KMUD - April 15, 2022: Vaccines / Authoritarianism / Tylenol

[Beastmode]

Interesting about epsom salt + BS baths. Thanks for the tip. I am pretty sure temperature increase is good for children as it helps them fight viruses but the problem is when it gets too high that the mother panics.

I"m a daddy and I can relate (the mommy panicking a bit :), however, she trusts me with all this so she went along well. It was interesting to observe in our little one this past december, when it happened, and the additional food/juices helped. I approached it as her system sorting itself out, but needing the additional fuel to support it. I think where parents go really wrong is the increase in body temp/pulse don't get supported properly with additional fuel (proper of course) during this process. So when parents let their kids ride it out, things might turn bad because the lack of fuel is what actually created the "negative" effects of the fever.

Hope that makes sense?

p.s- Our little one took more poops during this time which was a good thing :)

 

[milk_lover]

I"m a daddy and I can relate (the mommy panicking a bit :), however, she trusts me with all this so she went along well. It was interesting to observe in our little one this past december, when it happened, and the additional food/juices helped. I approached it as her system sorting itself out, but needing the additional fuel to support it. I think where parents go really wrong is the increase in body temp/pulse don't get supported properly with additional fuel (proper of course) during this process. So when parents let their kids ride it out, things might turn bad because the lack of fuel is what actually created the "negative" effects of the fever.

Hope that makes sense?

p.s- Our little one took more poops during this time which was a good thing :)

Makes perfect sense thanks for the explanation! It makes sense, similar to thyroid and any temperature increasing substance. You need good food to support its healing powers or the reservoir will be emptied and it works against you. What do you do when they lose appetite when sick? Sometimes when the temperature goes too high, the mother gets scared when she sees the child shivering. I try to calm her and she trusts me because many of Peat ideas helped her and helped both of our families...

 

[Beastmode]

Makes perfect sense thanks for the explanation! It makes sense, similar to thyroid and any temperature increasing substance. You need good food to support its healing powers or the reservoir will be emptied and it works against you. What do you do when they lose appetite when sick? Sometimes when the temperature goes too high, the mother gets scared when she sees the child shivering. I try to calm her and she trusts me because many of Peat ideas helped her and helped both of our families...

Our kid has never lost her appetite so I can't speak from direct experience in this case. However, I might give the child some choices of salty snacks to possibly stimulate the appetite. Obviously, it will come down to what they're willing to have. However, the epsom salt/baking soda bath might help with this. Maybe keep a smoothie near the bath to help keep blood sugar supported, etc. Salty broths can help as well.

When the mother gets scared, make sure her blood sugar is well supported as she can't support another if she's not supported :)

Love, kindness and presence will carry a lot of "weight" with a child. We always figure out what to do whenever something is going on with our little one. They're amazing at giving feedback as well to what they need when we "listen."

Hope that stimulates some of your own insight.

 

[milk_lover]

Our kid has never lost her appetite so I can't speak from direct experience in this case. However, I might give the child some choices of salty snacks to possibly stimulate the appetite. Obviously, it will come down to what they're willing to have. However, the epsom salt/baking soda bath might help with this. Maybe keep a smoothie near the bath to help keep blood sugar supported, etc. Salty broths can help as well.

When the mother gets scared, make sure her blood sugar is well supported as she can't support another if she's not supported :)

Love, kindness and presence will carry a lot of "weight" with a child. We always figure out what to do whenever something is going on with our little one. They're amazing at giving feedback as well to what they need when we "listen."

Hope that stimulates some of your own insight.

Thanks! Children try their best to communicate with us even without a language.

My God protect your child and all of our children from what's going on right now in the world.

 

[Lollipop2]

My God protect your child and all of our children from what's going on right now in the world.

Yes, please help protect the world. We need that protection!

 

[tokimaturi]

When a child body temperature goes up, what are you supposed to give to the child to reduce his/her temperature? The doctors here prescribe paracetamol which is another name for acetaminophen and it actually helps their temperature to go down. @haidut any suggestion would be appreciated.

As I recall the increased risk of Reyes Syndrome happened when aspirin was administrated to a young children with a fever caused by a viral infection. The problem with Reyes is that it's hard to define and not well understood in the first place. Also according to one study about half the cases assumed to be Reyes were in fact not. Dr Peat said that in more cases in Australia the child was actually administrated paracetamol and not aspirin. Didn't say about the risk ratio though.

In any case, the increased risk of the Reyes Syndrome after a viral infection while possibly significant is poorly defined and still a very small risk. Nevertheless due to the lack of information I've avoided giving aspirin to small children with a fever especially a viral one.

However, by personal experience, the mother taking aspirin herself in order to pass some on when breastfeeding a baby, seems to have a positive effect. Another substance to very potently lower inflammatory and fever would be gelatin. In practise we've used chicken broth and a broth made from lamb's and/or pig's bones and joints with good results.

 

[Beastmode]

As I recall the increased risk of Reyes Syndrome happened when aspirin was administrated to a young children with a fever caused by a viral infection. The problem with Reyes is that it's hard to define and not well understood in the first place. Also according to one study about half the cases assumed to be Reyes were in fact not. Dr Peat said that in more cases in Australia the child was actually administrated paracetamol and not aspirin. Didn't say about the risk ratio though.

In any case, the increased risk of the Reyes Syndrome after a viral infection while possibly significant is poorly defined and still a very small risk. Nevertheless due to the lack of information I've avoided giving aspirin to small children with a fever especially a viral one.

However, by personal experience, the mother taking aspirin herself in order to pass some on when breastfeeding a baby, seems to have a positive effect. Another substance to very potently lower inflammatory and fever would be gelatin. In practise we've used chicken broth and a broth made from lamb's and/or pig's bones and joints with good results.

My wife took aspirin during her entire time of breastfeeding (2.5 years) was never an issue.

I'll have to find the email, but Peat told me all the propaganda around aspirin was debunked.

If the original stuff out of Australia was debunked, would you still look at aspirin as a small risk towards children? If so, how exactly?

I ask this to provoke your thought process on this, not to be vitriol.

 

[tokimaturi]

My wife took aspirin during her entire time of breastfeeding (2.5 years) was never an issue.

I'll have to find the email, but Peat told me all the propaganda around aspirin was debunked.

If the original stuff out of Australia was debunked, would you still look at aspirin as a small risk towards children? If so, how exactly?

I ask this to provoke your thought process on this, not to be vitriol.

According to the study I've seen the risk was indeed slightly higher for both aspirin and paracetamol. But the other factors still apply, such as many cases being misdiagnosed and the whole syndrome being vaguely defined. I've also never heard or read Dr Peat explicitly saying aspirin is safe for small children just that the alternatives aren't safe either or that there is not really much evidence to it's harmful effect. And it's true, as far as I know there really hasn't been any studies that conclusively show aspirin to safe for children, but neither has there been studying showing it to be clearly harmful either.

I wouldn't think anything of it if someone gave a child small dosage of aspirin for fever. I simply prefer to be cautious about using something I don't feel there is enough evidence for, especially when I don't think I'm missing on anything in not using it since there are alternatives like gelatin and since passing salicylates through breast milk solve any problems with oral administration and it's easy to keep the dose moderate.

 

[Beastmode]

According to the study I've seen the risk was indeed slightly higher for both aspirin and paracetamol. But the other factors still apply, such as many cases being misdiagnosed and the whole syndrome being vaguely defined. I've also never heard or read Dr Peat explicitly saying aspirin is safe for small children just that the alternatives aren't safe either or that there is not really much evidence to it's harmful effect. And it's true, as far as I know there really hasn't been any studies that conclusively show aspirin to safe for children, but neither has there been studying showing it to be clearly harmful either.

I wouldn't think anything of it if someone gave a child small dosage of aspirin for fever. I simply prefer to be cautious about using something I don't feel there is enough evidence for, especially when I don't think I'm missing on anything in not using it since there are alternatives like gelatin and since passing salicylates through breast milk solve any problems with oral administration and it's easy to keep the dose moderate.

Peat is the first to say if something is dangerous/harmful. I do believe it's not the first thing he'd suggest for a small child since there are so many things one can do before that. They don't call it baby aspirin for nothing.

When our 4 year old had a 101-102 fever, for about a week, we focused more on supporting her system with more energy rather than focusing on getting the # down. She eats "peaty" already, her whole life so far, so we just ramped up her fruits, chicken feet soup, salt, adequate sunlight and epsom salt baths (nightly.)

I think the big mistake we parents forget is to try and get rid off something vs simply supporting the system with more energy as it has it's own wisdom on how to handle what's going on.