Kidney Disease

[Redeye]

Has Ray said anything about it?

 

[Giraffe]

Peat mentioned that keto acids are good for failing kidneys.

KMUD Longevity, transcribed, verified and reposted 4/12/14

Also see Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS).

 

[Mittir]

From Email Advice section :

Kidney
"When there's existing kidney disease, supplementing thyroid and progesterone speeds recovery."

In this weeks KMUD interview he was talking about gut inflammation causing
excess urination and prostate problem. This most likely applies to kidney too.
Gut irritation is source of most health issues. Some people react badly to
nightshade vegetable like potato. Keep that in mind when you experiment
with Potato.

 

[NathanK]

This is something I've wondered about too. I think, as with many organs, FFA are pretty punishing. So would be heavy metals.

Supplementing taurine is one substance that surprisingly helped my creatinine and eGFR labs significantly. Being an amino acid it seemed a little counterintuitive, but taurine plays a part in many renal process'. It really is much more than just another AA in how it operates and metabolized in the body. Here's and informative review on taurine and the renal system. It's a good read. Here's another interesting paper.

Otherwise, what peat has said about kidney's specifically is limited. The interview Giraffe posted is particularly insightful in that context

 

[Sheila]

Hello NathanK
Would you kindly give an idea of your taurine dosing please to see this cause and effect on your creatinine and eGFR levels?
Did you ever use charcoal? Was there anything else important in your recovery? I would be grateful for any insights you can give.

Haidut posted this a while ago Heartburn Drugs (ppi) Linked To Chronic Kidney Disease and I suspect, in some, low stomach acid sets up kidney strain if bacteria can get through the gut into the blood stream quickly. The same would go for endotoxin ingress, hypoglycaemia weakening gut integrity, certainly FFAs, all I know is that the kidneys detest bacterial load and react accordingly. I concur with Mittir, since in my experience the better the gut is, the better the kidneys are. Taurine would certainly have a place in that, for some however it is quite constipating (suggesting other factors have not been addressed).

Once again with kidney disease there is also the iron-inflammation interplay (and the 'anaemia of chronic disease') as posted by Giraffe Assessing Iron Status - Kidney Disease Outcome It seems to me that these other factors might allow proper iron assessment in other diseases where 'anaemia' is identified.

Progesterone and thyroid have their place, but in my experience, chronic kidney disease is very tricky because of all the biochemical interplays and the depleting effects of dialysis on top. Prevention is key.
Sincerely
Sheila

 

[ddjd]

Anyone else had success from taurine for kidney problems?

I heard TMG can help

 

[NathanK]

Hello NathanK
Would you kindly give an idea of your taurine dosing please to see this cause and effect on your creatinine and eGFR levels?
Did you ever use charcoal? Was there anything else important in your recovery? I would be grateful for any insights you can give.

Haidut posted this a while ago Heartburn Drugs (ppi) Linked To Chronic Kidney Disease and I suspect, in some, low stomach acid sets up kidney strain if bacteria can get through the gut into the blood stream quickly. The same would go for endotoxin ingress, hypoglycaemia weakening gut integrity, certainly FFAs, all I know is that the kidneys detest bacterial load and react accordingly. I concur with Mittir, since in my experience the better the gut is, the better the kidneys are. Taurine would certainly have a place in that, for some however it is quite constipating (suggesting other factors have not been addressed).

Once again with kidney disease there is also the iron-inflammation interplay (and the 'anaemia of chronic disease') as posted by Giraffe Assessing Iron Status - Kidney Disease Outcome It seems to me that these other factors might allow proper iron assessment in other diseases where 'anaemia' is identified.

Progesterone and thyroid have their place, but in my experience, chronic kidney disease is very tricky because of all the biochemical interplays and the depleting effects of dialysis on top. Prevention is key.
Sincerely
Sheila

Hi, Sheila. Never saw this until it was brought to my attention. Better late than never? I take RPForum in doses.

@foodandtheworld at the time I had written this I was somewhat early in my experimentation with taurine. I had tried 5g of taurine for maybe 2 and half weeks or until I seemed to hit a saturation point. I knew when I hit it when my stools started getting a little sludgy from excess bile. That was when I stopped taurine or any Bvitamins. I waited almost 3 weeks and my lab results were still the best I've ever seen. Since then I've mainly just tweak to find a good balance and have added other aminos.

Creatinine at 1.03
GFR at 92

If anything my stools were better then--though I don't recall. Instead of issues with things like constipation, my issues have always been more around loose stools or diarrhea. Taurine gave me no discomfort whatsoever, but we are all different.

With my filtration rates and creatinine always seeming so poor, I now wonder if GFR lab is specific enough since I think it becomes less reliable marker over 60dL. Creatinine I will have to look into more as well since I have more muscle mass than most and that can throw off results. Otherwise, it would be hard to see someone with a GFR in the 60's and creatinine topping the range making it to the age of 80. At some point, I'll have to find a nephrologist to just give me a cystatin C test since my current GP won't.

Shiela,

I have used charcoal, but not for the kidneys. As you mentioned, I also believe endotoxin is the core culprit here. Endotoxin is just devastating to the body. And so I have used charcoal for LPS purposes with "okay" results. It never hurt to do it.

One of my theories is that taurine has a profound effect on endotoxin. I recall a study I read where it blocked the negative effects of endotoxin in the liver. That would explain the improvement in liver enzymes, cholesterol, and everything really. It just about doubled my testosterone. Taurine is very rich in those central organs and the brain. More than anywhere else. If they were under stress, then it would only help to replenish their stores.

 

[Bart1]

Hi, Sheila. Never saw this until it was brought to my attention. Better late than never? I take RPForum in doses.

@foodandtheworld at the time I had written this I was somewhat early in my experimentation with taurine. I had tried 5g of taurine for maybe 2 and half weeks or until I seemed to hit a saturation point. I knew when I hit it when my stools started getting a little sludgy from excess bile. That was when I stopped taurine or any Bvitamins. I waited almost 3 weeks and my lab results were still the best I've ever seen. Since then I've mainly just tweak to find a good balance and have added other aminos.

Creatinine at 1.03
GFR at 92

If anything my stools were better then--though I don't recall. Instead of issues with things like constipation, my issues have always been more around loose stools or diarrhea. Taurine gave me no discomfort whatsoever, but we are all different.

With my filtration rates and creatinine always seeming so poor, I now wonder if GFR lab is specific enough since I think it becomes less reliable marker over 60dL. Creatinine I will have to look into more as well since I have more muscle mass than most and that can throw off results. Otherwise, it would be hard to see someone with a GFR in the 60's and creatinine topping the range making it to the age of 80. At some point, I'll have to find a nephrologist to just give me a cystatin C test since my current GP won't.

Shiela,

I have used charcoal, but not for the kidneys. As you mentioned, I also believe endotoxin is the core culprit here. Endotoxin is just devastating to the body. And so I have used charcoal for LPS purposes with "okay" results. It never hurt to do it.

One of my theories is that taurine has a profound effect on endotoxin. I recall a study I read where it blocked the negative effects of endotoxin in the liver. That would explain the improvement in liver enzymes, cholesterol, and everything really. It just about doubled my testosterone. Taurine is very rich in those central organs and the brain. More than anywhere else. If they were under stress, then it would only help to replenish their stores.

Thanks for your post.

what do you think about aspirin? I hear positive and negative things in regards to kidney health

 

[NathanK]

Thanks for your post.

what do you think about aspirin? I hear positive and negative things in regards to kidney health

This is a good question. I am on the side of it being beneficial, but more in the general Ray Peat recommended doses.

A couple years ago my ex (and mother of my child) came down with multiple myeloma with light chain deposition disease, which was progressively destroying her kidneys. Now that she's doing better, one thing ive wanted to ask her oncologist, if i met him, is his opinion on aspirin in such states. Taurine and free amino acids as well. I've read some of the literature, but there isnt much. Maybe later this year.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I came across an article showing similar improvements in eGFR/kidney function as @NathanK described:
Taurine Improves Kidney Function (eGFR, Edema, Hyperuricemia)

 

[Amazoniac]

- Renal Function Can Improve at Any Stage of Chronic Kidney Disease

 

[NathanK]

Thank you for the reads. I'll review then in the coming week. About time taurine has received some attention in kidney research!

 

[Candeias]

Taurine ameliorates chronic streptozocin-induced diabetic nephropathy in rats

"Taurine supplementation reduced total proteinuria and albuminuria by nearly 50%. This treatment also prevented glomerular hypertrophy, preserved immunohistochemical staining for type IV collagen in glomeruli, and diminished glomerulosclerosis and tubulointerstitial fibrosis in diabetic animals. The changes in renal function and structure in taurine-treated diabetic rats were associated with normalization of renal cortical malondialdehyde content, lowering of serum free Fe2+ concentration, and decreased formation of the advanced glycooxidation products, pentosidine, and fluorescence in skin collagen."