Kombucha is having positive energy effects on me

[wealthofwisdom]

Background; I first came to this forum looking for answers about my low energy issues. After doing more research and now more recently having gone to a naturopath and getting blood/saliva tests, I more clearly understand what my issue is: HPA Axis dysfunction. Actually I've had it my whole life, but I've called it different things - "over sensitivity", "avoidance issues"...and now it's just manifested into something stronger. Basically it's when the stress response overreacts to stimuli that a "normal" stress response should be able to handle, which then leads to a crash in energy. The whole "tire & wired" phenom. (Sometimes incorrectly called adrenal fatigue, which is a pretty deceiving label, as it's more of a "dysregulation" than a "fatigue") Ok, that's just a background.

As I'm trying different things I thought I might share what seems to be helping me out. And the latest is: Kombucha! It's only been a few times now, but whenever I drink it, it gives me the same energizing effects that niacinamide gives me. (Niacinamide is the most energizing supplement to me, only after caffeine). It's more of a "mental energy" than anything else. With my HPA issues, I often find my brain tired, even though my body doesn't seem tired. Kombucha seems to wake it up. It's really interesting.

This is purely anecdotal, but I've found a lot of great new things just from hearing about others' experiences, so I'm sharing mine. Hope it might help somebody.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Background; I first came to this forum looking for answers about my low energy issues. After doing more research and now more recently having gone to a naturopath and getting blood/saliva tests, I more clearly understand what my issue is: HPA Axis dysfunction. Actually I've had it my whole life, but I've called it different things - "over sensitivity", "avoidance issues"...and now it's just manifested into something stronger. Basically it's when the stress response overreacts to stimuli that a "normal" stress response should be able to handle, which then leads to a crash in energy. The whole "tire & wired" phenom. (Sometimes incorrectly called adrenal fatigue, which is a pretty deceiving label, as it's more of a "dysregulation" than a "fatigue") Ok, that's just a background.

As I'm trying different things I thought I might share what seems to be helping me out. And the latest is: Kombucha! It's only been a few times now, but whenever I drink it, it gives me the same energizing effects that niacinamide gives me. (Niacinamide is the most energizing supplement to me, only after caffeine). It's more of a "mental energy" than anything else. With my HPA issues, I often find my brain tired, even though my body doesn't seem tired. Kombucha seems to wake it up. It's really interesting.

This is purely anecdotal, but I've found a lot of great new things just from hearing about others' experiences, so I'm sharing mine. Hope it might help somebody.

I love kombucha! I was the saddest thing having to give it up. I praised the energy it gave me and the mental boost too. I seriously had no need to even eat sometimes! Unfortunately it eventually backfired and may be why I developed histamine issues. My husband was having digestive issues for a while earlier this year and he tried it and he felt like it helped, until it didn't. Proceed with caution cause it seems to easily fall into the catergory of "too much of a good thing".

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I love kombucha! I was the saddest thing having to give it up. I praised the energy it gave me and the mental boost too. I seriously had no need to even eat sometimes! Unfortunately it eventually backfired and may be why I developed histamine issues. My husband was having digestive issues for a while earlier this year and he tried it and he felt like it helped, until it didn't. Proceed with caution cause it seems to easily fall into the catergory of "too much of a good thing".

Thanks for sharing your story. Can you go into further detail about how it backfired? And how you know it was histamine issues? What were the side effects?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks for sharing your story. Can you go into further detail about how it backfired? And how you know it was histamine issues? What were the side effects?

I was always healthy and though a little kombucha here and there probably wouldn't have hurt, it is a fermented item and very high in histamines. Being I was drinking it daily and sometimes two bottles and consuming other high histamine items like seafood, avocados, cheeses and oranges and other fruits my body couldn't keep up with histamine load. Then came the anti-histamines, itch creams and asvoidances of healthy foods that I couldn't tolerate which took me further down the rabbit hole. Also the problem with probiotics is, what Ray Peat says, it feeds bad bacteria as well. So two steps forward and two steps back equals no progress and the possible histamine dominos could equal just steps backwards. Just a word of caution wealthofwisdom. I sure do miss it though!

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Got it. I will keep an eye out for any of those types of symptoms. Thank you.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Interestingly, I just found this from my notes (that I took 9 or so months ago, so I can't find the original page) from the CFS forum Phoenixrising.me, back when I was doing a ton of research about fatigue.

This was somebody singing the praises of histamine AND that niacin(amide) empties it. So interesting that BOTH niacin AND kombucha give me a mental boost??

This is all from one quote, I've just broken it up into paragraphs. (I searched for it again on phoenix rising to find the thread, but I couldn't find it)

I stick to minimized niacin doses nowadays because of the issue that consistent niacin intake empties histamine stores and will lower them over time and keep them low because each subsequent dose will release more histamine before it can build up.

If you have read some of my posts, you likely noticed I am a big fan of histamine, so naturally I don't want to empty it out of me. Evidence being I would be way too chilled out and not really accomplishing too much and being unproductive in general, indicating histamine was clearly lowered a lot. If the dose is lower, say 50mg/meal you will not empty histamine and it still will work to replete niacin without lowering histamine too much. I just use 250mg because its convenient so ideally for anyone considering trying it, stick to the lower more consistent doses if possible.

Histamine is necessary for drive for a career or motivation to whatever your dream is (doesnt have to necessarily be a dream job), intelligence, libido, emotions, being competitive and driven for life in general. Its involved and needed for many things but it doesnt often act alone. There are many relationships between glutamate, histamine, dopamine, and other hormones and neurotransmitters.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

And googling histamine and motivation I find this...

Histamine and motivation​

Histamine and motivation

Brain histamine may affect a variety of different behavioral and physiological functions; however, its role in promoting wakefulness has overshadowed its other important functions. Here, we review evidence indicating that brain histamine plays a central ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, but this is new and interesting to me (well I guess I forgot about it).

I think I've read mostly anti-histamine things being said here in this forum, if I recall correctly. Might have to turn this into another thread...

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Interestingly, I just found this from my notes (that I took 9 or so months ago, so I can't find the original page) from the CFS forum Phoenixrising.me, back when I was doing a ton of research about fatigue.

This was somebody singing the praises of histamine AND that niacin(amide) empties it. So interesting that BOTH niacin AND kombucha give me a mental boost??

This is all from one quote, I've just broken it up into paragraphs. (I searched for it again on phoenix rising to find the thread, but I couldn't find it)

Histamines are good for us. They ARE our immune system. Histamine intolerance, which is what I developed, is too much of a good thing. Like sugar is to a diabetic, my body now can't bring them down as quickly as normal, resulting in a variety of uncomfortable symproms.

 

[freyasam]

I have heard so many people say fermented foods help them, including people with ME/CFS. I've been eating Peat-inspired for 7 years and still pretty bad off from ME/CFS. And I take 0.75 cynomel and 0.85 cynoplus daily (that's a fairly large dose at nearly 3 grains).

I have been wanting to make some sauerkraut or kombucha, but I simply do not have the energy to do that kind of exertion. It's already a struggle to do daily tasks. And yes, I eat a carrot salad daily, liver weekly, and shellfish weekly, plenty of carbs and protein. Vitamin D level is high, too. Oh, and I am obese. I don't know if Peat's stuff helps everyone with ME/CFS.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I have heard so many people say fermented foods help them, including people with ME/CFS. I've been eating Peat-inspired for 7 years and still pretty bad off from ME/CFS. And I take 0.75 cynomel and 0.85 cynoplus daily (that's a fairly large dose at nearly 3 grains).

I have been wanting to make some sauerkraut or kombucha, but I simply do not have the energy to do that kind of exertion. It's already a struggle to do daily tasks. And yes, I eat a carrot salad daily, liver weekly, and shellfish weekly, plenty of carbs and protein. Vitamin D level is high, too. Oh, and I am obese. I don't know if Peat's stuff helps everyone with ME/CFS.

Yes I have too heard fermented things are good too, but I suppose it depends on where you are coming from and what you are subscribing too. Coming from a place of too many histamines and subscribing to Ray Peat it would counterproductive for me. You'll find good things said about low carbing, fasting, paleo too, but for those of us that signed ourselves up for Ray Peat fermented things are out.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I have heard so many people say fermented foods help them, including people with ME/CFS. I've been eating Peat-inspired for 7 years and still pretty bad off from ME/CFS. And I take 0.75 cynomel and 0.85 cynoplus daily (that's a fairly large dose at nearly 3 grains).

I have been wanting to make some sauerkraut or kombucha, but I simply do not have the energy to do that kind of exertion. It's already a struggle to do daily tasks. And yes, I eat a carrot salad daily, liver weekly, and shellfish weekly, plenty of carbs and protein. Vitamin D level is high, too. Oh, and I am obese. I don't know if Peat's stuff helps everyone with ME/CFS.

Freyasam, I hear you. I also get frustrated with all the contradicting information. The best approach in my mind, is to consider it all valuable data points, that you then get to decide what is best for you. Everybody is making potentially valid points, but you are the expert on you.

If you feel drawn to fermented foods, then that's a sign it could be good for you. I totally believe that we have a sort of inner compass that leads us to certain things. Your inner compass lead you to Peat, so I'm sure there's a lot of benefit here for you. But if something else is calling you then why not EXPERIMENT?

I encourage you to go buy a bottle (or 2) of store bought kombucha. It's delicious. I actually made it about 10 years ago (I was reading about the benefits even back then) and I can tell you store bought tastes way better than homemade.

And if you have any inner urges towards something or away from something, that could be a good sign.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Freyasam, I hear you. I also get frustrated with all the contradicting information. The best approach in my mind, is to consider it all valuable data points, that you then get to decide what is best for you. Everybody is making potentially valid points, but you are the expert on you.

If you feel drawn to fermented foods, then that's a sign it could be good for you. I totally believe that we have a sort of inner compass that leads us to certain things. Your inner compass lead you to Peat, so I'm sure there's a lot of benefit here for you. But if something else is calling you then why not EXPERIMENT?

I encourage you to go buy a bottle (or 2) of store bought kombucha. It's delicious. I actually made it about 10 years ago (I was reading about the benefits even back then) and I can tell you store bought tastes way better than homemade.

And if you have any inner urges towards something or away from something, that could be a good sign.

See now I don't get that advice wealthofwisdom. If a body is borderline obese then I don't think that body is a good judge of where to go next. Sometimes we have to use our head and not what "feels right", and make conscience decisions that has nothing to do with how something is gonna feel. I hate eating liver, but I make an intelligent decision to eat it anyway. I would much MUCH rather be drinking my wonderful kombucha, but I deny myself things that I know Ray Peat says is bad. Again we are on a Ray Peat forum, not a feel good site where anything goes. I mean no ill will, but I wish people would stick to Ray Peat science instead of all the contrary whims of what works for them or at least make a statement such as "I know Ray Peat's advice is contradictive to what i am about to say..."

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Ok, I get that. But I have a few things to say to that:

1) look up there at the quote at the very top of the page: "Perceive, Think, Act". The ultimate "Peaty" thing is to use your own mind and reasoning abilities. Based on your own perception. Of your own life. Of course wel all need input from others, since none of us knows everything internally, but "Perceive, Think, Act"...for yourself.
2) It sounds like Freya has indeed been following a "Peat inspired" diet for 7 years, and it's been frustratingly infective for them in a few ways. So blindly following just (what they perceive to be) a Peat diet isn't really working for them. At what point do they start using that Perception to Think and Act differently?
3) I feel like the purpose of the forum is to have a wide range of discussions, within the CONTEXT of a Ray Peat inspired philosophy. Peat's ideas are always the anchor or the reference point we refer back to, but a forum is a place for healthy discussions and sharing of experiences. If we were all just parroting (what we think to be) Ray's ideas about things it would turn into a boring echo chamber...and not really be truthful.
4) I didn't really say "what feels right" - I said inner urge. Or maybe better said an inner nudge. An inner nudge/curiosity is what led me to Ray Peat in the first place. I believe those to be valid enough to at least check them out.

But I understand not everybody feels that way. I'm just sharing my thoughts in the hopes they might be helpful to somebody...which is really the ultimate goal of any forum, it would seem.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Ok, I get that. But I have a few things to say to that:

1) look up there at the quote at the very top of the page: "Perceive, Think, Act". The ultimate "Peaty" thing is to use your own mind and reasoning abilities. Based on your own perception. Of your own life. Of course wel all need input from others, since none of us knows everything internally, but "Perceive, Think, Act"...for yourself.
2) It sounds like Freya has indeed been following a "Peat inspired" diet for 7 years, and it's been frustratingly infective for them in a few ways. So blindly following just (what they perceive to be) a Peat diet isn't really working for them. At what point do they start using that Perception to Think and Act differently?
3) I feel like the purpose of the forum is to have a wide range of discussions, within the CONTEXT of a Ray Peat inspired philosophy. Peat's ideas are always the anchor or the reference point we refer back to, but a forum is a place for healthy discussions and sharing of experiences. If we were all just parroting (what we think to be) Ray's ideas about things it would turn into a boring echo chamber...and not really be truthful.
4) I didn't really say "what feels right" - I said inner urge. Or maybe better said an inner nudge. An inner nudge/curiosity is what led me to Ray Peat in the first place. I believe those to be valid enough to at least check them out.

But I understand not everybody feels that way. I'm just sharing my thoughts in the hopes they might be helpful to somebody...which is really the ultimate goal of any forum, it would seem.

I can appreciate that, but so many people come onto this forum thinking they are getting Ray Peat's advice. Ray Peat did not create this forum, it is Ray Peat "inspired". I personally think people can argue their opinions all day long, but it doesn't change the science. With that being said, a lot of things have worked for me too, but I will never be sure at what cost. I hope your kombucha works for you too. I come in peace wealthofwisdom.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

PERCEIVE the science, THINK how it applies to your life, ACT by puting it into motion..

 

[freyasam]

See now I don't get that advice wealthofwisdom. If a body is borderline obese then I don't think that body is a good judge of where to go next. Sometimes we have to use our head and not what "feels right", and make conscience decisions that has nothing to do with how something is gonna feel. I hate eating liver, but I make an intelligent decision to eat it anyway. I would much MUCH rather be drinking my wonderful kombucha, but I deny myself things that I know Ray Peat says is bad. Again we are on a Ray Peat forum, not a feel good site where anything goes. I mean no ill will, but I wish people would stick to Ray Peat science instead of all the contrary whims of what works for them or at least make a statement such as "I know Ray Peat's advice is contradictive to what i am about to say..."

Interesting response. Sounds like you're suggesting that I'm just doing what "feels right" and failing to make "intelligent decisions" with my diet because I'm obese. Did you miss the part where I listed all the Peaty things I do and have done for 7 years? LOL. This is why I rarely comment online about my health issues anymore.

@wealthofwisdom thanks for your validating reply and for sharing your thoughts on kombucha.

 

[freyasam]

.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Interesting response. Sounds like you're suggesting that I'm just doing what "feels right" and failing to make "intelligent decisions" with my diet because I'm obese. Did you miss the part where I listed all the Peaty things I do and have done for 7 years? LOL. This is why I rarely comment online about my health issues anymore.

@wealthofwisdom thanks for your validating reply and for sharing your thoughts on kombucha.

Definetly not saying that freyasam. That is the frustrating part about texting things, tone gets lost. First of all we ALL have challenges on this site, especially those of us that are older. On the American charts I am considered borderline obese too, but it isn't hurting my feelings, I would rather be heavier at my age with the good skin than to be the skinny person I had always been, before "Peating", and looking my age or older. I bet you could say the same. My response to "wealth" was just venting my frustration with people making suggestions that are the exact opposite of what Ray Peat says,. I see so much of that on this site. I sincerely apologize for my words not coming out the way I intended them and offending you.

 

[freyasam]

Definetly not saying that freyasam. That is the frustrating part about texting things, tone gets lost. First of all we ALL have challenges on this site, especially those of us that are older. On the American charts I am considered borderline obese too, but it isn't hurting my feelings, I would rather be heavier at my age with the good skin than to be the skinny person I had always been, before "Peating", and looking my age or older. I bet you could say the same. My response to "wealth" was just venting my frustration with people making suggestions that are the exact opposite of what Ray Peat says,. I see so much of that on this site. I sincerely apologize for my words not coming out the way I intended them and offending you.

OK, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

OK, thanks for clarifying.

Oh gosh I felt terrible all day freyasam! Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt ?