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Karmeleon

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Messages
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Are you sure about the anticholinergic effect?

Hydroxyzine​


Primer​

Hydroxyzine is a first-generation antihistamine (and anticholingeric) with a variety of uses and indications, including uses as an anxiolytic.

Mechanism of Action​

Hydroxyzine's predominant mechanism of action is as a potent and selective histamine (H1) receptor inverse agonist. This action is responsible for its antihistamine and sedative effects. Unlike other first-generation antihistamines like diphenhydramine (tradename: Benadryl), hydroxyzine has very low affinity for the muscarinic (acetylcholine) receptors. Therefore it is not a muscarinic receptor antagonist, which means it has very little anticholinergic side effects.
Hydroxyzine has also been shown to act as an antagonist of the serotonin 5-HT2A receptor, the dopamine D2 receptor, and the α1-adrenergic receptor. The weak anti-serotonergic effects of hydroxyzine make it useful as an anxiolytic, as other antihistamines without such properties have not been found to be effective in the treatment of anxiety.

I didn't notice much anticholinergic sides, dry mouth etc., maybe the endotoxin (which is known to do) slowed or stopped peristalsis? This would mean you were absorbing a lot of endotoxin aka ivermectin was clearing you up. It would be an idea to pulse with AC + coconut oil or pregnelenone/progesterone to suck up the free endotoxin. Also 10k Vitamin A (somewhere in the vitamin A posts here in the forum) enhances endotoxin clearance. I noticed some "raised" estrogen with more "intestinal cleanup" aka endotoxin exposure too, so if I notice that, I take countermeasures as low starch, champignon mushrooms, ac, camphosal etc.,
as a male I couldn't speak about or experience PMS (luckily), so the only thing pointing to that are maybe the cyclical migraines.
If the combo of ivermectin and hydroxyzine is working well, a raised endotoxin level would be logical as Toxoplasma like organisms are gram-negative and if killed release a lot LPS.

Is Ivermectin free to buy in Bulgaria? If yes import would be easy as it is EU-EU country without special inspection rules customs wise.
 
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Karmeleon

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Messages
84

####
Abstract Title:
In vitro treatment of Toxoplasma gondii with copper(II) complexes induces apoptosis-like and cellular division alterations

Abstract Sourc
Vet Parasitol. 2017 Apr 20. Epub 2017 Apr 20. PMID: 2859236

Abstract Author(s
J A Portes, C S Motta, N F Azeredo, C Fernandes, A Horn, W De Souza, R A DaMatta, S H Seabr

Article Affiliatio
J A Porte

Abstrac
Toxoplasma gondii is the causative agent of toxoplasmosis, which is one of the most common parasitic diseases in the world. This pathogen causes severe damage to immunocompromised hosts, and the most frequently used therapy is the combination of pyrimethamine and sulfadiazine, which has side effects. Thus, there is a need for new therapies that target T. gondii. Herein, we present the anti-Toxoplasma effect of two new copper(II) complexes: [(H2L1) Cu (μ-Cl)2 Cu(H2L1)] Cl2·5H2O (1) and [(H2L2) Cu (μ-Cl)2 Cu(H2L2)] Cl2·6H2O (2). Complexes (1) and (2) irreversibly controlled parasite growth in vitro, with IC50 values of 0.78μM and 3.57μM, respectively, after 48h. These complexes induced part of the tachyzoite population to convert to bradyzoites, which eventually die. The cell death mechanism was unknown, but signs of apoptosis, such as membrane blebs and nuclear fragmentation, and necrosis, such as plasma membrane disruption, intense cytoplasm vesiculation and the release of cellular contents, were seen. In addition, complex (2) interfered with the correct disposition of the inner membrane complex of the parasite, affecting cell division. These results indicate that these copper complexes have potential effects against T. gondii and may be used as drugs in the future or serve as prototypes for the development of new drugs to treattoxoplasmosis
.t:sn:a):2e:.oxoplasmosis.

###€€€

After some optimization of my personal regime and adding a copper supplement back in (3mg not 2 fancy) i had some badass migraine attack. After beeing courios about the effect and disapperance of a nasty head cold, sinus inflammation i found this gem.

I also edited my supps, dropping lisuride and instead opting for gonadin+ 4drops and 5-6drops diamant instead working like a charm.
I also made sure i get vitamin a metabolism full on track with 800mcg quatrefolic, 1500mg niacinamide, b2 r5p 10-15mg, b6 p5p 10mg, and 10k IU D3 with a modest 7.500-10.000IU retinyl acetat. Seems to be further improving.
I dropped hydroxizine a few weeks ago because of liver concerns, but took it for 8 weeks with a 12.5mg dosage. I kept the herbs though because they help a lot with allergies, (astralagus, Baicalensis, added houtynia).

Maybe copper is the key to conquer that nasty b****?
 

Ben.

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Messages
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Location
Austria
Maybe copper is the key to conquer that nasty b****?

I think copper sulphate used to be a common pesticide/fungizide in agriculture/farming altough i'm not sure how widespread it is anymore. According to quite a few people copper is something we are apparantly deficient in (?). Would also explain the increased likelyhood of getting infected by something and not being able to shake stuff off considering how vital it is to our cellular processes.

It's also one of the few things that actually works somehwat against my tongue coating. The nause, while shortlived, (5 mins or so) is still realy unpleasant. There is also this controversy about copper I and copper II and which one is actually bioavailable for our body's cell's to work with. Altough this controversy came up due the cuprious niacin copper version (copper I) made by mitosynergy. Not sure if it's a marketing gag because copper II definiately works as a antimicrobial in humans.

Keep us posted how well it works as a additional aid.
 

Ben.

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Oct 6, 2020
Messages
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Location
Austria
Hey man,

Was wondering how its going. Anything new on the toxoplasmosis front?
 
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K

Karmeleon

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2020
Messages
84
Hey,

I am doing pretty well after after implementation of a copper supplement on top. Just balancing out Vitamin D and Vitamin A supplementation with corresponding B-Vitamin needs atm. It feels like the body could take over after it breached a certain point of infection state. The herbals are a big help on the inflammatory side of things (baicalin and astralagus for lungs, houttuynia for suspected sibo of mouth orifice germs). I guess the addition of lapodin @5 drops per meal (and a mix of 2g taurin, 3-5g glycine, 100mg inosine, 100mg succinic acid, b2) are also shifting ecerything in the right direction digestion wise.
Intersting feat was a recent trial of adding in some milk thistle tincture (100mg silymarin) and olive leaf extract (200mg oleopurin), got some nasty headache and diarrhea for a few days and settling afterwards with big improvement of available enegy and better digestion.
So i think its really arround some high'er Serotonin and subsequent raised cortisol which got me into the shape in the first place.
If i stop supping b3 (1-2g a day) or missing the herbs i start to deteriorate again, so healing is not achieved completely. Also i noticed that i need more T3-T4 mix to get everything gut related run smoothly, which could be a lowering of stress based metabolism and revealing underlying hypothyroidism.

I was into medium distance Triathlon type sports before i fell ill, so i sure downregulated sugar burning metabolism. But turning point was a round of Ciprofloxacin 10 days and some subsequent ct scans of the head and jaw/teeth/sinus and massive digestion problems before i started to fall apart. In this case i think toxoplasmosis related problems or "resurfacing" of a chronic infection was for sure immune suppression in my case.

Still figuring and sorting things out, but health continues to get better overall.

Sorry for the late answer had some work related stress the last weeks.
 
OP
K

Karmeleon

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2020
Messages
84
I think copper sulphate used to be a common pesticide/fungizide in agriculture/farming altough i'm not sure how widespread it is anymore. According to quite a few people copper is something we are apparantly deficient in (?). Would also explain the increased likelyhood of getting infected by something and not being able to shake stuff off considering how vital it is to our cellular processes.

It's also one of the few things that actually works somehwat against my tongue coating. The nause, while shortlived, (5 mins or so) is still realy unpleasant. There is also this controversy about copper I and copper II and which one is actually bioavailable for our body's cell's to work with. Altough this controversy came up due the cuprious niacin copper version (copper I) made by mitosynergy. Not sure if it's a marketing gag because copper II definiately works as a antimicrobial in humans.

Keep us posted how well it works as a additional aid.
Weird thing about copper intake is or erroneous assumption of high intake, i was eating quite a bit of beef or veal liver thinking of getting enough (50-75g evey 2 days, as liver dumplings, ragu or homemade sausage) but still was deficient or had so damn high needs. Or there is some underlying problem in uptake, hidden celiac damage or pathogen inflammatory damage of small intestine that only synthetic supplements (pre digested?) could make a dent in nutrition.
I also do think reliance on food database information - usda, Chronometer, is giving false impression of mico nutrient content.
I searched a austrian database and cow liver per 100g cooked, was at 3.3mg copper content and way more vitamin a (110.000iu or so). That was data from 2018, so micronutrients could vary widely and it seems lifestock is supped with enough vitamins but are low - very low in minerals (maybe no supplementation?). Just to think about, my 2c
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
Hey,

I am doing pretty well after after implementation of a copper supplement on top. Just balancing out Vitamin D and Vitamin A supplementation with corresponding B-Vitamin needs atm. It feels like the body could take over after it breached a certain point of infection state. The herbals are a big help on the inflammatory side of things (baicalin and astralagus for lungs, houttuynia for suspected sibo of mouth orifice germs). I guess the addition of lapodin @5 drops per meal (and a mix of 2g taurin, 3-5g glycine, 100mg inosine, 100mg succinic acid, b2) are also shifting ecerything in the right direction digestion wise.
Intersting feat was a recent trial of adding in some milk thistle tincture (100mg silymarin) and olive leaf extract (200mg oleopurin), got some nasty headache and diarrhea for a few days and settling afterwards with big improvement of available enegy and better digestion.
So i think its really arround some high'er Serotonin and subsequent raised cortisol which got me into the shape in the first place.
If i stop supping b3 (1-2g a day) or missing the herbs i start to deteriorate again, so healing is not achieved completely. Also i noticed that i need more T3-T4 mix to get everything gut related run smoothly, which could be a lowering of stress based metabolism and revealing underlying hypothyroidism.

I was into medium distance Triathlon type sports before i fell ill, so i sure downregulated sugar burning metabolism. But turning point was a round of Ciprofloxacin 10 days and some subsequent ct scans of the head and jaw/teeth/sinus and massive digestion problems before i started to fall apart. In this case i think toxoplasmosis related problems or "resurfacing" of a chronic infection was for sure immune suppression in my case.

Still figuring and sorting things out, but health continues to get better overall.

Sorry for the late answer had some work related stress the last weeks.


No worries man im slow too in answering posts^^. Realy glad you were able to find some improvements. Havent found Aspirin pure powder yet but it's not a priority atm. I gotta tell you this thread is a little treasure in terms of information for me, thanks for that. I'd like to add a anecdote of mine, perhaps it might contain some usefull information:

While i do not know what bug exactly im infected with i seem to react very positiviely to antihelmintics and antimalaria supplements, herbs and meds. Mind you i've been suffering chronic health issues ever since a bug bit me in the forrest.

Cistus Incanus tea (big shoutout to @Korven) is something that i've been drinking regulary for 2-3 weeks nowand oh boy that stuff is making stuff surface like crazy. It didn't do much before but i never dosed and used a potency as i do now. It is apparantly a very potent bio-film buster and my symptoms during that time and now only agree to that statement. Dr. Klinghardt and a few lymeguides recommend it. Coudn't get to drink more than 2-3 cups thus far because i'm limited in how much liquid i can drink per day but lyme sufferers even go up to 6 to 8 cups. Rebrewing the leafs 2-3 times for max potency or bring to a boil and let it sit in the hot water for 30 mins works too. DIgestion has markedly sped up aslong as i drink it.

Other than that i've been using some lyme herbs such as cryptolepsis, japanese knotweed, artemesin annua, scutelaria baicalensis and ucaria rhynchophylla.

These things realy helped me to get out of a 3-4 week occurence of crippling fatigue that i started to suffer suddenly last 1-2months or so, so i had to take serious action as a yet another regretful docot visit failed me yet again.

I have my eyes on the colloidal silver you've already mentioned atleast as a mouthwash because i've read a anecdote of it helping a person with severe dental issues caused by bartonella and i swear my dental health is horrible despite all efforts, mouthwashes, toothpastes, supplements, dentists, brushes etc. that i've tried ever since this health decline happened.

I've also came across cinnamon oil which you had mentioned too in this thread and it's ability to cross the blood brain barrier which i guess would be very benefitial with toxoplasmosis? There was hype around it in 2014 for lyme/bartonella/babessia but the information seems limited in terms of anecdotes/testimonials. However the following statement got me intrigued:

"The big triple punch combination of "PMS" (Phenylpropanoids, Monoterpenes, and Sesquiterpenes) found in essential oils is very powerful in addressing many illnesses, injuries, and disease conditions. That is because this combination offers the following:
First, you clean the receptor sites allowing the proper transfer of hormones, peptides, neurotransmitters, steroids, and other intracellular messengers. (The Phenylpropanoids do that.)
Second, you deprogram or erase the wrong information from cellular memory stored in the DNA. (The Sesquiterpenes take care of that.)
Third, you reprogram the cells with the correct information so they can function properly. (The Monoterpenes do this.)
These three classes of chemical components are why essential oils can sometimes affect a healing that is nearly instant and also permanent. What they simply do is to restore the body back to its natural state of balance and health. While a specific oil may have one or two of these three classes of compounds as its predominant chemistry, all the Biblical oils contain some of all of them. This is one secret to their amazing healing abilities."


Now wether that is true or not ceylon cinnamon is recommended on this forum for ammonia anyhow which i think is important when going on a killing spree on thoose bugs. I have to note i react realy well to L-Ornithine which only strengthens me in my approach. I tried 2 drops cinnamon leaf essential oil last weekend and while i didn't notice anything digestion wise i got a killer headache for a few hours but i swear to got i had a insanely good sleep with vivid dreams that night. Powerful stuff. Apparantly harm/toxicity can already occur at 5-6 drops so one drop should already suffice depending on ones sensitivity.


Similar to you i use taurin, choline, glycine and sometimes tudca to offset potential issues because i noticed these herbs realy put a hard strain on the liver. Selenium and Potassium are two things i react nicely too along with lithium and boron so i use them occasionally aswell. I might try adding b-vitamins, q10 and copper again into my protocol.

The copper issue you just mentioned would also be my experience. Pure copper sulfate taken orally dissolved in water was the only thing that actually got rid of my tongue coating (altough only short term sadly). If these bugs are in the mucosa all the way up to the mouth/nose than it might be better to dissolve copper, b-vitamins etc. in water first so it coats all the walls before it hits the stomache. As you said it the effectivness of copper is completly different taken this way than getting it from food. Copper taken this way also seems to noticably reduce my chronic brainfog.

I think i go for 2-3 days off and repeat with my approach again and will cycle that way. My current situation after doing/taking these things is both interesting but also very odd but this post is already to needlesly long and perhaps to offtopic.

Please keep us updated on your progress when your time allows you to do so.
 
OP
K

Karmeleon

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2020
Messages
84
No worries man im slow too in answering posts^^. Realy glad you were able to find some improvements. Havent found Aspirin pure powder yet but it's not a priority atm. I gotta tell you this thread is a little treasure in terms of information for me, thanks for that. I'd like to add a anecdote of mine, perhaps it might contain some usefull information:

While i do not know what bug exactly im infected with i seem to react very positiviely to antihelmintics and antimalaria supplements, herbs and meds. Mind you i've been suffering chronic health issues ever since a bug bit me in the forrest.

Cistus Incanus tea (big shoutout to @Korven) is something that i've been drinking regulary for 2-3 weeks nowand oh boy that stuff is making stuff surface like crazy. It didn't do much before but i never dosed and used a potency as i do now. It is apparantly a very potent bio-film buster and my symptoms during that time and now only agree to that statement. Dr. Klinghardt and a few lymeguides recommend it. Coudn't get to drink more than 2-3 cups thus far because i'm limited in how much liquid i can drink per day but lyme sufferers even go up to 6 to 8 cups. Rebrewing the leafs 2-3 times for max potency or bring to a boil and let it sit in the hot water for 30 mins works too. DIgestion has markedly sped up aslong as i drink it.

Other than that i've been using some lyme herbs such as cryptolepsis, japanese knotweed, artemesin annua, scutelaria baicalensis and ucaria rhynchophylla.

These things realy helped me to get out of a 3-4 week occurence of crippling fatigue that i started to suffer suddenly last 1-2months or so, so i had to take serious action as a yet another regretful docot visit failed me yet again.

I have my eyes on the colloidal silver you've already mentioned atleast as a mouthwash because i've read a anecdote of it helping a person with severe dental issues caused by bartonella and i swear my dental health is horrible despite all efforts, mouthwashes, toothpastes, supplements, dentists, brushes etc. that i've tried ever since this health decline happened.

I've also came across cinnamon oil which you had mentioned too in this thread and it's ability to cross the blood brain barrier which i guess would be very benefitial with toxoplasmosis? There was hype around it in 2014 for lyme/bartonella/babessia but the information seems limited in terms of anecdotes/testimonials. However the following statement got me intrigued:

"The big triple punch combination of "PMS" (Phenylpropanoids, Monoterpenes, and Sesquiterpenes) found in essential oils is very powerful in addressing many illnesses, injuries, and disease conditions. That is because this combination offers the following:
First, you clean the receptor sites allowing the proper transfer of hormones, peptides, neurotransmitters, steroids, and other intracellular messengers. (The Phenylpropanoids do that.)
Second, you deprogram or erase the wrong information from cellular memory stored in the DNA. (The Sesquiterpenes take care of that.)
Third, you reprogram the cells with the correct information so they can function properly. (The Monoterpenes do this.)
These three classes of chemical components are why essential oils can sometimes affect a healing that is nearly instant and also permanent. What they simply do is to restore the body back to its natural state of balance and health. While a specific oil may have one or two of these three classes of compounds as its predominant chemistry, all the Biblical oils contain some of all of them. This is one secret to their amazing healing abilities."


Now wether that is true or not ceylon cinnamon is recommended on this forum for ammonia anyhow which i think is important when going on a killing spree on thoose bugs. I have to note i react realy well to L-Ornithine which only strengthens me in my approach. I tried 2 drops cinnamon leaf essential oil last weekend and while i didn't notice anything digestion wise i got a killer headache for a few hours but i swear to got i had a insanely good sleep with vivid dreams that night. Powerful stuff. Apparantly harm/toxicity can already occur at 5-6 drops so one drop should already suffice depending on ones sensitivity.


Similar to you i use taurin, choline, glycine and sometimes tudca to offset potential issues because i noticed these herbs realy put a hard strain on the liver. Selenium and Potassium are two things i react nicely too along with lithium and boron so i use them occasionally aswell. I might try adding b-vitamins, q10 and copper again into my protocol.

The copper issue you just mentioned would also be my experience. Pure copper sulfate taken orally dissolved in water was the only thing that actually got rid of my tongue coating (altough only short term sadly). If these bugs are in the mucosa all the way up to the mouth/nose than it might be better to dissolve copper, b-vitamins etc. in water first so it coats all the walls before it hits the stomache. As you said it the effectivness of copper is completly different taken this way than getting it from food. Copper taken this way also seems to noticably reduce my chronic brainfog.

I think i go for 2-3 days off and repeat with my approach again and will cycle that way. My current situation after doing/taking these things is both interesting but also very odd but this post is already to needlesly long and perhaps to offtopic.

Please keep us updated on your progress when your time allows you to do so.
Hey,

I think my trouble too started after a nasty tick bite '15 and a regretfull 3 weeks course of bactrim, and following Ciprofloxacin (14 of 21 days) course. It was first thought of bad kidney infection, I didn't know at the time that immunoglobulin/lps artefacts could damage the kidneys as well as the thiamine /folate deficiency the abx causes. Long story told, i went from fit triathlete training to nearly crippled in three months.
I don't know to this day if got lyme or more bugs as tests are unreliable.
So i treat by symptoms and an igg positive for toxoplasmosis. Toxoplasma is bartonella alike a protozoa and both hide in the endothelial and tissue.
In my approach i heavily lean on total restauration off tissue with nutrition, based on peats books, one megavitamin therapy and treatment of tuberculosis by nutritional supplements. This two had a huge impact on daily functioning and immunity.
I tested anti toxoplasmosis suppression antihistamine and herbs and got pleasantly surprised by stopping of ibs and immune infection symptoms, so guess what is plaguing me haha very likely a bingo.
I guess i got bartonella too, both give you horrible tooth health, which like you, i have/had extreme trouble with.

For teeth/gum health, it seems to be really important to get blood flow going, by lowering serotonin and thin the blood enough.
I take aspirin atleast 650mg a day, ketotifen as anti histamine/Serotonin agent.
Also folate seems really important for gum health 1mg quatrefolic and 1mg b12, for antibody production in gum health 100-500mg pantothenic acid(****88 up gut flora i guess) and b6 p5p 10mg topical(i dont have any response from oral b6??, Likely sibo??)
What changed course anti critter, anti malarial wise was to add baicalin 500mgx2, astralagus, houttuynia and olive leaf extract.
The olive leaf extract also seems to be a very potent aromatase inhibitor, very nice, and is active against h pylori, candida and staph (did a post on this).

I do think that a big chunk of ****88 up gum and gut health is because of micro thrombosis and subsequent infection by staphylococcus and streptococcus. Maybe also h pylori and Campylobacter (spirochetes like lyme) are also disabling good nutrient uptake and digestion. I also got extremely tired after eating starches, could only digest goat milk okay and fruits, meat was extremely difficult and i got calcium deficiency symptoms all the time (but got 2g+ in diet).
I added 10k! D3 and supp with either liver 2x week or 10k vitamin A a day.
After the herbs and bringing d3 up (i think) i can digest starches again, so my net nutrition intake gets up and i am getting better overall.

Whats very helpful is on top of all that is daily:
Milk thistle - immune modulatory, beta glucoronidase inhibitor (estrogen detox), liver
Glycine 10-15g+ gelatjne 30g+
Taurine 5g+
Succinic acid 250-500mg x3
Inosine 100-250mg x3
Niacinamid 250-1000mg x3-4
Thiamin 300mg+ topical mixed in mitolipin
B2 R5P 5mg x3
Magnesium malate 200mg x3
BCAA 3500mg x1-3
Copper citrate 2mg - not every day
Zinc glycinate 25mg - split
Creatine 5-10g
Mitolipin, defibron
Calcium 2g+
Potassium 5g+
Gum pain: aspirin sucking and 10% propolis

I also try to go by pulse and temp for thyroid, which is still extremely erratic, 3x thyromix 1drop currently. I do better with androsteron 5-10mg. Cortinon+ 5drops and 12-24+ drops pregnenolone, and boy sometimes i really knock me out by literally drinking progest-e for migraine on top haha.

For candida, i think klinghardt once wrote somewhere candida think lead,pb intoxication.
I do also have symptoms of lead, pb toxicity and more calcium and thiamine helps.
I had bad teeth from childhood on, maybe were the ****88 Chernobyl generation too.
Nobody ever in upper austria or salzburg that i know got screened for radioisotope poisoning, besides cases of obvious cancer.
So maybe to check that too l, for ongoing immune suppression (liver nafld, Chernobyl aids etc, heavy metal toxicity, hypothyroidism, hormone trouble, bad teeth...).
My approach takes into account highly possible stored? Radioisotopes and we've got winter diesel with lead so metal toxicity is highly likely.

Russian children in belarus, from fallout contaminated regoins, get 500mg succinic acid 2-3 times a day for mitochondrio pathy, and b vitamins -cytoflavin like.
Also they get 2-3x times a year apple pectin for ceasium detoxification for a month, maybe its working for lead too. magnesium for Strontium.

Diet wise, as i am too, limited by what i can digest:
0.75l goat milk + sugar
Eggs
3 quail eggs raw a day - anti allergy
Cheese
Meat not to much 200g max
Oj, aj everything thats digestible
Some rice
Potato protein soup - starch is horribl
Some veges for taste
Cooked fresh tomatoes
Atleast 70-120g protein a day

300-700g sugar, honey, fruit the more the better
Cocoa butter, butter, beef fat, coconut 60-120g a day

This is my current approach, i tweak it periodically but thats baseline for now.
Seems to be working fine atm.
I some disclaimer now haha:
i don't encourage anyone my approach atm.

I still hope it helps somewhat.
Ps lapodin is also good for teeth and gum infection/inflammation
 
OP
K

Karmeleon

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2020
Messages
84
No worries man im slow too in answering posts^^. Realy glad you were able to find some improvements. Havent found Aspirin pure powder yet but it's not a priority atm. I gotta tell you this thread is a little treasure in terms of information for me, thanks for that. I'd like to add a anecdote of mine, perhaps it might contain some usefull information:

While i do not know what bug exactly im infected with i seem to react very positiviely to antihelmintics and antimalaria supplements, herbs and meds. Mind you i've been suffering chronic health issues ever since a bug bit me in the forrest.

Cistus Incanus tea (big shoutout to @Korven) is something that i've been drinking regulary for 2-3 weeks nowand oh boy that stuff is making stuff surface like crazy. It didn't do much before but i never dosed and used a potency as i do now. It is apparantly a very potent bio-film buster and my symptoms during that time and now only agree to that statement. Dr. Klinghardt and a few lymeguides recommend it. Coudn't get to drink more than 2-3 cups thus far because i'm limited in how much liquid i can drink per day but lyme sufferers even go up to 6 to 8 cups. Rebrewing the leafs 2-3 times for max potency or bring to a boil and let it sit in the hot water for 30 mins works too. DIgestion has markedly sped up aslong as i drink it.

Other than that i've been using some lyme herbs such as cryptolepsis, japanese knotweed, artemesin annua, scutelaria baicalensis and ucaria rhynchophylla.

These things realy helped me to get out of a 3-4 week occurence of crippling fatigue that i started to suffer suddenly last 1-2months or so, so i had to take serious action as a yet another regretful docot visit failed me yet again.

I have my eyes on the colloidal silver you've already mentioned atleast as a mouthwash because i've read a anecdote of it helping a person with severe dental issues caused by bartonella and i swear my dental health is horrible despite all efforts, mouthwashes, toothpastes, supplements, dentists, brushes etc. that i've tried ever since this health decline happened.

I've also came across cinnamon oil which you had mentioned too in this thread and it's ability to cross the blood brain barrier which i guess would be very benefitial with toxoplasmosis? There was hype around it in 2014 for lyme/bartonella/babessia but the information seems limited in terms of anecdotes/testimonials. However the following statement got me intrigued:

"The big triple punch combination of "PMS" (Phenylpropanoids, Monoterpenes, and Sesquiterpenes) found in essential oils is very powerful in addressing many illnesses, injuries, and disease conditions. That is because this combination offers the following:
First, you clean the receptor sites allowing the proper transfer of hormones, peptides, neurotransmitters, steroids, and other intracellular messengers. (The Phenylpropanoids do that.)
Second, you deprogram or erase the wrong information from cellular memory stored in the DNA. (The Sesquiterpenes take care of that.)
Third, you reprogram the cells with the correct information so they can function properly. (The Monoterpenes do this.)
These three classes of chemical components are why essential oils can sometimes affect a healing that is nearly instant and also permanent. What they simply do is to restore the body back to its natural state of balance and health. While a specific oil may have one or two of these three classes of compounds as its predominant chemistry, all the Biblical oils contain some of all of them. This is one secret to their amazing healing abilities."


Now wether that is true or not ceylon cinnamon is recommended on this forum for ammonia anyhow which i think is important when going on a killing spree on thoose bugs. I have to note i react realy well to L-Ornithine which only strengthens me in my approach. I tried 2 drops cinnamon leaf essential oil last weekend and while i didn't notice anything digestion wise i got a killer headache for a few hours but i swear to got i had a insanely good sleep with vivid dreams that night. Powerful stuff. Apparantly harm/toxicity can already occur at 5-6 drops so one drop should already suffice depending on ones sensitivity.


Similar to you i use taurin, choline, glycine and sometimes tudca to offset potential issues because i noticed these herbs realy put a hard strain on the liver. Selenium and Potassium are two things i react nicely too along with lithium and boron so i use them occasionally aswell. I might try adding b-vitamins, q10 and copper again into my protocol.

The copper issue you just mentioned would also be my experience. Pure copper sulfate taken orally dissolved in water was the only thing that actually got rid of my tongue coating (altough only short term sadly). If these bugs are in the mucosa all the way up to the mouth/nose than it might be better to dissolve copper, b-vitamins etc. in water first so it coats all the walls before it hits the stomache. As you said it the effectivness of copper is completly different taken this way than getting it from food. Copper taken this way also seems to noticably reduce my chronic brainfog.

I think i go for 2-3 days off and repeat with my approach again and will cycle that way. My current situation after doing/taking these things is both interesting but also very odd but this post is already to needlesly long and perhaps to offtopic.

Please keep us updated on your progress when your time allows you to do so.
Oh some add on to my needlessly overlong answer the second, ahem:

Lps and consequently inflammation inhibits the mitochondrial side chain cleavage enzyme, so conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone AND to Q10 is disabled.
So there is also the bridge to PUFA by increasing the inflammatory cascade (o6 pufa in tissue and blood).

Q10 is implicated in gum disease and gingvitis, periodontitis etc.
Supplementation has been shown in studies to support healing of gingvitis, curing gum disease.

Also Haidut has posted a thread about aspirin helping gum disease by inhibiting inflammation caused by Pufa.

So low pufa is elementory to conquer gum/tooth disease in my understanding AND
lowering the endotoxin load to inhibit the inflammation.
I try with Q10 100mg now and suck some aspirin, which i already did somewhat against acute pain, i also added some lapodin and squish it between gums before swallowing it (5-10 drops? 2x a day). Lapodin inhibits inflammation caused by lps and NO increase.
I also take about ~16mg K2 kuinone a day, which always remineralized dark spots in teeth in a mater of a few minutes, very cool btw..

Still got some gingvitis like changes going on in my lower jaw, my upper jaw seems fine on that treatment.

In my questionable career of searching medical treatment before i found peat, i got WAY too many x-rays, like surely 12x+ panoramic, 3 sinus + 4 dental cone beam ct and countless single images of teeth.
Last straw in that line was a injection of technetium 99 radioisotope for identification and screening for a bone defect/infection which gave me a huge rad dose after which i got bone edema on my hip bone, shin bone.
This took two years to resolve and tons of niacinamide, thiamine and progest-e & d3.

I did some calculations of every ct scan, x ray and bone scan i did in my life, and if doses are really cumulative then i hit about 24-27 millisieverts in total. It's frightening to be honest.
So i guess i am very lucky to still have teeth and not a rotten jaw by now.
Try the Q10, lapodin, k2 and some mitolipin (side chain cleavage enzyme restoration) and best with some oral progesteron on gums and pregnenolone as stressnon or the 300mg/10 day thing.

Hope this helps, gum disease/bad teeth sucks
 

Korven

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May 4, 2019
Messages
1,133
Cistus Incanus tea (big shoutout to @Korven) is something that i've been drinking regulary for 2-3 weeks nowand oh boy that stuff is making stuff surface like crazy. It didn't do much before but i never dosed and used a potency as i do now. It is apparantly a very potent bio-film buster and my symptoms during that time and now only agree to that statement. Dr. Klinghardt and a few lymeguides recommend it. Coudn't get to drink more than 2-3 cups thus far because i'm limited in how much liquid i can drink per day but lyme sufferers even go up to 6 to 8 cups. Rebrewing the leafs 2-3 times for max potency or bring to a boil and let it sit in the hot water for 30 mins works too. DIgestion has markedly sped up aslong as i drink it.

Nice man ,good to hear it is moving things in a positive direction for you! I had almost forgotten about that cistus incanus tea experiment. For a couple months I religiously drank several cups per day and during that time period I feel like my health got upgraded from 1/10 to at least 5/10. Still not in great shape but better than being stuck in a chair.

Maybe I should suck down a couple of pints, I still have loads of cistus LOL.
 

RealNeat

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Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
2,344
Location
HI
Wonder if pau d arco and fenbendazole would be effective for this. Rife or Zapper tech may also help as i mentioned early on in this thread, but doing gut binders and possibly enemas at the same time would be a good idea.
 
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