Knee Joint Pain,keto DHt,androsterone

[Drareg]

Does anybody have any insight into why after supplementing -keto-dht,androsterone,thyroid, why some are specifically getting knee joint pain?

I understand some have gotten joint pain from lowered estrogen in other areas but the knees specifically is very interesting.
Is it a case of those joints being used more so than others,for example if I hang from a tree instead of standing will my shoulder ache more than knees even if I had monkey like strength in those joints ?:)

Copper and estrogen work together at times is some way,could it be anything along these lines?
Cortisol being lowered too much haidut mentioned,would this imply cortisol stops joints aching specifically joints for kids/teenagers who are active in sports?

 

[Risingfire]

Estrogen was probably too low. Once I stopped taking Keto my soreness went away

 

[Bodhi]

I have low cortisol and chronic knee tendon inflammation....

 

[Drareg]

This is good info to have in one place of anyone gets curious,next step is labs to back it up.

The low cortisol then seems to show up in the knee area,possibly because of more use there? Must work the same in teenagers then.

 

[Mittir]

I have used DHEA on and off for several years. I had mild finger joint
pain for the first few weeks when i tried for the first time.
I thought it was possibly something to do with
change in bone alignment or bone growth of some kind as RP grew inches
and his impacted wisdom tooth straightened after using DHEA.

Every time i reintroduced DHEA i felt a much milder finger joint pain
for few days. I never had finger joint pain before trying DHEA.
In the beginning i was taking DHEA powder without any fat.
Later i was taking DHEA with oil as RP suggested and
did not notice any pain. I was also in much better health
when i took DHEA with oil.

 

[TheHound]

I have used DHEA on and off for several years. I had mild finger joint
pain for the first few weeks when i tried for the first time.
I thought it was possibly something to do with
change in bone alignment or bone growth of some kind as RP grew inches
and his impacted wisdom tooth straightened after using DHEA.

Every time i reintroduced DHEA i felt a much milder finger joint pain
for few days. I never had finger joint pain before trying DHEA.
In the beginning i was taking DHEA powder without any fat.
Later i was taking DHEA with oil as RP suggested and
did not notice any pain. I was also in much better health
when i took DHEA with oil.

I'm supplying pansterone and androsterone and a slight finger joint pain is noticed sometimes as well

 

[ecstatichamster]

i've noticed a bit more knee pain when I walk. I think it will gradually go away. I'm using 2 - 4 drops of Androsterone and 16 drops of Pansterone daily

 

[Drareg]

Is it possible testosterone has gone too low while using dht and androsterone?
This doesn't explain dhea giving joint pain.

Low testosterone known to cause joint pain.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I'm pretty sure my testosterone is high though.

 

[Drareg]

I have used DHEA on and off for several years. I had mild finger joint
pain for the first few weeks when i tried for the first time.
I thought it was possibly something to do with
change in bone alignment or bone growth of some kind as RP grew inches
and his impacted wisdom tooth straightened after using DHEA.

Every time i reintroduced DHEA i felt a much milder finger joint pain
for few days. I never had finger joint pain before trying DHEA.
In the beginning i was taking DHEA powder without any fat.
Later i was taking DHEA with oil as RP suggested and
did not notice any pain. I was also in much better health
when i took DHEA with oil.

Do you think the dmso could be pushing it more into the joints for similar reasons dmso can alleviate joint pain?
What does the oil do ?

 

[TubZy]

I would say estrogen is too low. Try adding in some pregnenolone.

 

[ejalrp]

Recently used several supplements and meds that caused both my testosterone and DHT to spike while estradiol went down. Both knees and to an even higher degree, shoulders ached a lot. I stopped taking the supplements and pain has subsided.

 

[sladerunner69]

I added in pregnenelone to stack recently which includes androsterone, vitamins a,e,k2, b6, niacinimide, magnesium, zinc, selenium, gelatin, taurine, creatine and a diet with a lot of OJ coffee, mushrooms, eggs, milk, cheese...

My joints ache like crazy during the gym. I cant even complete a full set. Im fairly sure this is indicitive of very low estrogen and cortisol as others have pointed out. I think the only solution would be to dial back on the supplements until I find a comfortable balance.

 

[Mittir]

Do you think the dmso could be pushing it more into the joints for similar reasons dmso can alleviate joint pain?
What does the oil do ?

RP mentioned that with oil it bypasses the liver. We know that progesterone lowers
both estrogen and cortisol and it would be helpful to know if people using
progest-E gets joint pain. If low cortisol is the issue progest-e user should get
the similar symptoms as other cortisol lowering hormones.

 

[schultz]

RP mentioned that with oil it bypasses the liver. We know that progesterone lowers
both estrogen and cortisol and it would be helpful to know if people using
progest-E gets joint pain. If low cortisol is the issue progest-e user should get
the similar symptoms as other cortisol lowering hormones.

Do you think, even though the progesterone lowers cortisol, that taking the progesterone could at the same time remove any underlying joint pain? It may do both things at once (unless my line of thinking is too mechanical...)

One of the symptoms of Addison's disease is joint and muscle pain, so it doesn't seem irrational to think that low cortisol could cause joint pain.

 

[Drareg]

RP mentioned that with oil it bypasses the liver. We know that progesterone lowers
both estrogen and cortisol and it would be helpful to know if people using
progest-E gets joint pain. If low cortisol is the issue progest-e user should get
the similar symptoms as other cortisol lowering hormones.

We started a thread in PUFA and genes,in it we were discussing those who create their own PUFA easily compared to those who don't,epigentically creating so to speak,their are 2 polymorphisms noted in the thread.

I'm getting more curious when I read things like this and with Haiduts postings about saturated steroid etc is it effecting certain people in different ways because of fat metabolism related to said genes in the pufa and genes thread.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

I get the joint pain when on niacinamide, so for me I would say low cortisol might rly be a reason.

 

[Drareg]

In humans, there are two HSD11B isoforms:

HSD11B1 NADPH-dependent Highly expressed in key metabolic tissues including liver, adipose tissue, and the central nervous system. In these tissues, HSD11B1 reduces cortisone to the active hormone cortisol that activates glucocorticoid receptors.

HSD11B2 NAD+-dependent Expressed in aldosterone-selective tissues, including kidneys, liver, lungs, colon, salivary glands, HSD2 neurons and placenta. In these tissues, HSD11B2 oxidizes cortisol to cortisone and prevents illicit activation of the mineralocorticoid receptor.
Inhibition of HSD11B1 has been suggested as a possible therapy for treatment of obesity and metabolic syndrome.[3]

From the gospel of Wikipedia-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/11%CE%B2-Hydroxysteroid_dehydrogenase

I'm guessing the above 2 enzymes are involved here in joint pain, using niacinaimde could potentially increase HSD11B2.
Aspirin inhibits HSD11B1 as does 11 keto-DHT.

Is the idea then to inhibit hsd11B2 and increase hsd11B1?
The problem here then is the joint pain,we are thinking low cortisol but perhaps it's aldosterone left unopposed?

 

[sladerunner69]

I have used DHEA on and off for several years. I had mild finger joint
pain for the first few weeks when i tried for the first time.
I thought it was possibly something to do with
change in bone alignment or bone growth of some kind as RP grew inches
and his impacted wisdom tooth straightened after using DHEA.

Every time i reintroduced DHEA i felt a much milder finger joint pain
for few days. I never had finger joint pain before trying DHEA.
In the beginning i was taking DHEA powder without any fat.
Later i was taking DHEA with oil as RP suggested and
did not notice any pain. I was also in much better health
when i took DHEA with oil.

This thread is about andro/11-keto which have much more significant estrogen antagonizing properties. I doubt DHEA antagonizes estrogen at all, and likely raises it...

 

[YourUniverse]

Has anyone sustained their vitamin A intake, or kept their cortisol low, for a long period of time and had their joint pains heal or disappear? Could the cortisol have been hiding chronic injury, and lowering the immunosuppression just brings it to the surface? Surely less cortisol would be condusive to healing?