Ray Peat Interview KMUD Friday Talk 7/17/20

jamies33

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The caller was so obnoxious, talking over everyone.
 

postman

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South Korea has done more testing than probably any other country, and Sweden does have excess mortalities in 2020 compared to previous years. I'm not arguing for lockdowns or forced masks btw, but some of those things that were stated are just plainly false.

I also wonder what Ray thinks about the fact that China and Russia required their peoples to wear masks, why that is.

Some charts regarding Sweden, deaths per week.

image-1.png
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boris

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Could be because the carers in swedish old age homes let the elderly suffocate in their own ***t and piss. As you can see the spike started when the pandemic was declared and that's when people started to get scared.

Lack of PPE among biggest issues for care home treating Covid-19 patients: Swedish Radio investigation - Radio Sweden
"[employees of care facility said]...patients have been found lying in their own excrements and urine because some staff members were too scared to attend to them."

According to the higher ups it is an exaggeration (I rather believe the staff), but they admitted that some employees were scared and did not come in to work.

@Arnold Grape Sweden talked about protecting the elderly, but they didn't do any meaningful prevention for them.

What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?
"Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19."

All they did is ban your family from visiting you, the absolute worst thing you could do to them. Can you imagine being so sick that you think you are dying and you are forbidden to see your family again before you go? It is one of the worst stress you can experience.

Investigation: Elderly still being moved into Covid-19 infected nursing homes - Radio Sweden
"Despite the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, the elderly are continuing to be moved into nursing homes in Stockholm and Sörmland where Covid-19 has found to be present, according to an investigation by Swedish Radio News.
At a nursing home in Stockholm, a carer tells of a person who moved in while Covid-19 infection there was still widespread.
"I thought it was strange that people were allowed to move in because there was someone on almost every floor who had the virus," she says."
 

postman

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Could be because the carers in swedish old age homes let the elderly suffocate in their own ***t and piss. As you can see the spike started when the pandemic was declared and that's when people started to get scared.
Aren't you also asserting that masks are useless and that ventilators kill people? And now you're saying that the lack of these things lead to excess deaths? You can't have it both ways.
 

boris

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And now you're saying that the lack of these things lead to excess deaths? You can't have it both ways.

I didn't say that. Read again. Parts of it are quotes from workers. My personal points are very clearly laid out right next to it.
 

postman

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I didn't say that. Read again. Parts of it are quotes from workers. My personal points are very clearly laid out right next to it.
What are you saying? Your points are not clearly laid out at all.
 

boris

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What are you saying? Your points are not clearly laid out at all.
I can't teach you to read. Sorry. Maybe I can write it bigger and add some color?


Sweden talked about protecting the elderly, but they didn't do any meaningful prevention for them.

What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?
"Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19." [This is a quote from a worker, the part I am reffering to is IN RED]

All they did is ban your family from visiting you, the absolute worst thing you could do to them. Can you imagine being so sick that you think you are dying and you are forbidden to see your family again before you go? It is one of the worst stress you can experience.


So please tell me where exactly am I having it both ways and saying that suddenly masks and ventilators help people? Ventilators aren't mentionend anywhere. And the other posts I quoted are not about masks.
 

postman

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Last time I checked sh***ing yourself doesn't cause you to suffocate to death. Those must have been some extremely awful shits, releasing such horrible gas that the victim immediately dies when they get a whiff of it.

What a truly horrific virus.
 

boris

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By suffocating in their own ***t and piss I meant that they were left alone and not cared for. Staff said that "patients have been found lying in their own excrements and urine" because carers were to scared to come into work.
 

postman

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I can't teach you to read. Sorry. Maybe I can write it bigger and add some color?


Sweden talked about protecting the elderly, but they didn't do any meaningful prevention for them.

What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?
"Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19." [This is a quote from a worker, the part I am reffering to is IN RED]

All they did is ban your family from visiting you, the absolute worst thing you could do to them. Can you imagine being so sick that you think you are dying and you are forbidden to see your family again before you go? It is one of the worst stress you can experience.


So please tell me where exactly am I having it both ways and saying that suddenly masks and ventilators help people? Ventilators aren't mentionend anywhere. And the other posts I quoted are not about masks.
Why would they have to be protected if the virus wasn't more harmful than the standard flu? That's the assertion, that the virus is a nothingburger, not more dangerous than the seasonal flu or whatever. And now you're saying not taking special precations to protect people from this harmless virus is why people died.

Also according to recent study, Swedish pensioners are feeling better this year than previous years: Studie: Äldre mår bättre – trots pandemi
 

postman

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By suffocating in their own ***t and piss I meant that they were left alone and not cared for. Staff said that "patients have been found lying in their own excrements and urine" because carers were to scared to come into work.
That kind of stuff happens all the time in publically managed elderly care facilities.
 

boris

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Those people need care, if sick or not. The regular flu is not a "nothingburger" to old and sick people.

Why would they have to be protected if the virus wasn't more harmful than the standard flu? That's the assertion, that the virus is a nothingburger, not more dangerous than the seasonal flu or whatever. And now you're saying not taking special precations to protect people from this harmless virus is why people died.

Also according to recent study, Swedish pensioners are feeling better this year than previous years: Studie: Äldre mår bättre – trots pandemi

You are really eager to twist the words in my mouth. I am not saying that special precautions would have saved them. I said Sweden talked about protecting the elderly, but they didn't do anything that could be considered a meaningful precaution. In fact they did THE WORST they could do. Which is ban visits. Size 7 is the biggest font size available so I can't make it any more clearer to you.
 

postman

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Those people need care, if sick or not. The regular flu is not a "nothingburger" to old and sick people.



You are really eager to twist the words in my mouth. I am not saying that special precautions would have saved them. I said Sweden talked about protecting the elderly, but they didn't do anything that could be considered a meaningful precaution. In fact they did THE WORST they could do. Which is ban visits. Size 7 is the biggest font size available so I can't make it any more clearer to you.
You did suggest that the excess deaths in Sweden were caused because of lack of care (prophylactic or not).

I'm not even sure what part of healthcare it is that you think would have saved these people, change their diapers more often? Please clarify. What precautions should they have taken?

I agree that they did a horrible job at protecting the elderly. But all the things they could have done to lower the mortality rate are things that you assert are meaningless. Cognitive dissonance much?
 

boris

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I'm not even sure what part of healthcare it is that you think would have saved these people, change their diapers more often? Please clarify.

There is no need to clarify, all clearly laid out in my very first post. But because you seem to get a kick out of it, here it is again:

No.1: keep caring for the people who need care and don't leave them alone. The whole panic is unecessary in every aspect.
"[employees of care facility said]...patients have been found lying in their own excrements and urine because some staff members were too scared to attend to them."

No.2: don't keep introducing new people into infected groups. The "regular" flu which you seem to think is harmless kills people.
At a nursing home in Stockholm, a carer tells of a person who moved in while Covid-19 infection there was still widespread.
"I thought it was strange that people were allowed to move in because there was someone on almost every floor who had the virus," she says."


No.3: don't ban your family from visiting you, when you think you are dying it's one of the worst thing I can imagine
"Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. "
 

boris

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By the way we already know that many of the deaths are people who would have died in the next years of their various morbidities, with or without a COVID diagnosis. In my opinion the fearmongering and malpractice caused these deaths that would have normally happend spread out over the next 1-3 years, to shift to a concentrated earlier timeframe.

In the US there is also the thing Peat talked about. The unusual dip in all cause mortality right before the pandemic was declared, which was then compensated by COVID deaths. If there is any real excess mortality, it can only be said in a few years with the confounding factors taken into account.
 
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jamies33

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They were saying people are virtue signalling and all, just after that the caller prove them right :)
The annoying part is he asked a pretty good question, about Sweden not doing as well as they should have. I was really interested to hear the response to that especially from Ray, but the guy just kept bulldozing his way through the discussion.
 

Lejeboca

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The annoying part is he asked a pretty good question, about Sweden not doing as well as they should have. I was really interested to hear the response to that especially from Ray.

Yeah, Ray didn't get a chance to talk in this show---mot surprising---even though that his mike/voice sounded better than Andrew's It was very interesting to hear Ray's thoughts on PUFA and covid !

Re: Sweden moralities
I've heard of the same reason as @boris pointed out above. In addition, Dr. Beda Stadler has mentioned, that the Swedish government has apologized for those "excess" death of the elderly...

but the guy just kept bulldozing his way through the discussion
I guess, phone trolls continue their creed. Monkfruit sugar , anyone? :D
 

powerlifter

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The annoying part is he asked a pretty good question, about Sweden not doing as well as they should have. I was really interested to hear the response to that especially from Ray, but the guy just kept bulldozing his way through the discussion.

I also wonder Rays response, people need to learn how to argue so that everyone can benefit from the discussion. I guess Scandinavian people don't get to see sun, which causes low vitamin D levels.
 
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