwards.
     
  18. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

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    I've already noticed it. My face has become more square..Also my skull bone has flattened out more to fit the adjusted jaw. I've always noticed in bald people their skulls look like mountains with a prominent top.
     
  19. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

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    That's plenty. Good to know haidut thanks.
     
  20. whit

    whit Member

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    I've noticed if you blend a drop of estroban with the k the color is nearly gone within 30 min.
    Coconut oil may work too.
     
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